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Ga 2:1 Then after a period of fourteen years I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, taking Titus also with me.

Ga 2:2 I went up by revelation, and I laid before them the gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately before those who were respected, for fear that I might be running, or had run, in vain.

Ga 2:3 But not even Titus, who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised.

Ga 2:4 This was because of the false brothers secretly brought in, who stole in to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage;

Ga 2:5 to whom we gave no place in the way of subjection, not for an hour, that the truth of the gospel might continue with you.

Ga 2:6 But from those who were reputed to be important (whatever they were, it makes no difference to me; God doesn`t show partiality to man) -- they, I say, who were respected imparted nothing to me,

Ga 2:7 but to the contrary, when they saw that I had been entrusted with the gospel for the uncircumcision, even as Peter with the gospel for the circumcision

Ga 2:8 (for he who appointed Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision appointed me also to the Gentiles);

Ga 2:9 and when they perceived the grace that was given to me, James and Cephas and John, they who were reputed to be pillars, gave to me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, that we should go to the Gentiles, and they to the circumcision.

Ga 2:10 They only asked us to remember the poor -- which very thing I was also zealous to do.

Ga 2:11 But when Peter came to Antioch, I resisted him to the face, because he stood condemned.

Ga 2:12 For before some people came from James, he ate with the Gentiles. But when they came, he drew back and separated himself, fearing those who were of the circumcision.

Ga 2:13 The rest of the Jews joined him in his hypocrisy; so much that even Barnabas was carried away with their hypocrisy.

Ga 2:14 But when I saw that they didn`t walk uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas before them all, "If you, being a Jew, live as the Gentiles do, and not as the Jews do, why do you compel the Gentiles to live as the Jews do?

Ga 2:15 "We, being Jews by nature, and not Gentile sinners,

Ga 2:16 yet knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but through the faith of Jesus Christ, even we believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the law, because no flesh will be justified by the works of the law.

Ga 2:17 But if, while we sought to be justified in Christ, we ourselves also were found sinners, is Christ a servant of sin? God forbid!

Ga 2:18 For if I build up again those things which I destroyed, I prove myself a law-breaker.

Ga 2:19 For I, through the law, died to the law, that I might live to God.

Ga 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ, and it is no longer I that live, but Christ living in me. That life which I now live in the flesh, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself up for me.

Ga 2:21 I don`t make void the grace of God. For if righteousness is through the law, then Christ died for nothing!"

#72

How about you mae, and bill? you guys ready to go to Ch. 3?

It appears you are anxious to move one but keep adding comments that beckon a response as what follows below. If you want to move on, don’t give me anything to respond to.

Blue I want you and everyone to know that i am not "trying to misrepresent" you by putting words in your mouth.

What? Are you reforming your ways? (I’m just kidding). I realize that you don’t do it intentionally but since you need something to argue against your misunderstandings of my stance is a convenient straw man to topple.

The reason I suggest that you 'separated' the Law into several sections was from previous thread posts. But the point I was making is that the "cherry picking" of "certain laws" to keep hold of, (dietary, big 10, civil, and few others) and rejecting others (sacrificial, priesthood, women wearing pant-suits, and slavery law, separate gardens for different vegetables, ect..) is "double minded" if not pushing 'hypocritical.' To say your under the law, but your not under 'these laws,' is double minded. If one wishes to distinguish the "separation" if the Law into 2 parts "10 in the ARK, and 603 right outside it, and then say that’s the Law, but still only the ceremonial laws are 'done away,' then when a woman wears pants will she then "be outside the vine" and go to hell? After all that was "law."

I’m not cherry picking. I’m just pointing out the self evident distinctions in the law; none of which can provide salvation by taking advantage of God’s wisdom is keeping them.

Obviously my position has been stated over and over, that according to Paul (who only wrote 2/3 of the NT, divinely inspired) hammered away, that 'we're no longer under the law,' and 'if your under the law, your under a curse,' and 'the law was to show you your sinfulness to bring us to Christ, and ONCE we're in Christ, we're no longer under the law.'

I have neither suggested that the saved are under the law, nor that keeping the commandments was a means of earning salvation. But Paul does teach that the saved do fulfill the righteousness of the law, while John says that he who doesn’t keep the commandments is a liar if he says He knows God.

Apparently, not being under the law is something different than not keeping the law. This is something worthy of your consideration, I think. I hope you will be able to resolve that in your mind someday.

And the legalist *(not calling you one) says : "you cant tell a man your not under the law, that’s telling him they can do what they want then." and the NT says "GRACE teaches us to say 'no' to ungodliness, and unrighteousness, and to live upright lives." *(Titus 2:11-13) not the law.

Hmmm, (I use that phrase quite a bit don’t I) by what do we gage what godliness and righteousness are? Mull that over.

By the way; if you don't intend to not call anyone a legalist why bring itup? It seems you are arguing with legalists when non are present, unless of course you are being disigenuous is saying you're not calling me one.

But i don’t want to, be accused of any misrepresentation i submit the following, from your statements. (how else should I read your seperation of the Law(s)

Are we under the law #22)Just one thought to add to this. In order for the law to be holy, just and good it must also necessarily be.

Since it still exists, it behooves us to know why it still exists; what its purpose is. I suggest that that purpose, in what Paul suggested and John affirms, is simply to tell us if what we might do is a sin.

It is apparent that you don't agree with the notion that’s been presented about the separation of the 10 from the 603 even though the 10, though repeated by Moses, were written directly by God. That's your prerogative.

�?If the Ten Commandments, as part of the law of Moses, are not binding, then in your opinion does that mean that we don't need to obey them? Are you willing to own the implications of such a doctrine if that is a correct presentation of what you believe?

�?I do not agree with Hero’s proposition that only the ten were of divine origin while the other 603 were of human origin. But it is obvious that there is a separation between laws. Thematically one can see that there are distinctively ceremonial laws (which include the sacrifices, holy days and the priesthood), health laws, civil laws and moral laws. Apart from these natural separations, there is the fact that most of them were given to Moses via the disposition of angles or ordination of angels in the hand of a mediator. But the ten were different in that they were not entrusted to anyone through inspiration but were written by God himself. Am I the only one who sees significance in that?

Why Saturday #50) It has already been shown in another post that there was a separation between what God wrote and what Moses wrote. What God wrote was put in the ark while what Moses wrote was put in the side of the ark. Paul in his letter to the Corinthians made a distinction between circumcision and keeping God’s commandments; see 1Co 7:19 in a modern version; NKJV or NIV.

Second point I think also we might disagree on is the inclusion of the "10 commandments" as separate from the rest of the Mosaic Law "Ceremonial, and civil, marriage, and others." I’ve stated a couple of times that the law has been "done away" and I speak of the Law, and in the entire Law including the "big 10." And a lot of ppl seem to separate the 613 laws into "Moral, ceremonial, and civil" law traditionally. And say "Christ did away the ceremonial, and civil law, but the Moral law still stands (that the Big 10.) But in the NT writings I haven’t seen a "separation" of the Mosaic Law, in any of the sense, do to several passages. Paul Had to deal with the problem Titus had to be circumcised, and said "if your going to do circumcision, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. You are alienated from Christ, you desire to be justified by the law. You have fallen away from grace." (gal 5:3-4, gal 6:12-15) That’s all 613, for circumcision wasn’t in the "big 10." And many other passages in Romans and Galatians wont post them all, but the common objection is "that’s the ceremonial law, not the moral law (big 10)" and I believe that you referenced this in your last post. (#17) The context of Matthew 5 is clear, Jesus was talking about the Moral Law, commonly known as the Ten Commandments; the ones that God wrote on stone Tablet with His own finger and had Moses put in the Ark of the Covenant; The law God called His covenant.

Here, we will have to agree to disagree. I find that although it is true that the distinction between the big 10 and the rest of the types and shadows is not prominent, it most certainly is made. See my reference to 1 Corinthians 7:19. Couple this with Jesus�?teaching concerning the perpetuity of the Law in Matthew 5:17.

Boy! You really had to do some review. That would have been very good if you had learned from it.

I stand by every by the truth of every statement I made.

Your problem seems to be that you are still, in your mind at least, misrepresenting our stance. The one who is indebted to do the whole law is the one who seeks to be justified by the law. That is not us.

We see the law, as magnified by Christ, as the will of God for us after receiving salvation. It is the outworking of the Spirit in our lives whereby, as Paul put it, we fulfill the righteousness of it.

And I’m sorry that you can’t see the separation in the laws. That is a problem.

Are we done with the rabbit chase? Can we go on NOW?

Funny that during this entire thread you never reveal exactly what law is being talked about by Paul. I will address the particular laws Paul is discussing. First I will set it up with scripture to substaniate the Law of God and the law which Paul is talking about.

The first one and one-half chapters of the book of Galatians describes the Church today. God's people have left the Gospel of Christ. The Gospel is hearing the Spirit of Christ in your heart and walking in the faith of Jesus (Hebrews 4:1-4; Galatians 2:16). The Galatians had stopped listening to the Spirit (Galatians 3;1-3), being led by certain Jews (Pharisees, or literal law keepers - Galatians 2:12-14; Acts 11:2-3; 15:1,5) to keep the law in its outward form, referred to as "works of the law" (Galatians 3:5), "another Gospel" (Galatians 1:5-6) or being "under the law" (Galatians 3:23; 4:21; 5:18). Works of law will put one under the curse of the law (Galatians 3:10; Deuteronomy 27:14-26), which is spiritual death. Being under the law is attractive to the carnal mind (Galatians 4:21). However, to have the law as your head instead of Christ is to remain in bondage to the sin nature (Romans 6:14).

Spiritual death is brought about by keeping the letter of the law (2 Corinthians 3:6). To take the Bible as it reads, trying to do what one thinks it is saying, is keeping the letter of the law. This removes any need for the Spirit of God. History has proven this method does not work. There are many voices, as Christ said (Luke 21:8), professing that they know Christ and the Gospel, but deny the power thereof (2 Timothy 3:2-7) to eliminate sin from an individual's life. From such, turn away.

The law, in its literal form, was given as a school master, or teacher, to bring us to Christ (Galatians 3:23-24). When we come to Jesus, accepting that it is His faith by which we live (Galatians 2:16), we are no longer under the letter of the law (Galatians 3:25), but under grace (Romans 6:14). To be under grace is to have a conscience which is guided by divine wisdom (2 Corinthians 1:12). Simply put, being under grace is hearing and doing what saith the Spirit of Christ, the Holy One (Matthew 7:24; Revelation 1:16; 2:7). Is the law then, abolished? No! May it not be! (Romans 3:31). All this means is that we keep the spiritual understanding of the law in Christ, which is what Paul the Apostle taught (Colossians 1:9-10).

The literal law, including the Ten Commandments, was the first covenant (Deuteronomy 5:1-22; 1 Kings 8:9,21), or the old covenant (Galatians 4:22-25; Hebrews 8:6-10), which gives birth to the bondage of sin. Egypt is a type of this bondage. This covenant was given at Mt. Sinai as a shadow of good things to come (Hebrews 10:1). However, it was not without fault (Hebrews 8:7), in that it could not cleanse the conscience from sin and dead works (Hebrews 9:9,14). Just as God delivered ancient Israel out of literal Egypt, He will deliver us out of spiritual Egypt.

Galatians 5:1-5: Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. 2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. 3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. 4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. 5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

To be under the voice of the Spirit of Christ Jesus is to be in the spiritual understanding of the law in Christ (1 Corinthians 9:21). Our righteousness does not come out of law keeping (Philippians 3:9), but out of the faith of Christ, which is receiving His knowledge, His character, and partaking of His divinity. By doing this, we keep the law in Christ. Galatians 5:6: For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love. Note this verse as quoted with the definition of circumcision and uncircumcision substituted: "For in Jesus Christ neither [keeping the law literally] availeth any thing, nor [being without the law - Romans 2:14,26]; but faith which worketh by love." ALL THE LAW is fulfilled in this one concept (the logos): Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself (Galatians 5:14).

Those who do not want to suffer persecution for the cause of Christ, desire to please their brethren in the flesh (carnal way of thinking) by constraining others to keep the letter of the law (Galatians 6:12-13). Yet they themselves transgress the law. This is the very thing the Pharisees who professed to believe in Jesus were doing (Acts 15:1,5; cf with Romans 2:27-29).

Brethren, if any be overtaken in a fault, you who are spiritual minister to them in meekness and humility (Galatians 6:1). For we are led of the Spirit of Truth, and we are not under the letter of the law (the old covenant). We are to sow to the spirit (teach the spiritual meaning of the letter) and not sow to the flesh (teach the letter of the law - Galatians 6:8).

Galatians 6:14-18: But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world. 15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature; 16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God. 17 From henceforth let no man trouble me: for I bear in my body the marks of the Lord Jesus. 18 Brethren, the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit. AMEN!

Jesus Christ tells us that those who are both doing and teaching the commandments will be greatly rewarded for doing so.

" Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. " (Matt. 5:19)

The Apostle John explains that some who claim to know Him are liars if they do not keep the commandments. As you read the whole book of 1st John it is evident that these commandments are the 10 because John refers to them as having to do with love towards God and love towards your fellow humans. This is exactly what Jesus Christ said in Matt. 22:40.

" He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him." (1 John 2:4)

There are many false teachings about the 10 commandments. Some teach they are done away, and those who keep them are practicing a form of legalism. They may try to use various scriptures like the book of Galatians to prove this. However, by carefully comparing Galatians to the rest of the new testament, one can clearly see that the issues being addressed are circumcision, and that we are justified by faith. Read Acts 15, Romans 6 and Hebrews 11. A careful look at some other scriptures will confirm that the 10 commandments are a necessary part of the code of conduct we must all strive to live by. Allow me to bring to your attention a few examples.

" Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good." (Rom. 7:12)
" For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. " (Rom. 13:9)

There is scriptural evidence to show that the keeping of the commandments not only bears good fruit in this life, but that keeping them (not perfectly because it is impossible) is necessary for eternal life. Jesus Christ even instructed one man to keep the commandments if he would enter into eternal life.

" And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? "
" Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions. Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. " - (Matt 19:16-24)

" And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ." (Revelation 12:17)

" Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. " (Revelation 14:12)"

Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. " (Revelation 22:14)

Question Desi, what is your alterior motive in starting with the book of Galatians for a NT Bible study? Who is the father of confusion?

I thought Mae started the Galatians study? Oh well! I am ready for chapter 3!

hero, do you acutally like a responce, or was that retorical question?

Hello, Bill,

Yes, indeed, I did start this thread about studying our way through the book of Galatians. I've been quite interested, watching the discussion progress.

I've only been observing (rather than participating) for some time now, because one of the folks here was for a time preoccupied with making comments that had a repetitively negative gender slant, and I got a bit bored with that. (He offered us gems of wisdom such as, "men resolve 'conflict' "with considerable ease", due to "the fact is that men's brains are wired different than women's. Men predominantly use one side of the brain while women use both. Men tend to look for the quick fix while women tend to anylize a thing to death. Men go to the store to buy what the went to buy. Women make it a holiday event. LOL.") This person further assessed me as "sensitive", (not in a positive way, I am sure), and referred to my sharing of my testimony "emotional filler", and "irrelevant". He alluded to hormonal differences that contributed to female "mood swngs" (all very interesting, I'm sure, but hardly relevant to a study on the Covenants or Galatians). Anyway, after awhile, I thought it would be more interesting to just observe the discussion for awhile, and see how things progressed without the input of the hormonally- induced sensitivity of shopping-crazed females.

By the way, Bill, I'm really enjoying your comments and insights. I for one am glad you threw your hat into the ring. I hope you do that more often.

In the meantime, I'm going shopping, I think I'll make it a 'holiday event' over in the shoe department.

Mae

P.S. Quotes in blue, courtesy of Blue.

It is scriptural not to give offence, and I see no biblical support where being "right " (even if you are or not) as license to be rude, when talking about the things of God.

Raw pride chases more believers (especially the youth ) and sinners away from God more than anything else on earth . It has a smell even God hates

“We wrestle not against flesh and blood�?

Love-n-Grace

You may be partially right but I believe whole heartedly that Committment to, Boredom of, and lack of Faith in God drives the youth and "sinners" away. We can't brainwash people into believing, committing, and having Faith in God. Rudeness and brainwashing are two wrongs that don't make a right. God calls His sheep, man cannot call God's sheep! If one never hears God call then isn't their Faith in vain?

do you guys wish to continue?

blue from the posts above (review your statements) The reason I suggest that you 'separated' the Law into several sections was from previous thread posts. If I was in error from reading your statements, then I apologize. I would not try to purposely try to misrepresent you, or anything what you have said. I reposted those 'posts' was to show "my reasoning, from what you have said in that you separate the Law, into various sections." Again if I am in error, I’m sorry. But it sure seemed like you did, and that is why I went off on the contention that you do (separate the Law, into different sections)

If my premise is "off" then my conclusions will be "off" also. But that’s what I have to "work with," by what you guys post. If clarification is needed, then PLEASE clarify. Take the time, and confusion, and any hard feelings can be avoided.

well my comment was that you refered to the Law into seperate parts. i was not suggesting that you (personaly) exercised some devine authority to make a denstion of some seperation of the Law, but rather refered to the Law as in seperate parts, or portions. I dont agree, but can understand.

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