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| | From: BillyMo99 (Original Message) | Sent: 5/31/2007 6:15 PM |
Hi - This new thread is a result of a topic raised in the Galatians 1 discussion - Eternal security. Can we lose salvation once we are saved? Hiya bill, if I may, may I put my input on this? Though we may disagree on the position of whether a person can “Lose ‘Eternal/ Everlasting�?Life�?SPAN> I would take the position that something by definition something that’s “Eternal or Everlasting�?is something that “does not ‘end�?�?And with many scriptural references to go with that, but to what you said, if I may�?/SPAN> I am not sure of the logic involved here. Christ was crucifed once for all. The question is how we respond to it. We can accept or reject His freely given gift. It is conditional upon our acceptance and remaining in Him. We can always choose to reject Him. If we do, He is still waiting (like the father in the prodigal son parable) to take us back, but we need to come back to Him, or we die in our sins. In concerning he “prodigal�?son in relation to his father, the point that is often “overlooked�?is that the “son�?(as bad of actions as he did) never “lost his son-ship.�? Even looking ahead in our study of Galatians to Gal 5:4: You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. And this also is a common reference for those that suggest that a person can “lose salvation�?in gal 5. the “fallen from grace�?is a far cry from “losing eternal salvation.�?And if you read the first part of gal 5, (and end part of gal 4 for context) when Paul refers to “falling from grace, he is pointing out “you fall from grace To the Law.�?Nothing in the passages about “salvation, the entirety of the passages in the comparison of law vs. grace. This states that we can become estranged from Christ and fall from grace. See also the parable of the sower and the seeds, where some fell on rocky ground, some among thorns, and some in fertile ground. The word can take root, but die if too shallow, or get choked by the cares of the world. The fertile ground are those who run the race (believe and persevere) unto the end. And though the �?FONT color=#0000ff>those who run the race (believe and persevere) unto the end.�?Not being part of the parable {though parables are a questionable place to get ‘absolute doctrines’}if a seed grows (though in shallow or deep soil,) the fact that the seed grows, it still grows. The “fruit ratio�?may ‘vary�?but the ‘plant�?grows, none the less. Something to consider. I won’t “harp too much�?but the teaching of “losing something that cant be lost�?(by definition) is an oxy-moron. Like the “short, tall guy.�?Or the “tall, short guy�?“the quiet loud horn�?ect. “Everlasting/ eternal Life is not ‘temporary�? Or its “temporal life we receive, in Christ, not eternal life. | ------------------- Hi Desi - Good points, and I apologizing for mixing the sower parable with Paul's race metaphor. I understand that losing everlasting life appears to be an oxymoron, but I guess it depends on how you define everlasting/eternal life. Some see it as an infilling that we receive as Christians, some as our status with God, and some the result of our final judgment in the future (eternal life vs. eternal punishment). What is your perspective on this? In Christ, Bill |
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A. Yes B. No C Dont know D Dont know what to say E Confused |
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Hi Blue! Are you saved? Love-n-Grace
A. Yes B. No C Dont know D Dont know what to say E Confused
The answer is F. It depends on what you mean by saved. If you mean justified, the answer is A, yes. If you mean am I already in heaven the answer is B no.
Like I said, there is an element of salvation that is yet future that is finally fulfilled at Christ's coming. Then shall we ever be with the Lord. You know, the salvation that Jesus said would be the state of those that endure to the end.
When you say you are saved, Do you have: A. faith B. presumption |
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Lol Blue It seems like you prefer to twist questions, place misrepresentation and guile on them, rather than simply answer them. If you have a problem with the term "saved" then take it up with the Bible. It is used alot. When the Holy Spirit bears witness with your spirit that you are a child of God, (Romans 8) you will know, that you know, that you know, that you are saved. And actually, even tho I have a few years to live out here on earth ( should the Lord tarry) I am a citizen of heaven already. Hebrews 12:22 to 24 will help you to see that. It is what Jesus meant when he said "we are in the world, but not of it." Radical faith can appear like presumption to those who don't fully understand it, but all-out faith is the "substance". It is tangible, yet unseen. It manifests in the natural only after you have grasped it in the spirit. Once we mature in faith , we don't see in order to believe, but we believe in order to see". God Bless Love-n Grace |
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L&G,
I honestly don't know why you are saying I am twisting your question which is deceptively unclear. Salvation is much more than what the question represents. You don't seem to buy into the idea that one aspect of it is future. But Jesus always used that future aspect when mentioning "saved". It was invariably link with the words "shall be", and invariably linked to one condition or another; believing, enduring, doing the will of the Father, etc.
The question was a legit question. In your long answer/protest you insist that for you it is A faith. Good. But the true answer can only be determined, where it concerns that future aspect, when Jesus returns. In the mean time I'm content to say that I have the assurance that my past sins were forgiven through Jesus' sacrifice and that God is working in me to will and to do of His good pleasure. Unfortunately I still have a free will and have the capacity to resist if I so choose.
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blue you twist further and you are getting tiring |
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but that is your goal right ? Not to build but to tear down Not to bring unity but division. Yea I am tired of you I confess |
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#96)... When you say you are saved, Do you have: A. faith B. presumption C.) assurance but a better question might be do you know what salvation is? A.) yes B.) no C.) i know what my pastor says. |
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L&G,
But you still love me, right? |
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actually yes Blue but your spirit is wandering in dark places. You think it wise, but it is just pride. May the veil be lifted Love-n-Grace |
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Desi,
but a better question might be do you know what salvation is? A.) yes B.) no C.) i know what my pastor says.
My answer is A yes.
But it seems that to share its future element is considered tearing down by L&G. Go figure.
BTY, I really love you guys. All three of you are in my prayers. |
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#103
L&G,
"but your spirit is wandering in dark places."
Why? For mentioning the way Jesus used the word "saved"?
And thanks for the unnecessary prayer. Maybe you should have instead prayed for my pride to be removed. |
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never to be outdone ... rides blue off into the sunset sigh |
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that will have to be your prayer blue I hope for your sake it is soon God bless Love-n-Grace |
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A some point God will show you it isn't cute anymore blue. It is all about growth ....I guess. Oh well Love-Grace |
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