MSN Home  |  My MSN  |  Hotmail
Sign in to Windows Live ID Web Search:   
go to MSNGroups 
Free Forum Hosting
 
Important Announcement Important Announcement
The MSN Groups service will close in February 2009. You can move your group to Multiply, MSN’s partner for online groups. Learn More
7th Day Adventist Chatroom[email protected] 
  
What's New
  
  Rules and Objectives  
  ***All Message Boards***  
  General  
  Bible Discussion  
  Prayer Requests  
  Recipes  
  Poetry  
  Favorite Verses  
  Inspirational  
  Sabbath School  
  Devotionals  
  Singles Soar  
  Children 4 God  
  Teen Scene  
  Married Life  
  Testimony&Praize  
  Clean Laughs  
  Pictures  
  DailyLiving  
  Body Health  
  Health Zone  
  Natural Living  
  Breaking News  
  Member Info  
  Birthdays and Anniversaries  
  SDA Links  
  General Links  
  Chat Trouble  
  Siggie Fun  
  Games  
  New Members :)  
  TechTips  
    
  
  
  Tools  
 
Bible Discussion : Gifts of the Spirit, are they for today?
Choose another message board
 
     
Reply
 Message 1 of 47 in Discussion 
From: mae  (Original Message)Sent: 8/26/2007 3:41 AM
Hi everybody,
Here's another spin-off from a previous thread, and what I'm asking is whether we can  consider the Gifts of the Spirit as being for us in the Body of Christ today, including the offices of apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, and teachers.  As a scriptural basis for examining  this, I will  quote some texts.  It's a bit of a long run, but worth the read to lay a foundation for any  conclusions.
 
"Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit.  
And there are varieties of effects, but the same God who works through
all things in all persons.
But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good.
For to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit,
and to another the word of knowledge according to the same Spirit;
to another faith by the same Spirit, and to another gifts of healing
by the one Spirit, and to another the effecting of miracles, and
to another prophecy, and to another the distinguishing of spirits,
to another various kinds of tongues, and to another the
interpretation of tongues.
But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one
individually just as He wills". 
1Corinthians 12:4-11 NAS  
 
"And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets,
and some as prophets, and some as evangelists,
and some as pastors and teachers,
for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up
of the body of Christ, until we all attain to the unity of the faith,
and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man,
to the measure of the stature which belongs
to the fulness of Christ".
Ephesians 4:11-13
 
These gifts are very specific in description.  Should we expect to see all of them in operation in our churches today?
 
Mae
 


First  Previous  33-47 of 47  Next  Last 
Reply
 Message 33 of 47 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nicknamedesi56111Sent: 10/22/2007 5:10 AM
cool. sorry again for seemly 'hastely rude' terms. It wasnt meant to sound like it may have. catch you after a bit.

Reply
 Message 34 of 47 in Discussion 
From: maeSent: 10/22/2007 5:24 AM
LOL Desi, I've never thought of you as being rude.
Mae

Reply
 Message 35 of 47 in Discussion 
From: maeSent: 10/29/2007 7:43 AM

Hi Desi,

I have some days off now, so have a bit of time to respond.

I'm a bit puzzled at the apparent conclusion that any utterance by a person with a prophetic or apostolic gifting must necessarily be considered an 'addition to the canon'.  I must say, in all the times I have listened to those who speak the rehma word of the Lord through the Word of Knowledge, Word of Wisdom, or Gift of Prophecy, I have NEVER heard even one of them remotely imply that their utterance should be received as being added to, or in the same class or authority as Scripture. I wonder why this perception exists, when New Testament Scripture teaches that the Church should definitely move in such gifts, while never  promoting the concept of an ever-enlarging Canon. (As you have noted, Scripture says the gospel was given 'once, for all'). The same Book also speaks of the gifts of the Holy Spirit bestowed upon the Church, and describes many instances of God speaking to and through human beings well beyond the twelve apostles, and in fact the Apostle Paul in his admonitions to the church says that he wishes they 'all would prophesy'. Think about it, he said he wished "all" would prophesy!!! This, is from the man who said the gospel was established 'once, for all!!.

Desi, I get the sense you fundamentally disbelieve that there could ever be a human being beyond the 12 apostles ("hand picked" by Jesus) who is able to hear, and communicate God's heart, His intention, through His presently spoken Word. ( Forgive me if I'm mistaken).  I have a bit of difficulty  getting a clear sense of your position, because you have not really been clear as to your denomonational affiliation. The truth is that everybody (including yourself) likely holds some erroneous beliefs hidden within their paradigm of choice. If you have pre-determined that all or many  SDA beliefs are faulty, and approach dialogue with us from that position, it stands to reason that conversation will be a bit difficult because you already think you know what people here believe, and probably won't be able to comprehend to what some of us are actually saying if we contradict your expectations.

Although you say you would not want to 'throw out the baby with the bathwater' I kinda get the sense you are more comfortable with this conservative approach, as opposed to the ongoing task of testing and judging the utterances of those  who claim to speak the "Word of the Lord" for today. (ie, the prophets and apostles).

By the way, Desi, there are presently many different faces to SDA belief. What I mean by that is that not all will necessarily hold similar views of all issues within the denomonational confines. I understand that you may not have previously comprehended the diversity that exists within our group, but in fact there is presently a very wide range of views regarding doctrinal issues amongst the membership. So, this negates a 'one size fits all' approach to attempting to understand the mindset of an individual SDA.

In considering the meanings attached to 'prophesying', I was impressed by the definition in the Amplified Bible, 1 Corinthians 14: verse 1. It describes the meaning of the word 'prophesy' as follows: "Interpret the divine will and purpose in inspired preaching and teaching".

I've been thinking lately, how strange it is that Christians have only One Book to follow, yet have somehow evolved into hundreds of denomonational 'clubs' that hold eachother at arm's length because of their differences.

At some point, before the return of Christ, I really think we all have to make a conscious effort to help answer the prayer of Jesus in John 17, and come together in unity.

Anyway, that's all I have for now.

Blessings,

Mae


Reply
 Message 36 of 47 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nicknamedesi56111Sent: 10/30/2007 6:07 AM

      I'm a bit puzzled at the apparent conclusion that any utterance by a person with a prophetic or apostolic gifting must necessarily be considered an 'addition to the canon'. …�?I wonder why this perception exists, when New Testament Scripture teaches that the Church should definitely move in such gifts, while never  promoting the concept of an ever-enlarging Canon.

      Because the “authority of an apostle�?had and HAS a binding effect over the ENTIRE Church. Being in the 21 century we have the written record of the “apostles doctrine�?*(acts 2:42) from Jerusalem to Rome, to the churches. When Paul gave the “layout for a pastor/ teacher�?in 1&2 Tim that wasn’t Paul’s ‘suggestion�?, or when the apostles preach death, burial, and resurrection as the “gospel�?(acts 2, 3, 10,  rom 1, 1corth 15, ect) that’s a ‘binding doctrine�?of the Church, aka “Canonical.�?SPAN> 

        “IF�?there are true “apostles�?today, and the �?U>true apostles from Jesus Christ�?delivers a “doctrine/ teaching�?how is it then “not as authortive�?as the Apostles of the 1 st century? An Apostle of Christ is still an Apostle of Christ, even 2000 years removed, no?

       Remember the “true Apostles�?spoke for Christ and not of their own innovative. *(john 16, 2tim 3:16, 2pet 1:20-21) and Christ’s personal message through the Apostle John �?I>He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.�?Speaking directly to one ‘church�?at the time.

A True Apostle’s message from God/ Christ is to the Whole Church, not just to the local congregations also.

    I have a bit of difficulty  getting a clear sense of your position, because you have not really been clear as to your denomonational affiliation. The truth is that everybody (including yourself) likely holds some erroneous beliefs hidden within their paradigm of choice.

      Well the ‘PC�?response is “I’m part of Christ’s Church�?and though His Church has ‘split�?many times over the last 2000 years, the core issues are all in agreement from the SDA-Baptist-Presbyterians-Methodists-ect. and we have divided on mainly secondary issues. And human pride playing a major role in that for some reason. But frankly the “congregation�?that I attend is 2 churches, and if I may be blunt they differ in several areas on those secondary issues yet are united again on the primary issues, and through personal bible study I disagree with both of them in a few areas, on those secondary issues, yet won’t go out and “start my own denomination�?about our differences.

   1corth 11:18-19 �?SPAN>For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it. For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.

   There is a mandate to the “men of God to rightly ‘divide�?the Word,�?and ‘to show yourself approved to God, (not man)�?(2tim 2:15)

   Denominational teachings no offence, are bias to their emphasis, and I try not to study Baptist doctrine, Methodist doctrine, or the SDA doctrine, but can ask the questions “why?�?and “how come?�?with the biblical authority of acts 17:11. If I say “im a Baptist�?you can search the ‘Baptist doctrines�?and thus say “you believe this or that�? and never ask the question, ‘what do you believe?�?the same if I say “im a Methodist, or SDA, or JW�? And go down the same road. with the various emphasis on certain doctrines, and I may or may not agree with the ‘stance of the denomination�? on the specific issue.

     If you have pre-determined that all or many  SDA beliefs are faulty, and approach dialogue with us from that position, it stands to reason that conversation will be a bit difficult because you already think you know what people here believe, and probably won't be able to comprehend to what some of us are actually saying if we contradict your expectations.       �?

By the way, Desi, there are presently many different faces to SDA belief�?SPAN>     …So, this negates a 'one size fits all' approach to attempting to understand the mindset of an individual SDA.

    No I have asked in the past on “how united the SDA is�?and gave the reference to the untiy of the thousands of ‘Baptists�?churches, in America, so I don’t take *(assume) that all SDA hold ‘rank and file�?beliefs per a ‘SDA doctrinal statement of belief�?for example. I would assume that all are ‘free thinkers�?and as such I can thus ask the questions on the various doctrines. I DO ASSUME *(and its by default) by the title of the name of one’s church �?B>SEVENTH-Day Adventist�?that there will be a natural tendency to “lean toward�?the Sabbath day observance. How “strict, or loose�?one’s belief is will vary *(I assume) but the observation is usually a “given�?by title. 

    Just as the title “LA Weight Loss�?would not infer ‘doughnut shop�?one can safely assume that the title in itself bears some meaning, of such.

    The �?B>Methodist�?tend to “have a method�?for almost everything, and they almost do, per personal experience. And so-on.

   …�?and in fact the Apostle Paul in his admonitions to the church says that he wishes they 'all would prophesy'. Think about it, he said he wished "all" would prophesy!!! This, is from the man who said the gospel was established 'once, for all!!. (Jude, not Paul, but minor correction.)   …�?

      In considering the meanings attached to 'prophesying', I was impressed by the definition in the Amplified Bible, 1 Corinthians 14: verse 1. It describes the meaning of the word 'prophesy' as follows: "Interpret the divine will and purpose in inspired preaching and teaching".

      We will disagree on the meaning of the phase “I wish you would all prophesy�?from 1corth 14, concerning that ‘prophesying�?also can simply be preaching or “bring forth the word of God�?SPAN>  and NOT always “bringing forth the Word FROM God�?and both paul, and peter say “you guys should be teachers, but are children and not able to ‘digest meat,�?but still ‘need mother’s milk�?due to immaturity. (1corth 3, heb 5, 1pet 2)

     And that is a consistent application for the rest of the NT that “limit�?the apostleship office, and “prophet�? Going back to a true Apostle/ Prophet “Word FROM God�?has a binding effect for the entire Church, not just �?I>for those guys, then.�?For example the statement �?He that hath an ear, let him hear what the SPIRIT SAITH UNTO THE CHURCHES.�?/FONT>

 

Thank you for writing back. And I do also wish and hope for john 17’s “unity�?but I fear personal preferences are sometimes too hard for many to break.

I found a photo, that I thought said a lot.  Take care.!

 


Reply
 Message 37 of 47 in Discussion 
From: dav71sdaSent: 10/31/2007 7:17 AM
Yes, Spiritual Gifts are for today. They will not stop until Jesus comes to take us home.
                                                 Dave

Reply
The number of members that recommended this message. 0 recommendations  Message 38 of 47 in Discussion 
Sent: 10/31/2007 8:05 AM
This message has been deleted by the author.

Reply
 Message 39 of 47 in Discussion 
From: SeekingTruth4Sent: 10/31/2007 3:13 PM
Hiya Dav,
I totally agree.
The primary reason for the gifts of the Holy Spirit is to grow the church of Christ, that task hasnt finished yet so the gifts are still needed, after Jesus returns none of them will be needed and will pass away.

Desi,
My personal belief and i think you will find the view of near all SDA's is,

The Holy Bible is the Word of God, from start to finish and is the only book we need to get to know God.

We also believe that there is a lot more to God than whats been written in the Bible, it doesnt contain absolutely everything about God, thats impossible. So we do not limit God to only the Bible but we also acknowledge that if God wants to speak to a church though a person, for whatever reason, He will and has done it. Does this change in any way the authority of the Bible, no it doesnt.

To me it doesnt add up to believe that God in the first 100 years finished all His contact with the church through the gifts of the Holy Spirit, knowing that the church is just starting and there is at least another 1900 yrs to go to get to today. Thats 1900 yrs of God holding back and not giving us direct guidance even though Paul says we should constantly pray for it. But if we ask for it we will not receive it?? To me it doesnt add up.

God bless you all,
Seek.

Reply
 Message 40 of 47 in Discussion 
From: maeSent: 11/2/2007 4:32 AM
Hi Desi,
I will get back to you; I had a post all done a couple of days ago,  and then the font size went all weird and so teeny tiny (that no-one could possibly read it) and I couldn't figure out how to make it look reasonable so I deleted it.  Then I had to work the next three days and haven't had time to try again.  I'll have another go at it on the weekend coming up!
Mae

Reply
 Message 41 of 47 in Discussion 
From: love-n-graceSent: 11/2/2007 5:39 AM

Amen Seek ! and Hi Desi,

We serve a living God. With all respect Desi, I do judge all current manifestations of the Holy Spirit by the "Canon".

By that, I mean that I would discard a prophecy or act (of a spiritual nature) if it was not in line with the Holy Bible.

The last book in our canon, Revelation, is believed to have been written about 95 a.d. Now, if God so loved the world as to go to the trouble He did to save us, do you really think He stopped talking or caring about us in 95 a.d? Did God have nothing to say regarding planet earth after the year a.d 95? Think about it, did He not have an opinion about the 6 million Jews killed by Hitler, or the other millions by communist Russia? Did God have nothing to say about the martyrs of the Dark Ages? Or about the hairs of our heads as Jesus taught us?

I think of Huss and Jerome, and millions of others killed for proclaiming the name of Jesus. I believe God still speaks, and to confine and deny any word from Him since a.d.95 , I would think would qualifiy as “quenching the Spirit�? Paul tells us not to do that!!

God Bless

Love-n-Grace

 


Reply
 Message 42 of 47 in Discussion 
From: SeekingTruth4Sent: 11/2/2007 2:04 PM
Hiya everyone,
We have a small passage that God has given us regarding the church in the very last days.
 
(niv) Joel 2:28 - `And afterward, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your old men will dream dreams, your young men will see visions.
 
(niv) Joel 2:29 - Even on my servants, both men and women, I will pour out my Spirit in those days.
 
That passage tells me there will be lots of prophets about, in effect every local church would have a group of prophets, as it was all the way thru the Bible and shown in this passage,
 
(niv) 2 Kings 2:1 - When the LORD was about to take Elijah up to heaven in a whirlwind, Elijah and Elisha were on their way from Gilgal.
(niv) 2 Kings 2:2 - Elijah said to Elisha, "Stay here; the LORD has sent me to Bethel." But Elisha said, "As surely as the LORD lives and as you live, I will not leave you." So they went down to Bethel.
(niv) 2 Kings 2:3 - The company of the prophets at Bethel came out to Elisha and asked, "Do you know that the LORD is going to take your master from you today?" "Yes, I know," Elisha replied, "but do not speak of it."
 
(niv) 2 Kings 2:4 - Then Elijah said to him, "Stay here, Elisha; the LORD has sent me to Jericho." And he replied, "As surely as the LORD lives and as you live, I will not leave you." So they went to Jericho.
(niv) 2 Kings 2:5 - The company of the prophets at Jericho went up to Elisha and asked him, "Do you know that the LORD is going to take your master from you today?" "Yes, I know," he replied, "but do not speak of it."
(niv) 2 Kings 2:6 - Then Elijah said to him, "Stay here; the LORD has sent me to the Jordan." And he replied, "As surely as the LORD lives and as you live, I will not leave you." So the two of them walked on.
 
(niv) 2 Kings 2:7 - Fifty men of the company of the prophets went and stood at a distance, facing the place where Elijah and Elisha had stopped at the Jordan.
 
We are warned that the devil will use signs and wonders to try and deceive believers but we cant let that cause a fear and shun everything, God will still be working with the church so supernatural events are going to happen and i personally expect to see it.
 
God bless everyone,
Seek.

Reply
 Message 43 of 47 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nicknamelove2obeySent: 11/3/2007 4:37 AM
We have been blessed to speak and live as Jesus lived when He walked on earth
by the power of the Holy Spirit.  The same spirit that because of our lack of faith,
we did not know that was always in us.  We just refused to give into Him.  We are more
comfortable sinning as we have done so all our life prior to meeting Jesus and giving our life
to Him to save and norture.
 
We have to accept that God is the creator and the bible is part of His creations. 
God existed before the bible.  The issue is that with out the bible, God does not
exist. The bible is His testimony, His life and it is the best way for us to
know that it is Him and not someone else who is doing things.    
The bible is the word of God and His word give us testimony of all that He is. 
So we know that Jesus is God not only by His own words but as well because
His testimony echos all that the bible says about God. 
 
When a person is blessed by the presence of the Holy Spirit in their life, he or she will do things that echo the things that Jesus does.  In other words, we as human can not do these things and only God can in a person.  When I realize this, I accepted Ms. White's writtings not to be her own but God's.  As is the bible, His word and not the words of man. 
 
God bless. 

Reply
 Message 44 of 47 in Discussion 
From: maeSent: 11/4/2007 4:29 AM
Hi everybody,
Very well said, Seek.  I couldn't agree more, that when God says He will pour out His Spirit on ALL flesh, He means what He says.  That short passage (Joel 2:28-29)  exposes a couple of erroneous views presently held by some Christians: one, that God does not speak to or through people  today, and two, the concept of the 'one-man-show' prophetic act, where one person is placed on a pedestle and proceeds from there to control all those under their influence. As you noted, there should  be "lots of prophets".  (And I believe that there indeed are).   With numerous prophetic voices in each church community and in the worldwide Body of Christ,  mentorship, accountability, and balance are provided  to those who operate in this gift. 
It is sadly true that  many Christians operate from a fear-based  mindset when it comes to the supernatural, and this causes them to disregard the genuine along with the  counterfeit.
Mae

Reply
 Message 45 of 47 in Discussion 
From: yosaku4Sent: 11/5/2007 6:24 PM
The deity of Jesus of Nazareth was hard for me to accept for a long time...but a Jewish guy who Believed in Jesus as the Son of God told me to keep my nose in the book.  When ai read that Jesus, knowing all things, specifically, that He "came from God and went [was going] to God."  my faith found a perfect passage to settle on.
 
If He was from God, well, He definitely is made of the same stuff as God!
Plus he was going to God!
 
Like the old statement says "Do you desire Eternity? ...Then, squander not time, for it is the stuff that Eternity is made of!"
 
((uh oh, my treatise on the twelve stones on the High Priests breastplate and the two shoulder stones comes to mind...))
 
Blessings and it sure is nice to be able to share a little here!
 
*yos*

Reply
 Message 46 of 47 in Discussion 
From: yosaku4Sent: 11/7/2007 9:09 PM
With regards to love2obey's last line in paragraph three of missive fourty-three:
 
So we know that Jesus is God not only by His own words but as well because
His testimony echos all that the bible says about God
 
here are three verses that helped me get a handle on Jesus of Nazareth, the King of the Jews, being God as well!
 
Now before the feast of passover, when Jesus knew that His hour was come that He should depart out of this world unto the Father, having loved His own which were in the world, He loved them unto the end.
 
And supper being ended, the devil having now put into the heart of Judas (Praise forIscariot (man of Kerioth[the city]), Simon's [son], to betray him;
 
Jesus knowing that the Father had given all things into his hands, and that He was come from God, and went to God;
 
He rises from supper, and laid aside His garments; and took a towel and girded himself.
 
from John chapter thirteen the first four verses (((yosaku4)))

Reply
 Message 47 of 47 in Discussion 
From: yosaku4Sent: 11/9/2007 6:37 PM
oops... actually these last three posts are in reference to the last sentence in that paragraph, the one that reads ,"
So we know that Jesus is God not only by His own words but as well because His testimony echo(e)s all that the bible says about God."
 
*yos*
 
And the Word was made  flesh and dwelt among us... (from John's Gospel chapter one verse fourteen)

First  Previous  33-47 of 47  Next  Last 
Return to Bible Discussion