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| | From:  bluej_x_ (Original Message) | Sent: 2/16/2008 5:30 PM |
Ga 3:15 Brothers, I speak like men. Though it is only a man`s covenant, yet when it has been confirmed, no one makes it void, or adds to it.
Ga 3:16 Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. He doesn`t say, "To seeds," as of many, but as of one, "To your seed," which is Christ.
Ga 3:17 Now I say this. A covenant confirmed beforehand by God in Christ, the law, which came four hundred and thirty years after, does not annul, so as to make the promise of no effect.
Ga 3:18 For if the inheritance is of the law, it is no more of promise; but God has granted it to Abraham by promise.
Ga 3:19 What then is the law? It was added because of transgressions, until the seed should come to whom the promise has been made. It was ordained through angels by the hand of a mediator.
Verse 15:
Covenants, according to Paul, are stable once made. No modifications can be made to them nor can they be annulled.
Verse 16:
According to Paul, the particular promises spoken to Abraham were exclusive to Abraham and to his seed, singular, Jesus Christ.
Verse 17:
Paul is connecting the particular promises to a particular covenant.
That covenant was confirmed beforehand in Jesus, and was made 430 years before the "law" was given, the law has no effect on that covenant one way or another. That covenant remains in effect independent of the "law" that was given 430 years later.
There are two places where God mentions the word covenant to Abraham, Gen 15 and Gen 17. But there are many promises that God made to Abram/Abraham. The first one was in Gen 12:7, "Unto thy seed will I give this land:"
In Gen 15 God’s promises that Abram would have an heir from his own flesh and that His descendants would be as the stars of heaven for multitude. Abram believed and was declared righteous for believing, verses 1-6 (technically a covenant only because God covenants Himself in all His promises), and the covenant to deliver the Promised Land from Egypt to the Euphrates (essentially the same as the promise made in Gen 12:7) to Abram’s descendants after being afflicted 400 years in a land in which they would be strangers, see Gen 15:18.
Gen 17 speaks of another covenant God makes with Abram. God then says Abram would be the father of many nations and changes his name to Abraham. In this chapter God mentions that He would make His covenant with Abraham and his seed after him for an everlasting covenant again mentioning the land (essentially a repetition of the promise in Gen 12:7 and Gen 13:15, etc.) and establishes circumcision as Abraham’s and his descendants part of that covenant. God then changes Sarai’s name to Sarah and promises that she would be the one to give Abram the promised son.
Later God makes another promise to Abraham after nearly offering Isaac in sacrifice.
Ge 22:15 - ¶ And the angel of the LORD called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time,
Ge 22:16 - And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son:
Ge 22:17 - That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;
Ge 22:18 - And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.
This is a reiteration of previous promises that we all can rejoice in since we, non ethnic Jews, are included in these promises. In fact, in what is literally referred to as a covenant, there are only a few promises that are mentioned; inheritance of the land, the multitude of Abrahams descendents, and Abraham becoming the father of many nations, and the blessing of all the nations of the earth through his seed.
So which covenant was Paul talking about? What is the inheritance Paul was talking about?
Our clue:
Ro 4:13 - For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
Is it the one that Abraham believed and was declared righteous for believing?
Ge 15:4 - And, behold, the word of the LORD came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir.
Ge 15:5 - And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.
Ge 15:6 - And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.
Well, it seems that this is not speaking specifically of the one seed except in the promise of having a son out of his own flesh. I should say though that the promise of the multitude of descendents is certainly part of the promises and covenants Paul is referring to.
I personally think we should understand that all the promises made to Abraham are involved in the covenants Paul is referring to; inheritance of the land, the multitude of Abraham’s descendents, and Abraham becoming the father of many nations, and the blessing of all the nations of the earth through his seed.
Verse 18:
Verse 18 helps us to see that the reference in Paul’s thought is concerning the inheritance which Paul, in Rom 4:13, interestingly amplifies beyond the Middle East to the whole world.
This inheritance is the promise and the covenant that exists apart from the law given 430 later.
Verse 19:
The law was added because of transgression. Transgression of what? Paul says that where no law is, there is no transgression, Rom 4:15.
In a previous post, Hero made the suggestion, to which I agree, that a law existed before Sinai which forbade killing, adultery, and may have included the Sabbath. God made it clear that Abraham kept such a law.
Ge 26:5 - Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.
The law that was introduced was instituted because of the transgression of an already existing law to deal with the transgression. That law Paul alludes to is the sacrificial system. |
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Desi, I see wisdom in the advice of love-n-grace and BillyMo. I'll leave alone for now and let posts 61 and 63 go unchallenged.
Perhaps another place and another time. |
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| | | From: mae | Sent: 3/22/2008 7:23 AM |
Hi all, When I suggested a study of the book of Galatians it was honestly in my heart to open the treasure that it contains because I believe it contains a message for our generation, as much as for those to whom it was addressed. This letter was written by the Apostle Paul to a group of believers who frankly alarmed him, because he felt they were "quickly deserting Him who called you.....for a different gospel". Paul believed this was due to "some who are disturbing you, and want to distort the gospel of Christ". Now, if a departure from the purity of the Gospel was possible in the earliest eras of the church, surely we in our generation cannot assume we're immune from the same failing. So, obviously we need the message of Galatians just as much as they did, because the same danger is probably present from sources quite similar to those who were active in the body of believers known as the Galatians. There is simply no misunderstanding Paul's message in his heartfelt exhortation to the church of Galatia. It is succinctly stated in Chapter 2 verse 16: "Nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by faiath in Christ, and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law shall no flesh be justified". If people would be willing to let Scripture speak without striving to bend and twist it into their own denomonational shapes or personal paradigms (sometimes these are correctly described as spiritual strongholds) they would find it is plain, clear, and absolutely beautiful in its consistency. The Word of God can deliver people from all manner of confusion, provided they believe what it says. If believed, just as it is written, the Word of God will establish the kind of unity in the Body of Christ that Jesus prayed for, in John 17. Love and unity among His children has always been in the heart of the Father. P.S. I don't understand why there has been so much reference to the OSAS thing in this thread, as this has done nothing facilitate understanding what the Holy Spirit wants us to glean from the book of Galatians. Just my thoughts, Mae |
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Hi Mae,
I am to blame for mentioning OSAS in this discussion. Sorry. It was a spill over form another discussion from another community where Desi and I participate. Hopefully I can keep them separate from now on.
Would you like to continue the study on Galatians? Would you take the next section? |
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| | | From: mae | Sent: 3/23/2008 7:20 AM |
Hi Blue, I'd have to give some thought as to whether I would like to resume my participation in this thread, because (based on the way it's gone so far) I don't feel justice was done to the subject, and a contentious spirit prevailed so much of the time. It's too bad, because a thoughtful and prayerful study of the book of Galatians has the potential to utterly change one's life. Most, if not all Christians recognize that the message of Galatians is extremely signifigant. For those who are willing to accept its clear statements, it will eliminate confusion regarding the relationship of the Law to New Testament (New Covenant) believers. To answer your question, whether or not I'd like to resume participating in this study, I would say that it largely depends upon whether or not we could approach it as it deserves to be studied. Any genuine study of the Word has to be from the perspective that we will accept what it says without engaging in efforts to diminish the force of what is stated, or twist its meaning. I qualify this, because I don't have any interest in 'dialogue' that that is in reality mere bickering over what a verse means, or doesn't mean. Personally, reading this book literally has rearranged my thinking, and changed my life. It is precious to me. Mae |
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Mae, This example of division within the body of Christ is what the writings of Paul does to the "called out". Because of Pauls writings we do not have a one mind, one God. one church worship system instead we have factions, splits and hundreds of denominations claiming their God is the true God due to their doctine of worshipping. Is this not the intent of Satan to cause chaos and desention within the body of Christ. Though many profess Paul to be the apostle to the Gentile he clearly isn't. When Jesus died upon the cross the partition was torn away which separated Jew from Gentile we all became one people and given the same offer to salvation. That offer was made and commission by Christ to the 12 apostles when He appeared forty 40 days among His apostles. Apostle John's primary job was to his people the Jew and again I say that partition was torn away and the apostle John became a apostle to both Jew and Gentile. In 1 John God's will is plainly laid out without any regulations or rules. The only requirement that I see is that those of us who are called out is a predestined choice not from us but from God. God's will as Jesus notes is that He Jesus not lose one of His given to Him by His Father. In other words whether we sin or not those who have been called out not by their choice never will lose their salvation because we are in the hands of Jesus the Redeemer by and through the will of His Father. Those words cause no division whatsoever instead it conveys to each called out soul that we have Jesus on our side doing the will of God. Being given over to Chirst is not our choice our only choice in the matter is to accept it. Will we sin? Of course we will, can we keep from sinning? No! As long as we are in this fleshly vessel we wil all sin no matter how hard we work not to. Regardless of how much desention Paul creates with his writings we can all take comfort in the writings of the apostle John and his clear and first hand knowledge given to him by Chirst in regard to Gods will for that which has been given over to Christ. Hero |
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Mae, Revelation 2:2 (King James Version)<o:p></o:p> 2I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars: This is part of the letter to the Ephesains. The Ephesians were evangelizers but soon got caught up in defending their faith such as being done here. The Ephesians are called to return to the roots of evangelizim and not defending their faith. We have all become defendings of our faith and their are now many faiths but it is the will of God that his elect return to evangelizing rather than defending faith. Defending faith causes chaos within the body of Christ, this is not our duty. Our duty is t evangelize to the lost. Many should take note to not do their will but the will of God. Hero |
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#72
"Will we sin? Of course we will, can we keep from sinning? No! As long as we are in this fleshly vessel we wil all sin no matter how hard we work not to."
Ro 8:9
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the
Spirit of God dwell in you.
Hero, you echo the sentiments of many. I here this defeatism even in the SDA church.
But I wonder what its effect is. After all, one might think, what's the use in even trying. And what sense can we make in Paul's admonitions to his readers to not sin? Or to John's assurances that those who are born of God can't sin.
I remain hopeful and keep on trying because by seeing what Jesus suffered for my sins it make my own sin detestable to me.
Then there is that comment Paul made about God being faithful to not permit us to be tempted above we are able. And the assurance he gave that is is God who worketh in us.
You are right, we are burdened by the flesh, though it appears not hopelessly. All I would say is don't give up. |
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Oh I forgot to add: Let's not assume all those who try are doing so to add to or earn extra credit toward salvation. If they do so for these reason it is a hopeless endeavor. I would hope that they do so simply as a proper and acceptable response of love toward God and Son.
Joh 14:15
If ye love me, keep my commandments.
1Jo 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
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Blue, It is not sentiment or imploring sentiment of defeatism. If you believe that you can live a sinless life as Christ did then once you attain that perfection do you not elevate yourself to that of being equal to Christ? Because of this idea of being perfect like Christ in this fleshly body you defeat the purpose of Christ. If all could attain perfection as Christ did in flesh we would in essense all become little gods! Scripture shows that this corruptible body (sinful body) will return to the dust of the earth which indicates that perfection of this fleshy body will never happen. By works you are not justified, this means no extra credit for after school sucking up to the teacher. John 6:39 (King James Version)<o:p></o:p> 39And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. <o:p> John tells us, that is me and you, whomever Jesus has called out (church) through the Holy Spirit, He will never let us go and become lost even in death because it's the will of His Father. In our case no matter how hard we try to rebuke the Holy Spirit through sin in days past, Jesus will not ever leave us or let us go. In other words though we might sin we are not lost, far from it because it is Jesus's passion that He do the will of His Father. Does this mean we are to openly and freely sin as we wish, I think not. Remember that because of Jesus's death and resurrection, Grace overcame works and it's through His Grace and doing the will of God that we are not lost to sin. So in effect is this expousing sin or having a defeatist attitude toward being unable to not sin, I think not. All have fallen short of the glory of God it's by Grace and God's will are we able to achieve Redemption. This Redemption is something we don't have work for and this is what all of us must remember. Hero <o:p></o:p> </o:p> |
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Blue,
"It is not sentiment or imploring sentiment of defeatism. If you believe that you can live a sinless life as Christ did then once you attain that perfection do you not elevate yourself to that of being equal to Christ? Because of this idea of being perfect like Christ in this fleshly body you defeat the purpose of Christ. If all could attain perfection as Christ did in flesh we would in essense all become little gods! Scripture shows that this corruptible body (sinful body) will return to the dust of the earth which indicates that perfection of this fleshy body will never happen. By works you are not justified, this means no extra credit for after school sucking up to the teacher."
Hero, it's not about becoming equal to Christ or becoming little gods. Whatever God manages to effect in those He works in both to will and to do of His good pleasure is to His credit alone.
The problem I see with those who think God is not able to keep us from falling assume that those who strive against the inclinations of the flesh, (from who's filth we are admonished to cleans ourselves from), are trying to earn salvation in the flesh not understanding that their desire (will) to do God's pleasure comes from God working in us through the Holy Spirit.
If anything God's working those who are born of Him has the effect that there love for Him is manifested in keeping His commandments which cease to be grievous. |
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but let us not forget realit also, and be practical. God is able to keep us from falling, but we are not. "the buck stops here" is not on God's desk, concerning our actions, but is a testamony concerning our sinful nature that resides in us, until we die. We just now have an ability to resist the sin, through the indwelling H.S. and now are no longer "slaves to sin", but let us not think that we now are now able *(with 2 natures) to live life in a sin laced body, in a fallen world, are able to go through the rest of our lifes without sinning. thats not a "defeatist" but practical. Thats why all the more glory goes to God, for He is not "suprised" when we act the way we do, and still died for our sins *(all of them) and rose again to give us His Eternal/ EVER-LASTing Life, through His resurrection. |
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"We just now have an ability to resist the sin, through the indwelling H.S. and now are no longer "slaves to sin", but let us not think that we now are now able *(with 2 natures) to live life in a sin laced body, in a fallen world, are able to go through the rest of our lifes without sinning."
Practical? It sounds like double talk, Desi.
Let me ask you, if we are now able to resist sin through the H.S. and are no longer "slaves to sin" while living in sin laced bodies why then are we then not able to go through the rest of our lives without sinning?
Johns epistle has a forward focus. It provides for a growing process, "if any man sin, we have an advocate with the
Father, Jesus Christ the righteous", but the message is clear in its intent, "that ye sin not".
I think it would be more sensible to have the same focus as John's epistle and not on being practical/defeatist but instead trusting God to be faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it. It's a matter of faith in God's faithfulness.
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| Besides, we're not talking about any more than trusting God one temptation at a time. |
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