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My Dear Friends and Loved Ones,

My Husband and I came across a forum discussion on "The Old Covenant vs The New Covenant" and as we read each posting, studied further into this subject, and responded to those postings accordingly, we came across this sermon(http://www.amazingfacts.org/Radio/JoeCrewsRadioSermons/tabid/90/ctl/PlayMedia/mid/423/MDID/1849/PID/822/SID/4/SQT/1000/7/Christs-Covenant/Default.aspx) that I feel explains it all (and more) so clearly. It describes how important those Commandments are and how they have NEVER been done away with and that ALL 10 of them are still STRONGLY in effect and that we have to obey them ALL!!!

That's not to say that we are saved BY keeping these commandments (also known as "works"), but rather, that we KEEP His commandments as evidence of our faith and the salvation that we have CHOSEN to accept!!! And that without these "evidences" our faith is non-existent as it says in James 2:14-26 "14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,�?but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. 18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.�?Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.�?And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only. 25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way? 26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also."!!! (emphasis added)

We can't pick and choose which ones to keep and which one's are "not necessary" anymore.... God says "Think not that I am come to destroy the law or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. For verily I say unto you, till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." Matthew 5:17-18. (emphasis added) And this includes the keeping HOLY of the Sabbath!!! "Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven." Matthew 5:19 and also "Whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all." James 2:10

I felt strongly impressed to share these thoughts with you and urge you to NOT take MY word on anything that I have said, but go to the Scriptures and read what it says there!!!

I pray that you all will take these exhortations seriously and not just shrug this off as the "rantings" of a "crazy Seventh Day Adventist extremist"... As much as I LOVE and STRONGLY believe in and support my denominational choice.... There are times I wish I didn't have that "label" so that people wouldn't just shrug me off, or worse, consider me coming from a "cult"!!! I just have a strong love of God in my heart and through my OWN PERSONAL STUDIES have found these exhortations to be true, just and correct and that it is necessary to follow what they are saying!!!

I love you all,
In Christ,
Jenny

hiya AT, dont think we've meet before. Its been a few months since ive dropped in. But the topics in this forum on "OT vs. NT, law vs. grace, works and faith, and 'which day' of the week, etc..", have been 'run around' a LOT over the last year or 2. *(that i know of)

Im a non-SDA, who has had to educate himself concerning the SDA's teachings, and actually ASKING the SDAs here on your guys 'perspective' concerning blibical teachings. And though we will DISagree in several areas, we BOTH would agree on the essentials of the faith. concerning the Identiy/ Nature of God, redemtion, and what Jesus Christ did for us concerning the death, burial, and resurrection.

Though I do NOT *(personally) endorse to others the SDA teachings, but cannot objectivly call the SDA a cult.

but i did want to write back about your post, that the usage of James is not proper, concerning 'salvation', *(if that was your intent), but the whole point in James' letter is practical Christian living. DEnoting that of how the Christians shold act/ live out their lives with others.

A "non-saved Christian" is actually oxy-moronic. But you did post something that JEsus did say, in Matt

"Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

Not that i would encourage other to "do contary to God's will" but those that DO DO that, are still in Heaven , none the less. Rewards is another issue , all together. (1corth 3)

but concerning the Law there is a disagreement of wether or not its Just 10 or all 613, *(side subject) but that being said, james 2:10 does speak about 'breaking the Law into 'sections.'

And the "observing the sabbath" is a BIG deal for the SDA , i understand, in so much, that the denomination places the emphasis in its name, *(my bias) i think thats is unwarnted, but is there. But the "day" issue according to paul is well covered in rom 14, and col 2. where he makes the point to both parties , "if causes your brother to stumbel, dont do it. there are more important issues than days, and foods." (basicly)

does "the woman represesent the church".? Most bible scholars say it represents Israel. I tend to agree, givin Jesus gave birth to the church, and the woman gave birth to Jesus . Go and read it again! Perhaps that is why Islam hates Jews and Chrisians to this day. God Bless

HI Shelter.

I would have to agree with Seek that “chosen people�?would be a wiser choice of words. In all the old testament verses you quote, there was no church yet existing, so at that time those texts had to refer to Israel. Which gets back to my point regarding Rev 12. Now I know and I was raised sda , so I also understand that our unique eschatology gets a bit messed up if the “woman�?is Israel. But it is worth the risk to trust the Holy Spirit to mess us up sometimes.

God Bless

Love-n-Grace

Hi Seek

Good to talk to you again ! It’s been a very busy summer so I haven’t had time to post or chat much. Winter is fast approaching so I get more time off.

I certainly understand the view of the church replacing the nation of Israel. There is a term out there for it called “replacement theology�?which basically means that the New Covenant church ( comprised of both Jews and Gentiles ) replaces the Old Covenant, and because the Jews rejected Jesus as the Messiah, and had Him crucified, that all the promises of the Old Testament prophets are null and void , or called “conditional Prophecy�? The philosophy goes that the Jews didn’t meet the conditions of the contract, so God “replaced�?them with the “church�?and therefore God is no longer obligated to the promises or prophecies to Israel. As you say “food for thought �? Well I was ‘breast fed �?with it , and taught the Jews as a nation were ‘cast off�?forever.

It is a powerful thing to be taught things as an infant and on throughout childhood, as I was.

I am not out to change anyone’s mind, I just want the real truth . The Old Testament prophets all have a common thread. They all prophecy the Jews scattered to the ends of the earth for thousands of years, and that they come home in the last days. That has actually happened in our lifetime. In 1948 they became a nation again (in the Middle east , where they originally were located). If you read Zechariah, it was no surprise to God that they rejected Jesus. He even prophesied the 30 pieces of silver paid to betray Him, yet still He speaks He will restore Israel in the end of Zechariah’s prophecy.

Paul also teaches that Israel is not cast off , but that the church is “grafted in�?to the promises given Israel. (Romans 8,9,10). Don’t get me wrong, I believe that the house if Israel will find their Jesus as we the Gentiles have, but also understand that God chose them as a nation and has not cast them off.

Jeremiah 31:35 -37 says “Thus says the Lord, Who gives the sun for light by day , And the fixed order of the moon and stars for light by night, Who stirs up the sea so that the winds roar; the Lord of hosts is His name. If this fixed order departs From before Me, declares the Lord, then the offspring of Israel also shall cease From being a nation forever. Thus says the Lord, If the heavens above can be measured , and the foundations of the earth searched out below, Then I will also cast off all the offspring of Israel for all they have done�?declares the Lord.

That is a indeed a “conditional prophecy�?, but the conditions of the prophecy as given by God have not yet been met. The ‘fixed order�?has not yet departed, as evidenced by the sun, moon and stars still above in our sky.

We need to be cautious about spiritualizing away statements God has made about literal and physical reality, so as to make them of none effect. I think God was making a very powerful statement regarding His Word and promise to Israel. God’s Word does not fail. I love Him for that .

God Bless you Seek , ( hope to chat more this winter)

Love-n-Grace

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