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Sabbath School : Lesson 9 - "The Sanctuary Attacked" Daniel 8
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From: Texasgal  (Original Message)Sent: 11/23/2004 8:47 PM
Contemporary Comments on the Adult Sabbath School Lesson 9

[Title] The Sanctuary Attacked
[Text] Daniel 8
[Use] November 27, 2004

How rare it is that good news gets reported in the print media these
days. One wonders just how some things DO make news. Take the November
20, 2004 bizarre wire report from Port St. Lucie, Florida. The header
reads "Vanilla Ice may not get wallaroo, goat back." (1)

Vanilla Ice is a rapper whose real name is Robert Van Winkle. Robert's
he-goat and wallaroo, which is a cross between a kangaroo and a wallaby,
were picked up by animal control officials last week. They had escaped
Van Winkle's back yard while he was in California and were found
wandering around Port St. Lucie. A woman reported the animals after the
wallaroo allegedly kicked and scratched her car. By housing the animals,
Robert is breaking a law. Exotic animals like the wallaroo and farm
animals such as the goat are not allowed in Port St. Lucie.

Our Bible study lesson for this week describes two farm-like animals
which, in symbolic language, break a spiritual law and desecrate the
heavenly sanctuary. In Chapter 8, the ram standing by the gate with two
horns, one bigger than the other, is a symbol of the kings of Media and
Persia. The flying Billy goat is identified in Daniel's second prophetic
vision as representing Greece, the Macedonian Empire of Alexander the
Great.

This week the film "Alexander" opened in theatres. It is based upon the
story of Alexander the Great who, with his Greek and Macedonian armies,
foraged an eight-year siege to form an empire unlike any the world had
ever seen before. (2) Oliver Stone's adaptation retells the story of the
Hellenistic period in history, a story you can read with greater
historical accuracy in the Adventist Bible Commentary Volume 4, page
821.

At the young age of 25, Alexander succeeded his father, Philip, to the
throne of Macedonia, a semi Greek state on the Northern border of
Greece. Philip had already united most of the city-states of Greece
under his rule. Alexander set himself the task of conquering the Persian
Empire. Beginning with only 35,000 men, the meager sum of 70 talents in
cash, and but one month's store of provisions, the goat (Alexander)
charged the ram and broke off the ram's 2 horns (conquered the Medes and
Persians). In less than a decade young Alexander established the
greatest empire the world had yet known. His troops hailed him as a god.
With that brief background, it is easy to understand that Alexander is
represented by the great horn in Daniel's vision. At the age of 32
Alexander died of a fever, possibly Malaria, and a "round of hard
drinking." (3)

Because Alexander failed to name a successor, eventually four kings
(four horns in Daniel's vision) take over. Rome's Emperor proves to be
more powerful than the others. Not only did Rome become the next great
empire but also it evolved into a religious pagan and papal system. This
horn cast God's Truth aside and set about to rule everything and
everyone.

Daniel had been able to interpret King Nebuchadnezzar's dream but in
this case he needed an interpreter. God sent a heavenly being to tell
Daniel about what he had seen but that the interpretation was to be kept
secret until the time of the end when the judgment days of wrath would
come and there would be an end to all of this.

Could the release of the film "Alexander" be used to teach prophecy?

How reassuring it is today to realize that our salvation is in Jesus
Christ's death for us on the cross. We may not come to a common
understanding of what every symbol stands for in Daniel's vision.
Whether or not we accurately interpret Daniel's prophecy prior to the
coming of Jesus is not as important as our being personally in
relationship with and dependent upon the King of Kings and Lord of
Lords.

--ck

TO ORDER SHARING SCRIPTURE...

How comfortable are you about using movies to illustrate spiritual
lessons? If not the arts, what do you find helpful to use in making the
truths of Scripture relevant to your unchurched friends? Hopefully these
are the types of discussions you have in your Sharing Scripture class.
Having a thoughtful faith is important to today's culture. If you're
leading out, or you simply want a page full of questions to challenge
your thinking about a Daniel-like faith in God, go to:

www.creativeministry.org/resources/sharingscripture/individual.htm

If you have trouble buying online, call toll-free 1.800.272.4664 and our
customer service personnel will be happy to help.

Paul Richardson, Director
Center for Creative Ministry


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 Message 2 of 2 in Discussion 
From: TexasgalSent: 11/23/2004 8:49 PM
The Sanctuary Attacked
(Daniel 8)
Daniel: Lesson 9

Copr. 2004, Bruce N. Cameron, J.D. All scripture references are to the New International Version (NIV), copr. 1973, 1978, 1984 International Bible Society, unless otherwise noted. Quotations from the NIV are used by permission of Zondervan Bible Publishers. Suggested answers are found within parentheses. The lesson assumes the teacher uses a blackboard or some other visual aid. This lesson can be found at: <url:http://www.GoBible.Org/study/321.php>

Introduction: Two years after his first dream, Daniel dreams he is strolling by the water when suddenly he is face to face with a powerful sheep with two big horns - and no one is there to rescue him. It turns out his dream is not so much about danger, or adventure, but rather about the future. Let's jump into Daniel's dream and see what we can learn about the future!

The Ram


Read Daniel 8:1-3. How would you react if you had this dream? Would you be frightened?


Has Daniel had enough animals in his prior dream, animals much more frightening than this, that he is probably not frightened?


Read Daniel 8:4. Given the context of the past dreams which Daniel either interpreted or had, what are your thoughts about this ram? (It clearly seems to be a world power. An empire that rules other nations.)


The Goat


Read Daniel 8:5-8. What do you think about this goat with the broken horn? (This seems to be another world power that defeats the "ram" empire.)


Gabriel on the Ram and Goat


Let's skip down a bit in this chapter. Read Daniel 8:15-16. Why would Daniel write that someone "looked like a man?" Why not just say, "A man stood in front of me?" (Daniel is telling us that this was not a man. He only looked like one.)


Who is standing in front of Daniel? (Gabriel.)


Who is Gabriel? (Read Luke 1:19. He stands in God's presence.)


Other than speaking to Daniel, who what other important mission has Gabriel handled? (Read Luke 1:26-28. Gabriel brought the message of Jesus coming to Mary!)


Daniel 8:16 reports that a "man's voice" was giving Gabriel directions. Who gets to give Gabriel directions? (God!)


What does this suggest to you about Gabriel's message to Daniel? (When God has an important message, He sends Gabriel. God sent him now to Daniel.)


Read Daniel 8:17. How does Daniel react to Gabriel?
Why? Why is Daniel not afraid of these wild animals, but is afraid of Gabriel? (Either he knew who Gabriel was, or Gabriel must have looked not simply like a man, but like someone from heaven.)


How should we react to Gabriel's message? Should we put great faith in it? (It comes straight from the throne of God!)


What does Gabriel say this dream concerns? (The time of the end.)


Read Daniel 8:18. What is happening here? Is Daniel still dreaming? (Either this is a dream within a dream, or Daniel is coming out of his dream state to listen to Gabriel's explanation.)


Read Daniel 8:19-22. What are these two beasts? (Medo-Persia and Greece.)


Have we seen this before? (You bet! We saw these two empires symbolized in Nebuchadnezzar's dream of Daniel 2 and we saw them in Daniel's dream in Daniel 7.)


Why does God keep repeating the same prophecy? (Have you heard that you need to repeat something three times for your listener to understand? God apparently wants us to understand this. In addition, with each new dream we seem to have more information. God may well be repeating the old information to help us get a better grasp on the new information.)


The Horn


Now let's go back and pick up the rest of the dream. Read Daniel 8:9-12. Have we seen a "horn" power before? (Our study of Daniel 7 revealed the "little horn"(Daniel 7:8).)


Do you think the horn of Daniel 8 is the same as the little horn of Daniel 7?(This puts us in the middle of a great debate. Many commentators believe that the horn of Daniel 7 and 8 are the same, and that they represent Antiochus Epiphanes, a Seleucid king who we previously learned reigned for 11 years (175-164 B.C.). When we studied Daniel 7 (Lesson 7) we found that the timing was all wrong for the little horn to be Antiochus. Not only was Antiochus 500 years too early (coming after the Greek, not the Roman empire), but his reign did not stretch to the end of time.)


Is the timing wrong for Antiochus to be the horn of Daniel 8:9? (The timing of Antiochus fits a lot better in Daniel 8. He came out of the fragmented Grecian Empire (which was the reason he could not be the "little horn" of Daniel 7 - it came out of the fragmented Roman Empire). While I am hardly an expert on this, it seems to me that most commentators who understand the horn of Daniel 8 to be Antiochus, read their interpretation back into Daniel 7 - where Antiochus does not fit - and understand him to be the "little horn" of Daniel 7).


What if we reverse this, can we read our "little horn" understanding of Daniel 7 (that the horn is the Papal phase of the Roman Empire) into Daniel 8? Could the timing fit for Papal Rome?


Re-read Daniel 8:8-9. Does the horn come up out of one of the four winds or one of the four horns? (It is not clear. The SDA Bible Commentary on this text points out that the gender identification in the Hebrew fits better with the winds, not the horns. If the horn arises out of the winds, then this dream looks just like the dreams of Daniel 2 & 7 - that the horn is the Roman Empire which follows Medo-Persia and Greece.)


Let's review again Daniel 8:9-12. Consider the rest of the description of this horn. Does it better match Pagan and Papal Rome or Antiochus? (The description of the power of this horn meets or exceeds the description of the power of the ram and the goat. (For example, the ram is called (v.4) "great" and the goat is called (v.8) "very great." Most translations (but not the NIV) translate the description of the horn (v.9) to be "exceedingly great" (NAS, KJV, NKJV, ASV, RSV). Since the horn is described as being greater than Medo-Persia and Greece, it hardly seems appropriate to conclude the 11 year rule of Antiochus, a minor Seleucid king, is comparable to the Persian and the Greek empires! On the other hand, the Roman empire (in both its pagan and Papal phase, is clearly comparable to the Persian and Greek empires.)


Did Rome (Daniel 8:11) bring low the sanctuary? (The Romans destroyed God's temple in 70 A.D.. Psalms 79:1 refers to the first destruction of Jerusalem and the temple as "defiling" the temple.)


Did Rome (Daniel 8:10) reach to heaven, throw part of heaven's citizens to the ground and trample on them?


Gabriel on the Horn


Read Daniel 8:23-25. We now turn to Gabriel's further explanation of the horn part of the dream for Daniel. Who is the Prince of princes referred to in verse 25? (It must be Jesus.)


Did Rome take a stand against Jesus?


How does this fit the reference in Daniel 8:10 to the horn reaching to heaven and trampling part of the starry hosts? (Rome crucified Jesus. I think this fits both the description of trampling heaven's citizens and standing against the Prince of Princes.)


How does the horn end? (Daniel 8:25 tells us it is destroyed by something other than human power.)



What do you think that means? (The logical conclusion is that it is destroyed by God.)


I understand the argument of those who conclude that the horn power of Daniel 8 is Antiochus Epiphanes, based on the timing (when Greece was fragmenting) and the fact that he sacrificed a pig on the altar of the sanctuary. On the other hand, I believe Rome (in both its pagan and Papal phases) fits the prophecy better. First, the horn of Daniel 7 clearly fits Papal Rome. The parallels between the grand sweep of history in Daniel 2, 7 and 8 make the horn of Daniel 8 the parallel of Rome in Daniel 2 and 7. That, coupled with the description of the horn in Daniel 8 as being as great, or greater than Medo-Persia and Greece, make the Antiochus Epiphanes identification most doubtful. How can a minor king, who ruled for 11 years, be considered a world power or compared to the great empires of Persia and Rome? Antiochus Epiphanes just does not fit the description in the way Rome fits.


The Time


Read Daniel 8:13-14 & 26. How long will this horn have power? (2,300 days.)


What time markers do we have in Daniel 8 to better understand this time period? For example, when does the power of the horn begin and when does it end? (Clearly, it begins after the goat (Greek empire) and it continues (Daniel 8:17)until the time of the end.)


Would a literal 2,300 days, or a prophetic 2,300 days (a day = a year, see Ezekiel 4:6) better fit this time span? (To stretch from the fall of Greece to the time of the end would have to be 2,300 years and not days.)


What happens at the end of this 2,300 years? What does it mean for the sanctuary to be reconsecrated? Is it the end of the world? Is it the beginning of the first judgment in heaven that we discussed last week? Daniel 8:26 tells Daniel it concerns the distant future - but we will work on solving this mystery next week!


Friend, God wants His followers to know that He controls kings and kingdoms and he is willing to share this knowledge with you. Are you willing to take the time to listen and learn?


Next week: The Sanctuary Cleansed.