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Politics/War : New Terror in the skies
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 Message 1 of 31 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nickname°fins°  (Original Message)Sent: 7/20/2004 6:20 PM


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 Message 17 of 31 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameJackieOhMySent: 7/20/2004 9:56 PM
So, the real moral of this story is: if you are Arab and on a flight, do not make eye contact with other Arabs, always exchange friendly glances with non-Arabs, do not use the restroom excessively, even if you have bladder trouble, and, most importantly, never use of gestures of any kind. Oh yes, and fast food bags are a big no-no.
 
 

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 Message 18 of 31 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nickname°fins°Sent: 7/20/2004 9:58 PM
I have had friends of other minority groups have to endure racial suspicion. Like Mexicans who are watched for shoplifting whenever they go into stores. I know it becomes very frustrating and insulting for them.
 
 
Btw Blacks and some whites get profiled too, not only Mexicans.
 
 
 
Yes whites, Just happened to Robby the other day. .
Construction worker profiling it happens so often they have their own term for it
" working dude profiling."
 
The profile is, ruff, gruff ,construction worker in a beat up truck, he must be up to no good.
Robby says if he gets stop in my car, nothing. If he gets stop in his work truck they want to give him the business
 

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 Message 19 of 31 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameJackieOhMySent: 7/20/2004 10:08 PM
Very true, Fins! Blacks have suffered negative profiling for years. I hadn't heard specifically of the "working dude" profile, but it's absolutely true that all of us are automatically profiled by others, for better or for worse.
 
I believe I am usually profiled in a positive light, which is sometimes a complete sham, because sometimes I am up to no good, believe me. I am very aware of my profiling, as I think all of us are on some level.
 
I have no idea if Arabs feel people are suspicious of them in day-to-day life, but on airplanes they must feel like they are profiled with the utmost of suspicion and are under a microscope, which they are.
 
 

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 Message 20 of 31 in Discussion 
From: drew bSent: 7/20/2004 10:17 PM
"So, the real moral of this story is: if you are Arab and on a flight, do not make eye contact with other Arabs, always exchange friendly glances with non-Arabs, do not use the restroom excessively, even if you have bladder trouble, and, most importantly, never use of gestures of any kind. Oh yes, and fast food bags are a big no-no."


I'll re-write this a little...

So the real moral of this story is: if you are [ANY ETHNICITY] and on a flight, do not [engage in suspicious interaction with other passengers], always exchange friendly glances with [other passengers], do not use the restroom excessively, even if you have bladder trouble [it's rude to all of the people you're climbing over to get out of your window and center seats]. and most importantly, never use gestures of any kind. Oh yes, and [bringing] fast food bags [to the restroom with you is] a big no-no. [Come on! That's just gross!!!]

Is that really so hard for any of us to follow?!

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 Message 21 of 31 in Discussion 
From: drew bSent: 7/20/2004 10:21 PM
"What difference does it make if people wouldn't have noticed if white people did the same thing?!

Do I really need to answer that?"


I'd appreciate it if you would...  Perhaps it IS racist that we don't suspect white people, but that doesn't mean that it's racist if we suspect non-white people.

Let's say that I'm faced with a cobra and a bear cub. I may be [justifiably] afraid of the cobra. I may NOT be afraid of the bear cub, because it is cute and cuddly. Let's assume that the bear cub could be a dangerous animal. Does that mean that I'm wrong to fear the cobra?

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 Message 22 of 31 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameJackieOhMySent: 7/20/2004 10:22 PM
I disagree, Drew. I really do believe that other ethnicities can engage in all sorts of bizarre behavior on airplanes and people would not leap to the conclusion that they were about to blow up the plane. I think people are nervous about Arabs in particular on flights, and that nervousness is about potential bombings and hi-jackings.
 
 

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 Message 23 of 31 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameJackieOhMySent: 7/20/2004 10:28 PM
I'd appreciate it if you would...  Perhaps it IS racist that we don't suspect white people, but that doesn't mean that it's racist if we suspect non-white people.

Let's say that I'm faced with a cobra and a bear cub. I may be [justifiably] afraid of the cobra. I may NOT be afraid of the bear cub, because it is cute and cuddly. Let's assume that the bear cub could be a dangerous animal. Does that mean that I'm wrong to fear the cobra?
 
 
Grrr ... you're making me late for an appointment! But you have got to be the best Devil's Advocate on the boards and your challenges are always thought-provoking!
 
Would it be cheating if I answer later? Because I really have to jet! I promise I will give your latest challenge some serious thought. Who knows, I may just bend to your position ... it has been known to happen in the past.

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 Message 24 of 31 in Discussion 
From: drew bSent: 7/20/2004 10:31 PM
Oh, I don't deny that what you're saying is true. However, I think that ALL groups should be encouraged not to engage in bizarre behavior on airplanes. I think that ANY individuals who do engage in bizarre behavior should be investigated and (perhaps) detained.

These men were not simply considered a threat because they were Arabs (at least not by the author of the piece). This is NOT the equivalent of a Beverly Hills Cop stopping a driver for "driving while black". These guys were doing weird stuff, and they were behaving as a group. I believe that people would have been afraid of any group of foreigners who acted in a like manner (if they were Korean or Croatian or Nicaraguan or anything like that). The fact that people are more afraid because the men were Middle-Eastern may be "wrong", but I don't think that changes the fact that what these men were doing was odd and scary.

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 Message 25 of 31 in Discussion 
From: drew bSent: 7/20/2004 10:32 PM
And absolutely, you can answer later.

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 Message 26 of 31 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameJackieOhMySent: 7/21/2004 1:05 AM
Okay, I reread the article, and I am now more convinced than ever that these guys were singled out by the author because they were Arab. She noticed this level of detail about them before they ever boarded the plane:
 
Standing near us, also waiting to pre-board, was a group of six Middle Eastern men. They were carrying blue passports with Arabic writing. Two men wore tracksuits with Arabic writing across the back. Two carried musical instrument cases - thin, flat, 18" long. One wore a yellow T-shirt and held a McDonald's bag. And the sixth man had a bad leg -- he wore an orthopedic shoe and limped. 
 
I wonder if she could give such detailed descriptions about other passengers? And you know it wasn't all in retrospect, either, because she knew that exactly six boarded together and which six.
 
I wasn't on the plane, granted, but in rereading the article I didn't actually see anything all that unusual about their behavior. I have flown with sports teams several times, as well as other people who are flying in groups, and this kind of interaction and congregating where the restrooms are, if their seats are split up, is common.
 
Who knows what they were doing? If it was a sports team, it would have all seemed very innocent, even standing up at the end of the flight. All sorts of people want a jump start on getting off the plane.
 
And, as it apparently turned out, these guys were not up to anything sinister.
 
To me it seems clear that the author, fellow passengers, and airline personnel seemed so alarmed because they were Middle Eastern men, who happened to be behaving like other groups of flyers who hail each other and congregate together during flights.
 
As for your point that bizarre behavior among all passengers should be watched for, I agree. But I don't think it is. I think it would be easy for another group to hijack or blow up a plane as scrutiny is focused on Middle Eastern flyers instead.
 
A point in case: myself. I was flying home for Christmas after 9-11. When I went through security the buzzer went off. In my pocket was a metal sheath. The security guy asked what it was. I pressed a button on the sheath and a three-inch razor sharp straight-edge blade popped out. It was one of those construction doo-hicky (I can't remember what it's called) knives. It's used for slicing through drywall, for instance. I explained the truth, which was that I had bought it for my brother as a Christmas present because he was remodeling his house and I forgot to pack it. The security guy and I both laughed, I put the blade back in my pocket, and proceeded to board the plane. There is no doubt this knife/blade could have slit someone's throat fatally with one swipe. 
 
As for the cobra/bear cub reference: Yes, Arabs have hijacked planes, even before 9-11. But that doesn't mean all Arabs are "cobras," meaning it's a given they're going to hijack the plane. It's probably best to look at all passengers as bear cubs, because imaginary cobras might take your attention away from scrutinizing the bear cubs too closely.

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The number of members that recommended this message. 0 recommendations  Message 27 of 31 in Discussion 
Sent: 7/21/2004 1:31 AM
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 Message 28 of 31 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameJackieOhMySent: 7/21/2004 1:35 AM
I should add that the author basically admits her prejudice in this paragraph (this was long before any congregating began). She might as well replace the word 'aware' with 'racist.'
 
As we sat waiting for the plane to finish boarding, we noticed another large group of Middle Eastern men boarding.  The first man wore a dark suit and sunglasses. He sat in first class in seat 1A, the seat second-closest to the cockpit door.  The other seven men walked into the coach cabin.  As "aware" Americans, my husband and I exchanged glances, and then continued to get comfortable.  I noticed some of the other passengers paying attention to the situation as well. 
 
What 'situation'?
 
As for why they actually used the bathrooms a lot, who knows? I've noticed that a ridiculous number of people use the restrooms repeatedly on planes. There are lines! She failed to mention the activity of the other passengers bathroom-wise.
 
I'll bet that McDonald's bag that poor guy was carrying had his spare Depends in it.  No big surprise it was empty when he exited the bathroom.
 
My point is, it seems people automatically leapt to more sinister conclusions about these people and their activities on a plane sheerly because of their ethnicity.


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 Message 29 of 31 in Discussion 
From: drew bSent: 7/21/2004 1:36 AM
I flew yesterday, Jackie, and my flight was delayed. You would be amazed at how many details I picked up sitting around for 3 hours waiting to board the flight. I could tell you what people were wearing, what they were reading, what they were eating. This is not everybody in the terminal, but it's the one's that caught my eye. I'll tell you, they were mostly white. On the plane, I was watching TV most of the time, but I noticed a couple of (white) passengers who went back and forth many times. I wasn't frightened, but I doubt I'd be frightened if they were Arab, either -- I don't tend to worry much about things I can't control...

I can tell you from when I went to the bathroom, I ignored the people who were sitting in their seats and reading/sleeping/watching TV, but I noticed the ones who were staring straight ahead...

The best way for "bad guys" to get in is to act completely casual -- it makes you blend into the crowd. These guys, whether because of behavior or ethnicity DID NOT blend in, and so the details of their presence were acknowledged and remembered...

"As for the cobra/bear cub reference: Yes, Arabs have hijacked planes, even before 9-11. But that doesn't mean all Arabs are "cobras," meaning it's a given they're going to hijack the plane. It's probably best to look at all passengers as bear cubs, because imaginary cobras might take your attention away from scrutinizing the bear cubs too close"


Cobra does not equal somebody who is going to hijack the plane. Cobra equals somebody you fear because you believe they MAY hijack the plane. Most cobras will never hijack a plane (or will never bite and kill a person). Based on that logic, yes, all Arabs are cobras. Fear of the individual cobra may be unjustified, but it's not irrational. That doesn't mean that when there's a cobra around, you can afford to ignore the potential danger posed by a bear cub...

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 Message 30 of 31 in Discussion 
From: drew bSent: 7/21/2004 1:37 AM
"What 'situation'?"


I agree with you wholeheartedly about that, and I remarked on that line, too, when I read the story.

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 Message 31 of 31 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameJackieOhMySent: 7/21/2004 7:20 PM
These guys, whether because of behavior or ethnicity DID NOT blend in, and so the details of their presence were acknowledged and remembered...

I still think it's because of their ethnicity. I think if it had been me and a group of my friends acting like that, our presence might have been acknowledged and remembered, but I don't think people would have thought we were up to anything sinister, and I sincerely doubt there would be FBI, etc. waiting for us when the plane landed.
 
I could be wrong, though.
 
I'll be sure to test out my theory on my next flight!

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