Yep    and a rose too...

I do not even pay attention....you go girl      

Shalom group

 

Mark,16:14 Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.

16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Luke,7:28 For I say unto you, Among those that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist: but he that is least in the kingdom of is greater than he.

7:29 And all the people that heard him, and the publicans, dclared the Most High righteous, being baptized with the baptism of John.

7:30 But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of against themselves, being not baptized of him. (How much more you think of those who reject Messiah's Baptism).

Acts2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that hath made that same , whom ye have crucified, both King and Messiah.

2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Kepha and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

2:38 Then Kepha said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of the Messiah for the forgiveness of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as our Elohim shall call.

Acts22:12 And one Ananias, a devout man according to the law, having a good report of all the Jews which dwelt there,

22:13 Came unto me, and stood, and said unto me, Brother Saul, receive thy sight. And the same hour I looked up upon him.

22:14 And he said, The Elohim of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth.

22:15 For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard.

22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of .

Rom.6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into the Messiah were baptized into his death?

6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as the Messiah was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Col.2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of the Messiah:

2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of , who hath raised him from the dead.

2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

1Pet.3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us, not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward , by the resurrection of the Messiah:

Now, please show me one scripture on baptism that says its symbolic, a sign you have joined the church, an outward showing that happened on the inside, or just a ritual, or not needed for the taking away  or washing away of your sins.

Shalom

Shalom group

 

Come on now, all the pro baptism folks gave good scriptural references, to show why its needed for salvation. You who are opposed should do the same. If you can't then you should cease telling people that its not required.

 

And please just  use scriptures that are baptismal scriptures and not a hand full of scriptures you've selected that have nothing todo with baptism.

 

Shalom

I am looking for my past posts...

we are dicussing salvation....and it does say that all who call upon His name will be save....John say whosoever believes in Him will be saved..If you are looking for a scripture tha state baptism is not necessary it is not in there to my knowledge.

I am saying that there are many avenues to Salvation....what one does with it is up to them...( their Salvation)

 

Trisha if you stand on just call on His name and believe that cotradicts baptism doth also now save us.But if you put baptism with believing it all fits.If you can contradict another scripture with scripture that is confusion and God is not the author of confusion.It has to line up from begginning to end with no contradictions that's how you know your interpretting the right way. Just believing and confessing contradicts so many other scriptures about being born of water and Spirit but if you turn it around and put being born of water and Spirit with believing and confessing it harmonizes.

romans 1: 13 - for all who should call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

John 3:6 - Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.

believe on the Lord Jesus and you will be saved.

If you believe something you rely on it. If you believe that chair will support you you will sit in it. similarly if you believe Jesus you will do what he says you are to do or you will believe who he sends his apostles - paul was a chief apostle.

Now in Acts 2:38 the apostle said be baptiszed in the name of jesus

In Mathew28:19 Jesus says baptising  in the name of the Father Son and Holy Spirit.

It means if you get baptised in any one you would have complied with what Jesus asks and have shown that you believe by following up with the action of getting baptised either in Jesus name or Father Son and Holy Ghost

Shalom group

 

Excerpts from THE PROOF OF THE GOSPEL, by Eusebius, edited by W.J. Ferrar
Eusebius' quotes referring to Matthew 28:19

 Compiled by Clarke Wideman

The following seven citations of Matthew 28:19 are shown below in the quotations from the Proof of the Gospel (the Demonstratio) by Eusebius. The intent of this excerpt is not to purport accuracy of theology or philosophy of this man, but to glean from his access to the text of Matthew 28:19 in his day and time. For these citations, Eusebius (265 A.D. -- 339 A.D.) as proclaimed Bishop of Caesarea had access to the famed Library of Caesarea and thus references Matthew 28:19 from more ancient manuscripts housed therein than are available to us today.

(1) Book III, Chapter 7, 136 (a-d), p. 157

Whereas He, who conceived nothing human or mortal, see how truly He speaks with the voice of God, saying in these very words to those disciples of His, the poorest of the poor: "Go forth, and make disciples of all the nations." "But how," the disciples might reasonably have answered the Master, "can we do it: How, pray, can we preach to Romans: How can we argue with the Egyptians? We are men bred up to use the Syrian tongue only, what language shall we speak to Greeks: How shall we persuade Persians, Armenians, Chaldaeans, Scythians, Indians, and other barbarous nations to give up their ancestral gods, and worship the Creator of all? What sufficiency of speech have we to trust to in attempting such work as this? And what hope of success can we have if we dare to proclaim laws directly opposed to the laws about their own gods that have been established for ages among all nations? By what power shall we ever survive our daring attempt?"

But while the disciples of Jesus were most likely either saying thus, or thinking thus, the Master solved their difficulties, by the addition of one phrase, saying they should triumph "In MY NAME." And the power of His name being so great, that the apostle says: "God has given him a name which is above every name, that in the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth," He shewed the virtue of the power in His Name concealed from the crowd when He said to His disciples: "Go, and make disciples of all the nations in my Name." He also most accurately forecasts the future when He says: "for this gospel must first be preached to all the world, for a witness to all nations."

(2) Book III, Chapter 6, 132 (a), p. 152

With one word and voice He said to His disciples: "Go, and make disciples of all the nations in My Name, teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you," �?/B>

(3) Book III, Chapter 7, 138 (c), p. 159

But when I turn my eyes away to the evidence of the power of the Word, what multitudes it has won, and what enormous churches have been founded by those unlettered and mean disciples of Jesus, not in obscure and unknown places, but in the most noble cities—I mean in Royal Rome, in Alexandria, and Antioch, through the whole of Egypt and Libya, Europe and Asia, and in villages and country places and among the nations--I am irresistibly forced to retrace my steps, and search for their cause, and to confess that they could only have succeeded in their daring venture, by a power more divine, and more strong than man’s and by the co-operation of Him Who said to them; "Make disciples of all the nations in my Name."

(4) Book IX, Chapter 11, 445 (c), p. 175

And He bids His own disciples after their rejection, "Go ye and make disciples of all the nations in my name."

(5) Book I, Chapter 3, 6 (a), p. 20

Hence of course, our Lord and Saviour, Jesus the Son of God, said to His disciples after His Resurrection: "Go and make disciples of all the nations," and added "Teaching them to observe all things, whatsoever I have commanded you." (1)

Note 1 in W. J. Ferrar’s edition: Matthew 28:19. The verse is quoted thus seven times in the Demonstratio with the omission of the reference to Baptism and the Trinity. Conybeare (Hibbert Journal, i. (1902-3) p. 102), who holds that the reference was interpolated for dogmatic reasons, and was not fully assured in the text till after the Council of Nicea, supports his view from the practice of Eusebius. This is the view of Kirsopp Lake, Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics, ii. 380 and Moffatt, The Historical New Test. 1901, p. 647. The historicity of the words as ipsissima verba is denied by Harnack, Clemen, and J. A. Robinson, Encyclopedia Biblica, art. "Baptism" From the Acts taken literally it would be gathered that apostolic Baptism was simply in the Name of Jesus. �?(Acts 8:12-16; Acts 9:18; Acts 22:16)

(6) Book I, Chapter 5, 9 (a), p. 24

"Go ye, and make disciples of all the nations, teaching them to observe all things, whatsoever I have commanded you." What could He mean but the teaching and discipline of the new covenant?

(7) Book I, Chapter 6, 24 (c), p. 42

"Go ye into all the world, and make disciples of all the nations �?teaching them to observe whatsoever I have commanded you."

Bibliography: Eusebius (265-339) Bishop of Caesarea around 314 was referred to as the son of Pamphilus. He wrote many books, the best known of which is the Ecclesiastical History of Eusebius. Other writings were the Praeparatio, the Demonstratio from which we have The Proof of the Gospel, Quaestiones ad Stephanum, and the Epitome. According to the New Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge, "His time considered him its most learned man."

The above seven referenced quotations of Matthew 28:19 according to Eusebius reflects the verse as he read it from the text in the library in Caesarea. The problem with most translations including the King James Version, as it relates to the text of Matthew 28:19, is that they reflect an erroneous addition of wording of Catholic origin and not the correct words spoken by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. As the verse and the doctrine of the Trinity were being discussed in his day, and having access to the original, Eusebius denounced the reading of Matthew 28:19 with the Trinitarian phrase as the most serious of all the falsifications.

It is time for modern-day Christianity to get back to the actual words of our Lord Jesus and quote the words as they were actually written in the "Everlasting Gospel" of Matthew as:

"Go ye into all the world and make disciples of all the nations in my name" (Matthew 28:19).

"And this gospel of the kingdom shall first be preached in all the world, for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come" (Matthew 24:14). Could the correct rendition of Matthew’s Gospel play a part in the distribution of the Everlasting Gospel? (Revelation 14:6 -- "And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people").

Shalom

Shalom group

 

Compiled by Clarke Wideman

"Shem-Tob, the man who possessed an ancient Hebrew Gospel of Matthew, was a Hebrew and his precious Book dates back to early time. Shem-Tob was not an adherent of Primitive Judaic-Christianity of Acts two, but was of Judaism. He was not overly friendly to Judaic or Jewish-Christianity, i.e., of Acts two. Fortunately, he did not translate this Hebrew Book of Matthew from Latin, the Latin Vulgate, Byzantine Greek, or any other Greek edition of the Gospel of Matthew. His source was from a true copy of Matthew. It was independent of Roman Catholic source. He received it solely from previous Jewish scribes. From that premise we may freely receive it as pure text and authentic." (Dr. Marvin Arnold, The BIBLE, TRINITY, AND MATTHEW 28:19, p.70)

"Shem-Tob’s Hebrew Book of Matthew is the most accurate text of the First Gospel now existing. It underwent a different process of transmission than the Greek, since it was preserved by the Jews, and thus independent from the Catholic Community." (George Howard, Hebrew Gospel of Matthew, Mercer Univ. Press, Georgia, 1995, p.190)

Further, Dr. Arnold writes, The Hebrew Gospel of Matthew does not have the Catholic fabricated titles and phrases: "of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost." The Hebrew Book of Matthew is free from Roman Catholic bias, slants, and Trinitarian interpolations. (George Howard, op.cit. p. 234).

"In summary, Eusebius, a noted historian, inherited from Pamphilus a famous library begun by Origen that could have easily contained the original Hebrew text of Matthew, or if not, a copy of the original Matthew text. Jerome (A.D. 331-A.D. 420) supports this in the following statement recorded in the citation below:"

• Catalogue of Ecclesiastical Writers - "Matthew, who is also Levi �?composed a Gospel �?in the Hebrew language and characters�?Furthermore, the Hebrew itself is preserved to this day in the library at Caesarea which the martyr Pamphilus so diligently collected."

(This library in Caesarea was said to have been destroyed by fire.)

The Proof of the Gospel, by Eusebius as edited by W.J. Ferrar - Note 3 of Book 3, ch.5, p. 137: That Matthew "wrote in Hebrew the Gospel that bears his name" is stated by Eusebius in the Ecclesiastical History of Eusebius, iii. 24. In The Proof of the Gospel, Book 3, ch.7, p. 157, he cited that only one phrase, "in my name" was after, "Go forth, and make disciples of all the nations."

Knupfer, Editor of the Christadelphian Monatshefte - Eusebius among his many other writings compiled a collection of the corrupted texts of the Holy Scriptures, and "the most serious of all the falsifications denounced by him, is without doubt the traditional reading of Matthew 28:19."

Conybeare -- I have, after a moderate search in these works of Eusebius, found eighteen citations of Matthew 28:19, and always in the following form: "Go ye and make disciples of all the nations in my name, teaching them to observe all things, whatsoever I commanded you."

Therefore, we have confirmation that Shem-Tob, F.C. Conybeare, and Eusebius of Caesarea, all verified that Matthew 28:19 did not end as we see it in our KJV. More than likely, it ended with Jesus�?wording more like this: "Go, make disciples of all the nations in My Name, teaching them to keep all things which I have commanded you."

Why shouldn’t we quote Matthew 28:19 from the earliest quotations and renditions available and therefore closer to the actual words of our Lord? Truth versus Catholicism tampering -- It is your choice. Could this be a part of the Everlasting Gospel revealed in the last days? (Revelation 14:6 -- "And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people").

Shalom

Wow Ichmo...thank-you so much for all the research typing and handing us over a excellent post.  I believe he is considered the father of Church history.  (Eusibius)

was it Jerome who tried to translate his works?  I should reallty read up on them...

Wow, I didn't know that Mthew 28:19 was a sham and yet God made sure His truth prevailed anyway. Amazing. I thought that Jesus actually said in the name of the Father , Son , and HolyGhost. That is how great God is, even when the devil tries to alter the word of God God still prevails. His truth is marching onda da dada