I know I may seem hard to get along with maybe but if I may please offer some advice to make debating of a greater tool for each of us.
Stay on topic. I find people launching in huge off topic debates with in a thread that has nothing to do with that topic at all.
If there is a need for a side debate take it to a new thread, stop debating on the other until this one is resolved, then return to debating the origianl topic with at least an understanding over the concept of the other idea.
I realize this sounds confusing, but it is no less confusing then trying to follow some of the debates as the bounce around like a drop of water on hot coals.
Just something to ponder may help, or it may not. Its up to you all. God Bless