|
|
 |
Reply
| | From:  TotalPhillip (Original Message) | Sent: 7/27/2008 8:33 AM |
One who is Born Again; Cannot Sin; | 1 John 3:9 | Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. | | 1 Peter 1:23 | Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. | Jesus Saves Acts 2;38 |
|
|
Reply
| | | From: WOG721 | Sent: 7/29/2008 10:34 PM |
I think we all know we can sin as a born again Christian because we are not perfect individuals I KNOW NO SUCH THING. I KNOW THAT BORN AGAIN BELIEVERS DO NOT CONTINUE TO SIN, AS JOHN TELLS US. TO BELIEVE ANYTHING ELSE WOULD BE TO CALL JOHN A LIAR. SINCE JOHN IS THIS: JN 13:23 One of them, the disciple whom Jesus loved, was reclining next to him. JN 19:26 When Jesus saw his mother there, and the disciple whom he loved standing nearby, he said to his mother, "Dear woman, here is your son," JN 20:2 So she came running to Simon Peter and the other disciple, the one Jesus loved, and said, "They have taken the Lord out of the tomb, and we don't know where they have put him!" JN 21:7 Then the disciple whom Jesus loved said to Peter, "It is the Lord!" As soon as Simon Peter heard him say, "It is the Lord," he wrapped his outer garment around him (for he had taken it off) and jumped into the water. JN 21:20 Peter turned and saw that the disciple whom Jesus loved was following them. (This was the one who had leaned back against Jesus at the supper and had said, "Lord, who is going to betray you?") I PUT MORE STOCK IN HIS WORDS THAN I DO ANY OTHER WRITER OF THE NEW TESTAMENT LETTERS. ANYTHING ELSE WOULD BE FOOLISH. |
|
Reply
| | | From: trisha | Sent: 7/30/2008 1:45 AM |
Okay...now I understand....Thank-you very much...  |
|
Reply
| | | From: rapsson | Sent: 7/30/2008 8:44 AM |
I think we all know we can sin as a born again Christian because we are not perfect individuals I KNOW NO SUCH THING. I KNOW THAT BORN AGAIN BELIEVERS DO NOT CONTINUE TO SIN, AS JOHN TELLS US. TO BELIEVE ANYTHING ELSE WOULD BE TO CALL JOHN A LIAR. SINCE JOHN IS THIS: I think the point WOG is that born again Christians have two natures: the SPIRIT of Christ and the carnal. The SPIRIT wars against the FLESH all the time. Every single the day the Christian must DIE to his flesh. Every single day presents a day of new temptations to succumb to our fleshly desires. Christ didn't wipe out our carnal nature - but He quickened our Spirit and "awakened" a Christlike nature; when we ROBE ourselves in righteousness it doesn't delete who we were and where we came from - we must die to that person every day and live as Christ. To admit that I don't sin (consciously or otherwise) is a sin in itself. |
|
Reply
| |
(Jesus the Christ,) That lest you bwliwve as a child you will not enter the kingdom of heaven. The christion church refers to it's followers as lambs of the church. The lamb being one of the dumbest animals on the face of the earth and will follow shadows. Were Jesus the Christ and the christion church trying to tell humanity that the dumber you are the better christion that you can be. |
|
Reply
| | | From: trisha | Sent: 7/30/2008 6:09 PM |
lambs and turkeys are both dumb....which is dumbest? |
|
Reply
| | | From: WOG721 | Sent: 7/30/2008 11:13 PM |
I KNOW NO SUCH THING. I KNOW THAT BORN AGAIN BELIEVERS DO NOT CONTINUE TO SIN, AS JOHN TELLS US. TO BELIEVE ANYTHING ELSE WOULD BE TO CALL JOHN A LIAR. SINCE JOHN IS THIS: I think the point WOG is that born again Christians have two natures: the SPIRIT of Christ and the carnal. I SUPPOSE THEY NEED TO START BELIEVING PAUL, THEN. GAL 5:19 The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I WARN YOU, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the Kingdom of God. ..... 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. MY SINFUL NATURE IS CRUCIFIED. WHY IS YOURS STILL ALIVE? The SPIRIT wars against the FLESH all the time. ONLY IN THOSE WHO REMAIN CARNAL. WHEN DO YOU EXPECT TO MATURE? HEB 5:13 Anyone who lives on milk, being still an infant, is not acquainted with the teaching about righteousness. But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil. THE IMPLICATION IS THAT MATURE BELIEVERS CHOOSE GOOD, BEING ABLE TO DISTINGUISH BETWEEN GOOD AND EVIL. Every single day the Christian must DIE to his flesh. AND YET YOU REALLY CLAIM YOU DO NOT DO SO, BEING A SLAVE TO YOUR SINFUL NATURE. YOU PROCLAIM THAT NO ONE CAN STOP SINNING, DESPITE THE SCRIPTURES TELLING US THAT NO ONE WHO SINS GETS INTO HEAVEN. Every single day presents a day of new temptations to succumb to our fleshly desires. TEMPTATIONS ARE RECOGNIZABLE AND AVOIDABLE, TO MATURE BELIEVERS. Christ didn't wipe out our carnal nature - but He quickened our Spirit and "awakened" a Christlike nature; READ IT AGAIN. GAL 5:24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. WHAT'S YOUR PROBLEM? when we ROBE ourselves in righteousness it doesn't delete who we were and where we came from - RIGHTEOUSNESS MEANS TO BE IN A STATE OF DOING WHAT IS RIGHT BEFORE GOD. YOU ARE IN A STATE OF LAWLESSNESS, BY YOUR OWN ADMISSION. we must die to that person every day and live as Christ. AND YOU ARE GOING TO TELL ME THE CHRIST GAVE IN TO TEMPTATION EVERY DAY, RIGHT. LOL To admit that I don't sin (consciously or otherwise) is a sin in itself. ONLY IF YOU ARE LYING. I BELIEVE YOU WOULD BE LYING IF YOU MADE THAT CLAIM. I DO NOT BELIEVE YOU EVEN KNOW WHAT SIN IS. |
|
Reply
| | | From: rapsson | Sent: 7/31/2008 9:01 AM |
The christion church refers to it's followers as lambs of the church. The lamb being one of the dumbest animals on the face of the earth and will follow shadows. Bumpa..>I had to laugh at your statement. Sheep are not the dumbest animals on the face of the earth...humans are. |
|
Reply
| | | From: rapsson | Sent: 7/31/2008 9:17 AM |
Paul teaches that the sinful nature and the Spirit are in conflict with one another. This message would mean nothing to the sinful person because they would know no conflict. He is speaking to believers when he says this, believers who are aware of their sinful nature and the contrary desire of the Spirit. If believers automatically walked in the Spirit then there would be no need for Paul to encourage Believers to keep in step with the Spirit. Paul also finishes Gal 6 by saying that believers should not become conceited, provoking and envying eachother. Why would Paul say such a thing, Wog, if conceit, provocation and envy were a thing of the past for Christians? Maybe Galations wasn't written for Believers? Or maybe Christians may well be tempted to sin just like you would be if you had a gun in your home.... |
|
Reply
| |
Wow, I wonder how Paul would have responded to some of these posts? Obviously, he did'nt have it down pact.  Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Romans 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
Romans 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that [it is] good.
Romans 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Romans 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but [how] to perform that which is good I find not.
Romans 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Romans 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Romans 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Romans 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Romans 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Romans 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Romans 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
|
|
Reply
| | | From: WOG721 | Sent: 7/31/2008 9:18 PM |
Paul teaches that the sinful nature and the Spirit are in conflict with one another. This message would mean nothing to the sinful person because they would know no conflict. He is speaking to believers when he says this, believers who are aware of their sinful nature and the contrary desire of the Spirit. WHAT OF THIS? GAL 5:16 So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature. For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law. The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other. If believers automatically walked in the Spirit then there would be no need for Paul to encourage Believers to keep in step with the Spirit. IS HE REALLY JUST ENCOURAGING, THOUGH. HIS WORDS ARE DEFINITE, AS I READ THEM. Paul also finishes Gal 6 by saying that believers should not become conceited, provoking and envying eachother. Why would Paul say such a thing, Wog, if conceit, provocation and envy were a thing of the past for Christians? HE SAYS LET US NOT BECOME CONCEITED. BELIEVERS WHO LIVE BY THE SPIRIT ARE NOT CONCEITED. Maybe Galations wasn't written for Believers? Or maybe Christians may well be tempted to sin just like you would be if you had a gun in your home.... TEMPTATION NEVER LEAVES US. BUT THOSE WHO LIVE BY THE SPIRIT ARE THIS: HEB 5:13Anyone who lives on milk, being still an infant, is not acquainted with the teaching about righteousness. But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil. MILK-FED CHRISTIANS ARE ALWAYS SEEKING TO JUSTIFY THEIR SINS RATHER THAN TRAIN THEMSELVES TO DISTINGUISH BETWEEN GOOD AND EVIL, IN ORDER TO ALWAYS CHOOSE WHAT IS GOOD. |
|
Reply
| | | From: rapsson | Sent: 8/1/2008 10:19 PM |
WOG...your post simply demonstrates that the Christian has two natures and must make the choice to act on the nature and fruits of the Spirit that has been birthed in them from above at the point of salvation (or conversion, whichever word you prefer). One who is born again can BECOME conceited through an active choice of not dying to their carnal desires every single day.  |
|
Reply
| | | From: trisha | Sent: 8/7/2008 12:20 AM |
what such a erroneous statement, How about the unpardonable sin...I think is grieving the Holy Spirit |
|
Reply
| |
Reposted from here Jesus told us to be PERFECT as the FATHER is PERFECT. Nothing is impossible with God Warrior and WITH GOD it definately IS POSSIBLE to be PERFECT on this earth as Jesus IS PERFECT and TOTALLY WITHOUT SIN. To Follow JESUS is to be without sin. To follow Jesus is to be SIN FREE and FREE from SIN. Those who are born of God cannot sin because it is simply impossible to SIN when you are following the LORD and being obedient to HIM. The LORD never leads us into SIN. No person can follow the devil and follow God at the SAME time because God and the devil are walking in totally opposite directions. Those who sin are following the devil and are children of the devil. Gods children do not sin. SIN <<<------------ Those who follow the devil sin because they walk towards sin and fall into temptations constantly They cannot cease from sin. ... <<< left direction <<<<YOU ( chose this day whom you will serve) >>> right direction....>>>> those who follow GOD >>>> CANNOT SIN. THEY ARE SIN FREE because they walk away from sin. You cannot possibly walk left and right at the same time. It is Impossible. Therefore it is impossible to sin when you are truly BORN OF GOD and FOLLOWING and OBEYING HIM. The above example ought to prove it to you well enough if you can understand it at all. 1Jo 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. |
|
Reply
| |
So after conversion you were instantaniously made perfect and never sinned again? You never walked by a homeless man without feeding him and houseing him and clotheing him.For those that know to do good and doeth it not to them it is sin. Either you are the greatest human to live or are in denial. Those scriptures are referring to a condition of the heart. You cannot sin full heartedly without regret and if you can then your of the devil. If it were the other way around then no flesh would be saved. Peter was being a hypocrite after his conversion. Paul proclaimed that he was a wretched man after his conversion. I'm sorry you cannot be wretched and perfect at the same time.Salvation is a process of being perfected over a lifetime. |
|
Reply
| |
Walking past a homeless man without feeding or clothing him is not a sin. Walking past a homeless man without feeding or clothing him when the Father tells you to feed and clothe Him is a sin. The Father does not tell us to feed and clothe everyone we come across, neiter does He tell us to heal everyone we come across. How many homeless people did Jesus walk past? How many sick people did Jesus NOT Heal? He only healed ONE at the pool of Bethesda. He had the ability to HEAL them ALL but the Father did not ask Jesus to heal them ALL. Why NOT ? Did Jesus sin when he walked past some sick people and did nothing about making them better? Did Jesus sin when he offended the hypocrites? James 3:2 For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same [is] a perfect man, [and] able also to bridle the whole body. Jesus offended hypocrites so how can Jesus be perfect? I am saying He was and is and always will be perfect regardless of the FACT that He offended people. |
|
|
|
Free Forum Hosting
Important Announcement
First
Return to DEBATE BOARD