Is God going to have all this mess down here up there ?

 

You have to wonder if that is true.

 

Nothing is said he will fixit between heaven and earth or fixit in heaven.

 

Seem like all the fixin has to be done here.

 

Jesus had to pray to his father to help make his disciples one.

He couldn't do it by himself, but that was down here.

 

 

You're concept of "perfect" is probably not the same as God's.

 

The Greek is "katartismos" (Strongs #2677 from #2675) meaning, complete furnishing, to equip or complete thoroughly. To repair or adjust, to mend or restore, to prepare or make perfect. To make something complete, or make a complete adjustment. To equip completely.

Are we made perfect in Christ?  If this be true then why the need of the need of the fivefold ministry?  To put the disjointed back into the body where they belong... I am talking about Christians now...?

A fracture bone makes it hard for that appendage to work properly... until healed or sometimes popped back into place..is it workable again...being therefore knit together...

Some say we need the fivefold ministry to able to have a perfect church

 or producing perfect people.

 

Well not perfect people but completed in Christ...Very few churches have all five actively working at once, But they to me are like cake ingredients...if one is missing the cake does not seem correct.

People expect their pastors to have it all in him..

the evangelist goes out to get souls...the teacher trains them up in the word of God. The pastor shepherds them and gives them food, The prophet guides the body...the apostle carries the message of Christ between one place to another...of course there are more duties  this is just basic.

that's the main core of the ministry.

 

Are we complete without them as a body church ?

 

Is this a sign of a restored church ?

 

Jude1:3  Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation,

it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort [you]

 that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

 

 

I got a call last year that a wonderful church was dying..I have known this church for 20 years.....it is another state...I could not go up there...My first question was is there a evangelist there...the answer was no.

Second question ...are people witnessing and inviting people to church...probably not...

Has there been a couple of turnovers and the congregation is young..well some

Is ther a true prophet among you....Yes

are you holding bible study and prayer meetings....

Also I find some churches put people into positions because of need which is okay until the person who God puts into position arrives....

If church positions are out of order ,,it makes a difference.

I remember being asked to a baptist church..the pastor was wondeful but there was little growth.  What I saw standing before me was a teacher...not a pastor...  In speaking to him i asked if he will trust someone else in his congregation to preah...He said yes...In a year the place was 30 people compared to the 11 he had...

I see it as being very important for church growth to have them in the body within the church