it is possible what you say is true warrior.  I have been invited as a guest in assembly of God, church of God, Nazerenes...pentecostal churches.( real strict pentecostal..no make-up only dresses and stuff)...Baptist churches..and so forth I never asked  them and they never asked me..I have been to a synogouge  as well and they knew I was a christian.....it all  had to do with Jesus the word and not doctrinal issues...it never came up. My pastor friend for 25 yrs who is 83 yrs old..laughed when I mentioned it saying we are all being tagged like cows.  My pastor friend has been all over..China...India..france..Scotland..Israel..England and also has never run into such as i have...

They also have their own church.....i still never asked in the belief and vice versa...

oh wait a second..I remeber when I was first deeeking a home church...I was sitting up front Just praising the Lord and Amens.  I am half deaf so I never noticed I was the only one with a friend with me.

The pastor after worship went to the podium and said..." it is so nice to see we have some pentecosals with us"....I of course turned around to look at the pentecostals...I could not tell the difference, and then later I found out He was talking about me.!!lol

Ichmo

 

Thought you might like this reference, though you probably already have a hefty arsenal:

 

Since the title "Only Begotten Son" implies that the Son of God had a beginning, it has proven to be a dilemma for Trinitarians. Many Trinitarians, aware of the weakness of modifying "only begotten son" to mean eternally generated by the Father, have used another approach. They claim the Greek word. monogenes, when applied to the Son of God, means the only one of a class or kind instead of only begotten. Hence, they refer to Jesus as the "only Son", not "only begotten Son".

Kittel�s THEOLOGICAL DICTlONARY OF THE NEW TESTAMENT (Vol. 5, pp. 738-741) 1967, a staunch Trinitarian work, observes that monogenes can have a broader meaning than only begotten. However, it goes on to state that when monogenes is used in the New Testament, "It means �only begotten�?in (John 3:16, 18; 1John 4:9; John 1:18 the relation of Jesus is not just compared to that of an only child to its father. It is the relation of the only begotten to the father. In John 1:14, 18; 3:16, 18; 1Jo 4:9 monogenes denotes more than the uniqueness or incomparability of Jesus. In all these verses He is expressly called the Son, and He is regarded as such in John 1:14. In John monogenes denotes the origin of Jesus. He is monogenes as the only begotten.".

In addition to the five foregoing citations in which "only begotten" refers to Jesus. Monogenes is used four other times (Luke 7:ll, 12; 8:41,42; 9:38; Heb. 11:17-18). These four instances confirm Kittel�s observation that in New Testament usage, monogenes solely denotes an only begotten son or daughter John 1:18 points up a further difficulty of monogenes for Trinitarians. According to some of the oldest and best manuscripts

(Example: Sinaitic Codex and Vatican Codex l209), the phrase "only begotten Son" should read "only begotten God." Most scholars recognize the superiority of this reading. Therefore, John 1:18 reads: "No man had seen God at any time; the only begotten God, which is in the bosom of the Father, he has declared him." In harmony with John 1:1, our Lord Jesus Christ is a god separate and distinct from the heavenly Father. Further, he had a beginning.

He is the "only begotten god." The heavenly Father alone was without beginning.

To circumvent this scriptural logic, some Trinitarians arbitrarily change the phrase "only begotten God" to "God only begotten." But as the Trinitarian W. J. Hickie, in his Greek English Lexicon to the New Testament (1963 edition) observes, "It is hard to see why monogenes theos must be translated "the only begotten Son," while monogenes theos, which is given by Westcott and Tregelles after the very oldest MSS, must not be translated the only begotten god, but god only begotten."

From the foregoing, it is clear that monogenes, when used with the Son of God, denotes the Only Begotten Son, who had a beginning. And this nullifies the concept of three Gods, coeternal, without beginning.

#58

He was asking "Why callest thou me good? " Then He made a statement "[there is] none good but one, [that is], God."

 

Interpreting that question to mean "Do you know that I am God?"  is one way of looking at it but it is correct?

 

 

He could also have been saying...

"Don't you know that I am not God?"

or

"Do you think that I am God?"

or

"What is your reason for calling me good?"

 

So unless we know exactly what Jesus was thinking  when He asked the question, How can anyone know what He was really asking or implying?

That question has many ways of looking at it and it can have many answers.

 

Do you call Jesus Good? If so, Why do you call HIM Good?

Shalom group

 

Thanks for the website KiKi40.

I never have too much amunition to fight a battle.

 

Shalom

"In the beginning was the word; and the word was with God, AND THE WORD WAS GOD!" (JOHN 1 V1) The same was in the beginning with God. All thimgs were made by Him, and without him was nothing made that was made."

"Thou art the everlasting word, the fathers only son.

God manefestly seen and heard and heavens beloved one.

It's pretty clear isnt it? Jesus is divine! Bob Wood

We can be sure what Jesus meant when He ask why callest thou me good through the revelation of the HolyGhost. Do you know that I am God is not one way to look at it it is what Jesus meant but you will only know this through the revelation of the HolyGhost.

JLD883,

 

I am what I am by the grace of God, my friend; country and all  And I am fully persuaded that the power of God unto salvation is the gospel of Jesus Christ!  I am likewise fully persuaded that there is no salvation whatsoever in higher criticism.  Be persuaded by your own mind; I stand by my post as written. 

 

The One described in I Timothy 3:16 is the Lord Jesus Christ, despite the errors of revisionist history/theology teaching otherwise:

 

16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

1 Tim 3:16 (KJV)

Other translations read:

16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness; He who was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the spirit, Seen of angels, Preached among the nations, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory.

1 Tim 3:16 (ASV)

16 And confessedly the mystery of piety is great. God has been manifested in flesh, has been justified in [the] Spirit, has appeared to angels, has been preached among [the] nations, has been believed on in [the] world, has been received up in glory.

1 Tim 3:16 (Darby)

16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory.

1 Tim 3:16 (NKJV)

Any exgesis yields our Lord Jesus Christ as the One who was God incarnate, seen of angels at the Annunciation (who also ministered unto Him in His agaony in Gethsemane), Preached among the Gentiles (as witnessed by Paul's epistles), believed on in the world (smong all, Jew of Genile, bond or free, who have believed His report), and received up in glory (cf. His ascension from Bethany) just to name a few.  He came in the volume of the book, taking upon Himself flesh and blood because we are flesh and blood, ina body prepared for Him. 

I'm not interested in "matching wits" nor engaging in strifes of words which only gender strife.  My Bible tells me emphatically that except men believe that Jesus is He ( the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, the first and the last, I AM) such will die in their sins.

Until the Lord Comes!

Bishop Waverly Jackson

Excellent exposition, Bishop!

 

God was manifest in the flesh. The Son of God was not manifest in the flesh. Trinitarians tend to miss that little clarification. When God manifest Himself in the flesh, the relationship He had with that body that He indwelt was Father-Son. In other words, it was the Father's personality that filled Jesus Christ bodily. The Father is the fulness of the godhead. God is the what the Father is. Flesh is what the Son is. Because Jesus was both the Son of God and the son of man, He had both divinity and humanity in His personality. There's no way to separate the two. Indeed, Jesus Himself said that when you see Him, you are seeing the Father. I'm so glad that the Father chose to reveal the true identity of Jesus Christ to me. Jesus is the only God anybody will ever see. That knowledge has set me free indeed!

 

Message 3 of 70 in Discussion

From: <NOBR>JLD883</NOBR> Sent: 9/13/2008 11:06 AM Im glad we share a somewhat Unitarian faith BG.  But I cannot conclude that Jesus pre-existed.  In order to understand the prologue of the Johannine Gospel we must research the "Logos" doctrine to understand exactly what this obscure author is saying.  What we will find is that the Greeks understood the "Logos" as the "mediator or utterance" of God.  The "logos" is not a being (see Philo of Alexandria).  It parallels with the Jewish concept of "wisdom".  If you read Proverbs chapter 8 it will give you a clear Jewish understanding of "wisdom" being personified.  As you can see in verses 23-31 the "wisdom" was with God in the creation.  It was the "mediator" between God and Man.  It is personified with the personal pronoun "I", even though the "wisdom" is not a "being".  Just as to the Greeks (to whom the fourth gospel was written) the "Logos" is not a being.  What the author is portraying is that Jesus is now the "Mediator" between God and Man.  He (Jesus) is the "utterance" of God.

 

Philo and many other Jewish writers adopted and adapted heathen mythologies and philosophies with the Bible. Just because the apostate Philo believed something does not mean that John was speaking of the Logos in John 1:1,2 in the same manner, or that John was confirming the apostate's belief. That John is applying the term "Logos" to the Son of God can be seen from Revelation 19:13, where Jesus is called by the titular name, "The Logos of God." Jesus is the word of God because he is the promised prophet like Moses, who Yahweh foretold: "I will put my words in his mouth, and he shall speak to them all that I shall command him." -- Deuteronomy 18:18.

 

John, of course, is writing retrospectively in John 1:1,2, using the title of the promised one who would speak the words of Yahweh. Nevertheless, he does speak of that one as being in existence before the beginning of the world of mankind -- before the beginning of the world that was made by means of the Logos. (John 1:10) This agrees with John 17:5, where Jesus speaks of the glory he had with the only true God before the world of mankind was made. This, of course, does not mean that Jesus was the only true God whom he was with, but rather gives even more evidence that Jesus is not God. It agree with Jesus words concerning himself, that he descended from heaven, the only man on earth who could make that claim, so that he could tell of heavenly things that he had seen in heaven. (John 3:12,13) Thus, Jesus speaks of ascending to "where" he was before. -- John 6:62.

 

John 1:1,2 does use the word THEOS applied to Jesus, but it should be viewed similar to the usage of forms of the Hebrew EL as used in the Old Testament when applied to others than Yahweh or false gods. This usage is demonstrated by the King James Version rendering in the following verses: Genesis 23:6 (mighty); Genesis 30:8 (mighty); Genesis 31:29 (power); Deuteronomy 28:32 (might); 1 Samuel 14:15 (great); Nehemiah 5:5 (power); Psalm 8:5 (angels); Psalm 36:6 (great); Psalm 82:1 (mighty); Proverbs 3:27 (power); Psalm 29:1 (mighty); Ezekiel 32:21 (strong); Jonah 3:3 (exceeding). Likewise, Jesus, being with the only true God before the world of mankind was made, was not the only true God whom he was with, but he was "mighty" with the only true God, thus the Logos "was" mighty, or "the Logos was a mighty one."

 

This speaks of a past situation, that is, before the world of mankind was made, Jesus "was" mighty. In John 17:5, Jesus asks for that glory that he had with his Father before the world was made. Thus, at the time of this prayer Jesus did not have that glory that he formerly had with his Father. Paul, using the glories of physical bodies, illustrates of two general forms of glory of living beings, the celestial (heavenly) and the terrestrial (earthly). (1 Corinthians 15:40) Jesus had the glory of the celestial before became flesh. It was God who prepared Jesus' body in the womb of Mary (Hebrews 10:5), so that Jesus' flesh would not be born into this world with the crooked condition that is upon mankind due to Adam's sin. (Eccleisiastes 1:13-15; Romans 5:12-19) Thus, instead of being crooked, unjust, as the rest of mankind, Jesus was born into this world in an just condition, the same upright, purely just condition (2 Peter 3:18) as Adam had before Adam sinned. (Ecclesiastes 7:29) As such, he had the unblemished crown of glory as a human. -- Hebrews 2:9.

 

However, unlike Adam, Jesus never fell short of the glory of God due to sin, since he never sinned. (Romans 3:23; 2 Corinthians 5:21; 1 Peter 2:22; 1 John 3:5) The maintained the human glory unblemished -- just (Hebrews 9:14; 2 Peter 3:18), thus, he had the right to live forever as a human. (Leviticus 8:5; Nehemiah 9:29; Matthew 19:16,17; Romans 10:5; Galatians 3:12; ) Jesus, however, did not hold onto that just human flesh but sacrificed his unblemished flesh for the life of the world. (John 6:51; Hebrews 10:10; 2 Peter 3:18) Having sacrificed that flesh, Hebrews 5:7 speaks of the "days of his flesh" as something past. And Peter tells us that he was the just one [in his flesh], who died for the unjust [the world of mankind dying in Adam], and he was "put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit." (2 Peter 3:18) Jesus, therefore, no longer has the glory of the human, but he again has to glory that he prayed to be returned to him in John 17:5, that is, the celestial glory.

 

The mediator is not the same function as the Logos, although the Logos of God is also the Mediator.

 

The mediator between God and Man is is a person, and he is mediator due to fact that he gave up his just flesh as a ransom for all, and has been exalted to the right hand of Yahweh. -- Psalm 110:1; Isaiah 53:12; Romans 8:34; 1 Timothy 2:5,6; Hebrews 7:25; 2 Peter 3:18; 1 John 1:1,2

 

Christian love,

Ronald

 

John 17:3  And this is life eternal,

                 that they might know thee the only true God,

                 and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

 

so Rob..you believe Jesus was a righteous man and had no deity or am I reading you wrong... 

Message 73 of 73 in Discussion

From: trisha Sent: 10/11/2008 4:58 PM so Rob..you believe Jesus was a righteous man and had no deity or am I reading you wrong...

Is this directed to me (Ronald)? At any rate, I will give my answer.

 

I suppose this would depend on what one might mean by "deity." Using the Hebraic background of the word for deity, that is, forms of the word EL, it can mean simply strength, might, power, etc. As such Jesus, before he became flesh was indeed deity with his God and Father. Even while on earth, since he was given special power and might from the only true God, he could have been considered a deity in a sense similar to the way that Yahweh made Moses deity [mighty, a mighty one] to Pharoah. (Exodus 7:1) This does not mean that I believe that while Jesus was human, he was anything more than a human being, as some have claimed that he was and still is both a human being and also the Supreme Being. Jesus is not, never has been, and never will be the Supreme Being. He sacrificed his flesh once for all time for sin. He is not therefore any longer of the terrestrial glory, a little lower than the angels.

 

Since his resurrection, God has given to him the plenitude [Pleroma] of might (theotes -deity) bodily (Colossians 2:9), so that within his body he has full amount of might that is needed to be head of all (excluding the Supreme Being Himself -- 1 Corinthians 15:27). All power and might that Jesus has, however, is that which has been given to him by the only true Supreme Being, the Supreme Being and Father of Jesus. -- Deuteronomy 18:15-22; Psalm 2:8,9; 45:7; 110:1-10; Isaiah 9:7; 53:12; 61:1; Daniel 7:14; Matthew 11:27; 12:28; 28:19; Luke 10:22; John 3:35; 5:19,22,27,30,36; 6:39; 8:28; 10:18; 13:3; 14:10; 17:3,5,8; Acts 2:30-33,36; 5:31; 10:38; Ephesians 1:3,20-23; Philippians 2:9; 1 Peter 3:22; Revelation 1:1; 2:26,27.

 

Jesus never claimed to be the source of his own power and strength, nor did any Bible writer ever claim such for him.

 

Christian love,

Ronald

Oh ia am sorry there.....yes i was asking you...my dyxlexia showing again...lol thanks for the answer...

First I would like to greet you all with a hearty Praise the Lord!!!

 

Next I would like to say keep fighting the good fight and keep the faith.

We are definetly livivng in the last days.  We see the enemy is intensifying his efforts and lies to discredite Gods word and cast doubt. The Bible says that he will decive the world and if it were possible even the elect.

But we know that that cannot happen.

That said I take some issue with this persone that says he can no longer perscribe to the oneness theology that Jesus is God... I hate to bust his or her bubble but you never did believe.

Matthew 11:27 says

All things are dilivered unto me of my Father: and no man knowethe the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to who whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

 

keep on believing brothers and sisters let not the enemy of your souls shake you, he is a lier and the father of lies and has been from the begining. keep your eyes on Jesus and you will recive your reward accordidng to his riches and mercy. Put on the Armor of God for our battle is not of flesh and blood but of pricipalities and powers in the heavenly realms.

 

With Love,

Pochi4x