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DEBATE BOARD : If Jesus is God then why did he failed to convince people that he is God?
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Reply
 Message 1 of 13 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nicknamewala461  (Original Message)Sent: 9/25/2008 1:33 AM
If Jesus is God then why did he failed to convince people that he is God? and died a violent death by his creature.

God almighty cant convince people that he is God?

How can you Christians convince me that Jesus is God?

Mose and Mohammed succeed in convincing people they are prophet of God with millions of followers and died a natural death.



=================================

What does God want from us?

Be kind to fellow human being and animal, in return God will reward
us glorious life in paradise.

How to achieves a happy life in this world and in the hereafter?
What is the purpose of life ?
What does God want from us?
What is the key to Heaven?

What kind of people will enter Heaven {Paradise / Kingdom of God }?

People who believes in God And do good to other human being.

People who will inter heaven those are whom the other human are safe,
safe from his/her tongue and hand.

People who will inter heaven those are respect and honors all human
beings irrespective of their religion,color, race, gender, language,
status, property, birth, profession/job and so on.

People who stand out firmly for justice even as against yourselves or
your parents or your kin and whether it be against rich or poor.

People who have patience, forbearance, generosity, bravery, justice,
truthfulness, modesty, fulfilling the promise, satisfaction with
having only a little .

People who makes peace among the people.

People who say with their mouth what is in their heart.

People who do not shout. speak politely keeping their voice low.

People who honor old people is showing respect to God.

People who suppressed his anger, when he had in his power to show it,
God will give him great reward.

People who feed the hungry and visit the sick, and free the innocent.

People who are patient in adversity and forgive wrongs.

People who are nearest to God, who pardoneth, when he had in his
power  him who would have injured him.

People who persistent in good actions.

People who speak only good words, otherwise remain silent.

People who feed the hungry, to help the afflicted, to lighten the
sorrow of the sorrowful, and to remove the wrongs of the injured.

People who kind to God's creatures, God is kind to him; therefore be
kind to man on earth, whether good or bad; and being kind to the bad,
is to withold him from badness, thus in heaven you will be treated
kindly.

People who admonish his wives with kindness.

People who enjoin one another to do what is good and forbid one
another to do what is evil.

People who love the poor and bring them near you God will bring you
near Him on the Day of Resurrection.

People who has the most complete faith is he/she who has the best
manners.

People who show forgiveness, enjoin what is good and turn away from
the foolish.

People who pardon and forgive other. do you not love that God should
forgive you?

People who choose best words to speak and say in the best possible
way.

People who always speak the truth. shun words that are deceitful and
ostentatious.

People who nice to people who work under your care.

People who willing to compromise.

People who dress modestly.

People who avoid watching dirty movies/ magazine.

People who avoid substance abuse such as drugs, alcohol, and tobacco.

People who earn an honest living are the beloved of God.

People who believe that a white has no superiority over a black nor a
black has any superiority over white except by piety and good action.

You are not better than people (of other races) unless you excel them
in piety.

The best people are those who are most useful to others.

Whoever does not express his gratitude to people will never be
grateful to God

Power consists not in being able to strike another,
but in being able to control oneself when anger arises.

Honor your children and thus improve their manners.

God is merciful to those who show mercy to others.

Every son of Adam makes mistakes and the best of them are those who
repent.

Verily there are heavenly rewards for any act of kindness to a live
animal

Every good act is charity. A man's true wealth hereafter is the good
that he does in this world to his fellows.

the truthfulness lead to righteousness and righteousness lead to
paradise.

God enjoins you to treat women well, for they are your mothers,
daughters, aunts.

A sincere repenter of faults is like him who hath committed none.

How will God Almighty Judge us?

This life is a test for each individual for the life after death. and
the dead will be resurrected for judgment by God.

On the day of judgment God will judge each person on an individual
basis not our religious affiliation ie Islam, Christainty, Judaism,
Hinduism etc . God Almighty knows what's in the heart of man/woman
and will judge us based on our deeds and the choices we make in life.
Remember, one day you will appear before God (The Creator) and you
will answer for your deeds. It is your own conduct which will lead
you to reward or punishment, as if you had been destined therefor.

God says in the Holy Quran 67:2 “It is He who created death and life
for you that He may try you, as to which of you is best in works....

The Holy Quran, 21:47 "On the Day of Judgment, We shall set up scales
of justice so that no one will be dealt with unjustly in any way;
even if someone has an act as small as a grain of a mustard seed, We
will
bring it to account, and sufficient are We to settle the accounts."

The Holy Quran 16:111"The day will come when every soul will serve as
its own advocate, and every soul will be paid fully for whatever it
had done, without the least injustice."

The Holy Quran 4:124."As for those who lead a righteous life, male or
female, while believing, they enter Paradise; without the slightest
injustice."

The Holy Quran 2:62 Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who
follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,-
any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness,
shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear,
nor
shall they grieve.



First  Previous  2-13 of 13  Next  Last 
Reply
 Message 2 of 13 in Discussion 
From: DoveySent: 9/25/2008 7:15 AM
You have to be kidding right???
 
What makes you think Jesus "failed" in having people believe He is God?
 
Why would people believe Mohammad is a prophet from God? Did Mohammad heal anyone?? Did he restore the sight to the blind and heal the cripple??? Did Mohammad rise from the dead?? or.....raise anyone else from the dead???
 
But Most of all did Mohammad die for the sins of the world?????  Doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that Jesus the Son of God is God.
 
DOVEY

Reply
 Message 3 of 13 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameSkyangel�?/nobr>Sent: 9/25/2008 7:22 AM
#1
Jesus never tried to convince anyone that He was God. Jesus never claimed to be God He said He is the SON of God.
 
Jesus is not his own Father any more than you are your own father or mother.
You can become like your father or mother but you can never be them.
You can become one in unity of Spirit with them but that still does not make you  the same person.

Reply
 Message 4 of 13 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameEnd_Time_Warrior7Sent: 9/25/2008 2:36 PM
Well Jesus did not fail I believe He is God. As for the ones that crucified Him, it was written in the Bible that they would not believe and we all know all scripture must be fulfilled. So your question or argument is kinda rediculous.

Reply
 Message 5 of 13 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameIchmoSent: 9/25/2008 5:35 PM
Shalom group
 

The Archeology of The Middle East

The religion of Islam has as its focus of worship a deity by the name of "Allah." The Muslims claim that Allah in pre-Islamic times was the biblical God of the Patriarchs, prophets, and apostles. The issue is thus one of continuity. Was "Allah" the biblical God or a pagan god in Arabia during pre- Islamic times? The Muslim's claim of continuity is essential to their attempt to convert Jews and Christians for if "Allah" is part of the flow of divine revelation in Scripture, then it is the next step in biblical religion. Thus we should all become Muslims. But, on the other hand, if Allah was a pre- Islamic pagan deity, then its core claim is refuted. Religious claims often fall before the results of hard sciences such as archeology. We can endlessly speculate about the past or go and dig it up and see what the evidence reveals. This is the only way to find out the truth concerning the origins of Allah. As we shall see, the hard evidence demonstrates that the god Allah was a pagan deity. In fact, he was the Moon-god who was married to the sun goddess and the stars were his daughters.



The reader must know that Ismael was a Hebrew.

Archaeologists have uncovered temples to the Moon-god throughout the Middle East. From the mountains of Turkey to the banks of the Nile, the most wide-spread religion of the ancient world was the worship of the Moon-god. In the first literate civilization, the Sumerians have left us thousands of clay tablets in which they described their religious beliefs. As demonstrated by Sjoberg and Hall, the ancient Sumerians worshipped a Moon-god who was called many different names. The most popular names were Nanna, Suen and Asimbabbar. His symbol was the crescent moon. Given the amount of artifacts concerning the worship of this Moon-god, it is clear that this was the dominant religion in Sumeria. The cult of the Moon-god was the most popular religion throughout ancient Mesopotamia. The Assyrians, Babylonians, and the Akkadians took the word Suen and transformed it into the word Sin as their favorite name for the Moon-god. As Prof. Potts pointed out, "Sin is a name essentially Sumerian in origin which had been borrowed by the Semites. "

In ancient Syria and Canna, the Moon-god Sin was usually represented by the moon in its crescent phase. At times the full moon was placed inside the crescent moon to emphasize all the phases of the moon. The sun-goddess was the wife of Sin and the stars were their daughters. For example, Istar was a daughter of Sin. Sacrifices to the Moon-god are described in the Pas Shamra texts. In the Ugaritic texts, the Moon-god was sometimes called Kusuh. In Persia, as well as in Egypt, the Moon- god is depicted on wall murals and on the heads of statues. He was the Judge of men and gods. The Old Testament constantly rebuked the worship of the Moon-god (see: Deut. 4:19;17:3; II Kngs. 21:3,5; 23:5; Jer. 8:2; 19:13; Zeph. 1:5, etc.) When Israel fell into idolatry, it was usually the cult of the Moon-god. As a matter of fact, everywhere in the ancient world, the symbol of the crescent moon can be found on seal impressions, steles, pottery, amulets, clay tablets, cylinders, weights, earrings, necklaces, wall murals, etc. In Tell-el-Obeid, a copper calf was found with a crescent moon on its forehead. An idol with the body of a bull and the head of man has a crescent moon inlaid on its forehead with shells. In Ur, the Stela of Ur-Nammu has the crescent symbol placed at the top of the register of gods because the Moon-god was the head of the gods. Even bread was baked in the form of a crescent as an act of devotion to the Moon-god. The Ur of the Chaldees was so devoted to the Moon-god that it was sometimes called Nannar in tablets from that time period.

A temple of the Moon-god has been excavated in Ur by Sir Leonard Woolley. He dug up many examples of moon worship in Ur and these are displayed in the British Museum to this day. Harran was likewise noted for its devotion to the Moon-god. In the 1950's a major temple to the Moon-god was excavated at Hazer in Palestine. Two idols of the moon god were found. Each was a stature of a man sitting upon a throne with a crescent moon carved on his chest . The accompanying inscriptions make it clear that these were idols of the Moon-god. Several smaller statues were also found which were identified by their inscriptions as the "daughters" of the Moon-god. What about Arabia? As pointed out by Prof. Coon, "Muslims are notoriously loath to preserve traditions of earlier paganism and like to garble what pre-Islamic history they permit to survive in anachronistic terms."

During the nineteenth century, Amaud, Halevy and Glaser went to Southern Arabia and dug up thousands of Sabean, Minaean, and Qatabanian inscriptions which were subsequently translated. In the 1940's, the archeologists G. Caton Thompson and Carleton S. Coon made some amazing discoveries in Arabia. During the 1950's, Wendell Phillips, W.F. Albright, Richard Bower and others excavated sites at Qataban, Timna, and Marib (the ancient capital of Sheba). Thousands of inscriptions from walls and rocks in Northern Arabia have also been collected. Reliefs and votive bowls used in worship of the "daughters of Allah" have also been discovered. The three daughters, al-Lat, al-Uzza and Manat are sometimes depicted together with Allah the Moon-god represented by a crescent moon above them. The archeological evidence demonstrates that the dominant religion of Arabia was the cult of the Moon-god.

In Old Testament times, Nabonidus (555-539 BC), the last king of Babylon, built Tayma, Arabia as a center of Moon-god worship. Segall stated, "South Arabia's stellar religion has always been dominated by the Moon-god in various variations." Many scholars have also noticed that the Moon-god's name "Sin" is a part of such Arabic words as "Sinai," the "wilderness of Sin," etc. When the popularity of the Moon-god waned elsewhere, the Arabs remained true to their conviction that the Moon-god was the greatest of all gods. While they worshipped 360 gods at the Kabah in Mecca, the Moon-god was the chief deity. Mecca was in fact built as a shrine for the Moon-god.

This is what made it the most sacred site of Arabian paganism. In 1944, G. Caton Thompson revealed in her book, The Tombs and Moon Temple of Hureidha, that she had uncovered a temple of the Moon-god in southern Arabia. The symbols of the crescent moon and no less than twenty-one inscriptions with the name Sin were found in this temple. An idol which may be the Moon-god himself was also discovered. This was later confirmed by other well-known archeologists.

The evidence reveals that the temple of the Moon-god was active even in the Christian era. Evidence gathered from both North and South Arabia demonstrate that Moon-god worship was clearly active even in Muhammad's day and was still the dominant cult. According to numerous inscriptions, while the name of the Moon-god was Sin, his title was al- ilah, i.e. "the deity," meaning that he was the chief or high god among the gods. As Coon pointed out, "The god Il or Ilah was originally a phase of the Moon God." The Moon-god was called al- ilah, i.e. the god, which was shortened to Allah in pre-Islamic times. The pagan Arabs even used Allah in the names they gave to their children. For example, both Muhammad's father and uncle had Allah as part of their names.

The fact that they were given such names by their pagan parents proves that Allah was the title for the Moon-god even in Muhammad's day. Prof. Coon goes on to say, "Similarly, under Mohammed's tutelage, the relatively anonymous Ilah, became Al-Ilah, The God, or Allah, the Supreme Being."

This fact answers the questions, "Why is Allah never defined in the Qur'an? Why did Muhammad assume that the pagan Arabs already knew who Allah was?" Muhammad was raised in the religion of the Moon-god Allah. But he went one step further than his fellow pagan Arabs. While they believed that Allah, i.e. the Moon-god, was the greatest of all gods and the supreme deity in a pantheon of deities, Muhammad decided that Allah was not only the greatest god but the only god.

In effect he said, "Look, you already believe that the Moon-god Allah is the greatest of all gods. All I want you to do is to accept that the idea that he is the only god. I am not taking away the Allah you already worship. I am only taking away his wife and his daughters and all the other gods." This is seen from the fact that the first point of the Muslim creed is not, "Allah is great" but "Allah is the greatest," i.e., he is the greatest among the gods. Why would Muhammad say that Allah is the "greatest" except in a polytheistic context? The Arabic word is used to contrast the greater from the lesser. That this is true is seen from the fact that the pagan Arabs never accused Muhammad of preaching a different Allah than the one they already worshipped. This "Allah" was the Moon-god according to the archeological evidence. Muhammad thus attempted to have it both ways. To the pagans, he said that he still believed in the Moon-god Allah. To the Jews and the Christians, he said that Allah was their God too. But both the Jews and the Christians knew better and that is why they rejected his god Allah as a false god.

Al-Kindi, one of the early Christian apologists against Islam, pointed out that Islam and its god Allah did not come from the Bible but from the paganism of the Sabeans. They did not worship the God of the Bible but the Moon-god and his daughters al-Uzza, al-Lat and Manat. Dr. Newman concludes his study of the early Christian-Muslim debates by stating, "Islam proved itself to be...a separate and antagonistic religion which had sprung up from idolatry." Islamic scholar Caesar Farah concluded "There is no reason, therefore, to accept the idea that Allah passed to the Muslims from the Christians and Jews." The Arabs worshipped the Moon-god as a supreme deity. But this was not biblical monotheism. While the Moon-god was greater than all other gods and goddesses, this was still a polytheistic pantheon of deities. Now that we have the actual idols of the Moon-god, it is no longer possible to avoid the fact that Allah was a pagan god in pre-Islamic times. Is it any wonder then that the symbol of Islam is the crescent moon? That a crescent moon sits on top of their mosques and minarets? That a crescent moon is found on the flags of Islamic nations? That the Muslims fast during the month which begins and ends with the appearance of the crescent moon in the sky?

CONCLUSION

The pagan Arabs worshipped the Moon-god Allah by praying toward Mecca several times a day; making a pilgrimage to Mecca; running around the temple of the Moon-god called the Kabah; kissing the black stone; killing an animal in sacrifice to the Moon-god; throwing stones at the devil; fasting for the month which begins and ends with the crescent moon; giving alms to the poor, etc.

The Muslim's claim that Allah is the God of the Bible and that Islam arose from the religion of the prophets and apostles is refuted by solid, overwhelming archeological evidence. Islam is nothing more than a revival of the ancient Moon-god cult. It has taken the symbols, the rites, the ceremonies, and even the name of its god from the ancient pagan religion of the Moon-god. As such, it is sheer idolatry and must be rejected by all those who follow the Torah and Gospel. 

Shalom 


 

Reply
 Message 6 of 13 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameIchmoSent: 9/25/2008 6:16 PM
Shalom group
 
 
"#1
Jesus never tried to convince anyone that He was God. Jesus never claimed to be God He said He is the SON of God.
 
Jesus is not his own Father any more than you are your own father or mother.
You can become like your father or mother but you can never be them.
You can become one in unity of Spirit with them but that still does not make you  the same person."
 
Actually He did in fact claim to be GOD!
 

The Jews Understood That Jesus Claimed to be God

The Jews did not understand how God could come in flesh. They did not understand Yahshua on one occasion when He told them He was the Father (John 8:19-27). However, on many other occasions they did understand His claim to be God. Once when Yahshua healed a man on the Sabbath and credited the work to His Father, the Jews sought to kill Him - not only because He had broken the Sabbath but because He said God was His Father, making Himself equal with God (John 5:17-18). Another time Yahshua said Abraham rejoiced to see His day. When the Jews asked how this could be, Yahshua replied, "Before Abraham was, I am." The Jews immediately recognized that He claimed to be I AM - the name by which Yahvah had identified Himself in Exodus 3:14 - so they took up stones to kill Him for blasphemy (John 8:56-59).

When Jesus said, "I and my Father are one," the Jews sought to stone him for blasphemy, because He being a man made Himself God the Father (John 10:30-33). They sought to kill Him when He said the Father was in Him, again because He was claiming to be the Father (John 10:38-39).

WhenYahshua forgave a palsied man of His sins, the Jews thought He had blasphemed because they knew that only God could forgive sin (Isaiah 43:25). Yahshua, knowing their thoughts, healed the man; thereby showing His divine power and proving His deity (Luke 5:20-26). The Jews were right in believing that there was one God, in believing that only God could forgive sin, and in understanding that Yahshua claimed to be the one God (the Father and Yahvah). They were wrong only because they refused to believe Yahshua's claim.

Shalom 


Reply
 Message 7 of 13 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameSkyangel�?/nobr>Sent: 9/26/2008 4:29 AM
Hi Ichmo,
 
To  make yourself EQUAL to someone is not the same as claiming to be that person.
I AM equal to all other human beings but I am not all other human beings.
 
For anyone to say "I AM that I AM",  does not mean I am saying I AM God. God is what HE is and I AM that I AM and you are  what you are.
 
Anyone can say I AM that I AM and  it would be the TRUTH.
 
Mat 10:25 It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more [shall they call] them of his household?
 
 

Reply
 Message 8 of 13 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameSkyangel�?/nobr>Sent: 9/26/2008 4:33 AM
In the principles of God, All things bear fruit after their OWN KIND.
 
TRUTH  brings forth TRUTH after its own  kind. The Son of TRUTH is the Same TRUTH as the Father of TRUTH because TRUTH brings forth TRUTH  but the Son is not the Father.
 
Same Principle for LOVE, LIGHT, PEACE, GOODNESS, etc.
 
The Father brings forth Sons who in turn become Fathers who bring forth Sons who in turn become Fathers who bring forth sons. etc.  LIFE is a CYCLE which keeps repeating ITSELF.
 

Reply
 Message 9 of 13 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameJLD883Sent: 9/26/2008 5:49 AM
Shalom Ichmo, in the name of Yehoshua Ha Mashiah.  Are you a Torah Revivalist?

Reply
 Message 10 of 13 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameLifesong-Sent: 9/26/2008 8:52 AM
This is not the way to start off a topic. First of all, you are wrong that Jesus didn't convince people (indirectly) He was God. He had the 12 disciples and even countless others that may have believed He was God. For example, consider the many passages where it says Jesus was followed by multitudes because of His teaching. He taught with authority, not as the scribes and Pharisees taught. Also, you disregard two key factors: which are the nature of God and the nature of man. Then you throw out a question that is impossible to answer and continue with a very stereotypical fallacy.

Concerning the nature of God:
First of all, the God of the universe does not impose beliefs on us. He does not make us believe He is real, that He exists, or that He robed Himself in flesh through a natural human birth by a virgin woman. If He did, He would not be considered just, but a power-hungry entity. If He did, His Word would not reflect that faith is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen. He certainly has the power to make all creation believe, but He is not going to because He is holy, just, righteous, and loving. (These topics themselves are also controversial issues which are besides the point of this discussion.)

In response to your questions "If Jesus [was and still is] God, then why did he [fail] to convince people that he [was and still is] God?" I already addressed the first part of this and this is not even true historically speaking. Even the early church father's made note about Jesus and referenced the disciples as real, living followers of Christ.

Concerning the nature of Man:
There is not one righteous man or woman in and of themselves. Humans are finite. Humans are, at best, flawed. Humans are mortal and therefore selfish is some respects. The Framers of America's Constitution knew this. Plato and countless other philosophers theorized this. Furthermore, you will find that large number of the population that doesn't believe in God (Jesus), a god, or gods, don't even want to believe. To some, even if they do believe to some extent don't want to be a part of an organized religion. Why? Because the standards and practices that are inevitable in those religions are not convenient for them. I said all of that to say this: not everybody, even if the absolute truth is presented to them, is going to realize it.

One great example would be the American Civil War. At the time, the country was divided not only between the ideology that slavery was either right or wrong, but also whether or not American's federalist system should have stronger state governments or a stronger central government. Ultimately, when the north was victorious and slavery began to disintegrate and as generations passed and the federal government gained more power, a larger number of people, up to present day, recognized that time period as one of the most embarrassing and atrocious chapters of American history. We now agree in America that slavery is wrong, even though there is a minority of people that still do not, because they are either misled or are comfortable with their ignorance; namely, those involved human trafficking. Aforementioned, it is possible that Jesus is the Glorious Truth and more people are beginning to realize it, but there will always be people that will never believe, simply because of human nature.

Concerning persuasion:
The question you posed, "How can you Christians convince me that Jesus is God?" is impossible to answer. Simply, it can not be done. I could run you through many different stages of persuasive material that regard the reliability of the Gospels and show that Jesus was an actual historical character, but this is not an issue of the intellectual. This isn't a proof for the quadratic formula, where I can take you through each step and say, "See how that works?" This is an issue that regards the human spirit. In fact, one can't even prove that a spirit exists, even though there are some convincing psychological studies of the conscious mind. I can't even convince you that the sentence "2+2=4" is true, let alone exists because it is a theory that only exists in the human mind. I hope you realize a trend here and see why this question is impossible to answer. Simply, the only way somebody can come to know Jesus is by faith. Once that is accomplished, one can not build a case of fact around their faith in Jesus Christ. However, they can build a case for their faith about Jesus Christ being the prophetic Messiah who died and rose on the third day based on fact.

Concerning Mohammad:
This statement is many different kinds of fallacies, including half-truth, shifting the burden of proof, red herring, and argumentum ad ignorantiam (argument from ignorance). For definitions, see this page: http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/mathew/logic.html. Let me explain what you are saying here, based on what I've deduced by your language. Jesus (in your opinion) did not convince people He was God, therefore He is not. Therefore, you require the Christians to somehow prove it to you, even though (in your opinion) God almighty could not do it Himself. Afterwards, you state that because Mohammad succeeded in convincing people he was a prophet, then he must have been. Ridiculous. This logic would never stand up against a true world religion or Bible scholar.

I already explained how Jesus, according to the Bible and corroboration by early church fathers does, in fact, provide a convincing case that Jesus did persuade (indirectly) that He was (and is) God. Although there is another issue here. Muhammad's movement has a religion attached to it. According to you, this was because he convinced people he was a prophet from God. What does that make the early Christian church, which actually predates the birth of this man by centuries?

Whoever you are wala461, I don't mean to offend you, bring down your beliefs, or degrade your history and intellect. What I do mean to do is show you how many of your preceding questions need to be answered and reconsidered before you can even begin to think about more theological implications, such as what life's purpose is and what God wants from us. I could certainly try and answer these questions, but it would be to no avail because you presented a bias, and an incorrect bias, from the very beginning.

Reply
 Message 11 of 13 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameIchmoSent: 9/26/2008 3:39 PM
Shalom group
 
Reply
Recommend  Message 9 of 10 in Discussion 
From: <NOBR>MSN NicknameJLD883</NOBR> Sent: 9/25/2008 11:49 PM
Shalom Ichmo, in the name of Yehoshua Ha Mashiah.  Are you a Torah Revivalist?

Basically I'm in the two house movement, but yes I'm all for the revitalision of true torah.

Shalom

 


Reply
 Message 12 of 13 in Discussion 
From: rentacopSent: 9/26/2008 4:06 PM
In response to the title of this thread, just look around at all the atheists in the world and you will see that even God Himself hasn't convinced everyone that He exists. It all goes back to free will and human pride and ego.

Reply
 Message 13 of 13 in Discussion 
From: trishaSent: 10/1/2008 7:56 PM
the failure was on mans part and not God's....

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