MSN Home  |  My MSN  |  Hotmail
Sign in to Windows Live ID Web Search:   
go to MSNGroups 
Free Forum Hosting
 
Important Announcement Important Announcement
The MSN Groups service will close in February 2009. You can move your group to Multiply, MSN’s partner for online groups. Learn More
Build on the True Foundation[email protected] 
  
What's New
  
  Welcome  
  Welcome, by Isaiah  
  All topics  
  Pictures  
  Holy KJV Bible  
  Links  
  Posting guide  
  EMMANUEL  
  Emmanuel--Part two  
  Proof of Emmanuel  
  In The Beginnig  
  Question&Answer  
  Wel./new members  
  Testimonies  
  on trinity  
  On Jesus only  
  Jesus  
  Baptism  
  Gifts of Spirit  
  Law & Sabbath  
  Grace  
  Peace  
  Salvation  
  Eve  
  Adam; Satan  
  The Beginning  
  God and Jesus  
  Day of Lord  
  Church: Israel  
  Genesis  
  The WORD  
  Women  
  Rapture?  
  Revelation  
  Beast Heads  
  Fall of OT  
  Psalm  
  Special Verses  
  Prayer Request  
  Dake's Studies  
  Let's Praise Him  
  Dreams /Visions  
  Family  
  SACRED NAME  
  gift messages  
  Ellen White  
  Holidays  
  Heresy  
  Triva Board  
  Health Tips  
  For Unbelievers  
  Birthdays  
    
  
  
  Tools  
 
Baptism : Matthew 28:19
Choose another message board
 
     
Reply
 Message 1 of 12 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameSobeit33  (Original Message)Sent: 2/25/2004 3:21 AM
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost
Right here is where you can see the ones who have the anointing teaching them; and those who do not. Unless one has a true revelation in the Word of God from the Holy Ghost, he will never see the truth of this matter of baptism and what Jesus was saying here in 28:19.

Name here means authority as was stated. So what Jesus was saying that the authority was given to him by the Father. Jesus had already stated in vs.
28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

So what Jesus was saying here that the power which he was given was the power of authority to invoke the name of the Father and that it was given only to him. He said that this power was to be given unto him. In other places in the NT. It states things that were given unto them but here Jesus said it was given unto me.

So Jesus is the ONLY one who has authority to pronounce or invoke the power of the Father by using His name. We are not given that place; nor was the apostles it is only Jesus who is said to be under the Headship of the Father. Only Jesus.

All the rest of us ADAMS are under the Headship of Jesus; that is as high as we can rightly go. We cannot go directly to the Father; we must go through Jesus.
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
That is why we must baptize as the Apostles did: in the NAME OF JESUS Christ.

Jesus is not the name of the Father. Jesus is not the name of the Holy Ghost. There is not one shred of evidence in the Word to prove this. Show me one Scripture saying the Holy Ghost was named Jesus.

It was not because Jesus is the name of the Father; neither was it because they thought Jesus was the name of the Holy Ghost. And they most certainly did NOT BELIEVE IN ANY HEATHEN IDOL TRINITY GOD.
So see that there must be a correct answer to this. You cannot call Matt. 28: 19 wrong and you cannot call Acts wrong. So what is the answer?

Purely, that Jesus is the only person directly under the authority or headship of the Father. He is the only one authorized to invoke the Name of the Father. So when we use the Name of the Father's Son, Jesus, it takes us all the way to the very throne of God the Father.
We go to the Father THROUGH HIS SON JESUS.

Jesus is the only one with the authority to invoke the name of the father.
We Baptize in the Name of Jesus for we are under HIS AUTHORITY. HE WAS UNDER THE AUTHORITY OF HIS FATHER (GOD IS THE HEAD - OR AUTHORITY ) OVER JESUS; THEN JESUS IS OVER US, HIS CHURCH OR BODY.
THAT MEANS WHEN JESUS PRONOUNCED BAPTISM HE SAID IT UNDER THE AUTHORITY OF HIS FATHER, THEREFORE HE SAID "BAPTIZE --- IN THE NAME OF MY FATHER, (I AM TELLING YOU


THIS UNDER HIS AUTHORITY) YOU DO IT IN THE NAME OF THE SON (YOU ARE UNDER MY AUTHORITY) AND THE HOLY GHOST ; FOR NOW HE IS OUR RULER.
No priest, no man on earth has the authority or right to invoke (call into action or power) the name of the Father. If you do, you are coming out from under the authority of Jesus and trying to go directly to the Father for yourself; and not go through Jesus. We cannot do that.
We must stay under the authority of Jesus. That is why the Apostles stopped at the name of Jesus -- they did not try to usurp the authority of Jesus and invoke the Name of the Father. No human being has that right.

What about Acts 2: 38? Why would Peter tell all those people wanting to know what to do to be saved to be baptized in the Name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins? did not he hear what Jesus had said only about 10 days before to baptize in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost? Do you think Peter just disregarded this or just made up another way? surely not! After all Jesus had given to Peter the KEYS to the Kingdom.

Now why would Jesus have done this if Peter were going to disobey his first command? To continue to think Peter disobeyed Jesus is to say Jesus did not know what he was doing. Right?

ALSO Mathew was there on the day that Peter preached his great message. Do you not think that he would have not objected to what Peter was saying if he was going against what Jesus said in Math. 28:19.

Our foundation is built upon a rock and that rock is Jesus Christ the only name whereby we must be saved.
Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

IS YOUR FOUNDATION BUILT UPON THIS ROCK?
HAVE YOU BEEN BAPTIZED IN THE WONDERFUL NAME OF JESUS CHRIST?
IF NOT YOU ARE NOT PART OF THE BRIDE OF CHRIST,
JESUS SAID But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

ARE YOU REFUSING BAPTISM IN THE NAME OF JESUS? IF SO YOU ARE DENYING HIM.
BETTER FIND YOU SOMEONE AND GO IN THE WATER AND UNDER THE WATER IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST FOR THE REMISSION OF SIN AND BE BAPTIZED IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST AND RECEIVE THE MOST PRECIOUS GIFT OF ALL THE BAPTISM OF THE HOLY GHOST WITH THE EVIDENCE THAT THEY GOT ON THE DAY OF PENTECOST.

And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.

And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
PRAISE GOD. THIS SHOULD BE ENOUGH EVIDENCE HERE IN THIS ABOUT MATH. 28:19 AND EASY FOR ANYONE TO UNDERSTAND THAT WANTS TRUTH.

I say this is so clearly explained that only those who flat refuse to walk on in the light of God's word, who refuse truth will continue on in their open rebellion to the way the Apostles taught us to baptize.
They hold to this for they think this upholds their idol 'trinity' god.

Well, the God, the True God of the Scriptures did not tell us he is any trinity.
You cannot just make up stuff about God. No human being has any right or authority or ability to EXPLAIN GOD OR HIS WORD. THE ONLY WAY WE CAN KNOW TRUTH IS BY COMPARING SCRIPTURE WITH OTHER SCRIPTURE WHICH EXPLAINS ITSELF.

That is what we have done WITHOUT leaving OUT ANY SCRIPTURE ON BAPTISM. Now let those who oppose what Peter taught, go and do the same thing = explain it using ALL THE VERSES ON BAPTISM.

We know that the word of God must have two or three witnesses for it to be established. Show us scripture what for you are saying about baptism in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. How can you not believe what has been said and the way and only way that the apostles baptized was in the name of Jesus Christ. There is no other name under heaven whererby we must be saved but by the name of Jesus. Show us scripture where it said the apostles baptize using Father, Son AND Holy Ghost.
You really shouldn't trust unto your own understanding and twist the words of the Apostles and of my Saviour.

You must call the Book of Acts a lie to deny this.
WHY DID NOT PETER THE ONE THAT HAD THE KEY GIVEN TO HIM BY JESUS SAY IN ACTS 2:38 AND MANY MORE PLACES SAY BE BAPTIZE IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST? WHY DID HE NOT SAY AS YOU SAY BE BAPTIZED IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER, SON AND HOLY GHOST? DID HE GO AGAINST WHAT JESUS SAID IN MATH. 28:19? NO NO WAY ? WAS HE NOT ALSO THERE WHEN JESUS SAID WHAT HE DID? TO DENY THIS IS TO CALL THE WORD OF GOD A LIE.

1Cor. 11:3--But I would have you know, that the HEAD (authority) of every man is Christ; and the HEAD (authority)of Christ is God.
Now, the Catholic church usurped the authority of Jesus and told the world it was alright to by pass the word of the apostles and baptize in the name of the Father and the Holy Ghost.
This means by their authority , or headship.

But go back and look at how Paul laid out that headship. He said Christ is the head of EVERY MAN. No man is under the authority, or direct headship of the Father. That is a place only Jesus occupies.
Peter knew this. Paul knew this. and that is why those two men, the two head apostles, baptized in the Name of Jesus. They knew they were NOT under the head of the Father; therefore they did not have the authority to INVOKE the name of the Father.

They stayed in the place Jesus put them into. They stayed under the headship, or authority of Jesus. When they baptized in the Name of Jesus, this was showing that they honoured their head as being Jesus and did not try to usurp His place as being the only one in the place to call the Power of the Father into action.

Why do you think the apostles baptized in the Name of Jesus Christ? Do you not ever consider those Scriptures? Do you wonder why they did not say in the name of the Father and Holy Ghost? do you just over look this?
You know why? It is because the Methodist, the Baptist, the Presbytherians, the Lutherans, etc. are ALL daughters of the whore, the Catholic whore church. So if you still go by their teachings, you are obeying the whore.

No person other than Jesus has the right to invoke, or call into action, or power of the Father by calling His name. That is what it means, to call their name in Baptism. It calls their power into action to remit sins. We can only do this by Jesus; for He is our head.
To try to call the name of the Father, is to try to come out from under the authority of Jesus and go directly to the Father for yourself. It cannot be done. Jesus will fight you.
We are told you can only go to the Father through Jesus; for Jesus is our HEAD.

His name is sufficient. If Jesus himself baptized you He would say in the Name of the Father. He is the only one who can do it. He was telling them in Matt. 28, that by the Authority of the Father he was telling them to Baptize. That is all there is to it. He was not telling them call that when they Baptized, if he had been , they would have done so.
If they will not believe the Apostles, neither would they believe tho one rose from the dead and told them.

No man can explain God nor his word. That is where all the lies and false teachings came from - men trying to explain what they could not understand themselves.
They cannot understand how and why the apostles only baptized in the name of Jesus Christ only - so they picked up on the trinity lies and said they had to say Father and Holy Ghost. They did not get this from the Word. it was handed down from the popes.

If that is how is it to be understood, then Peter, Paul and Philip would have said so. They did not say that. Show me one verse where Peter or Paul baptized in the name of the father son holy ghost Show me those words in the Word of God! Know what --- You cannot. For it is not in there. Therefore it is NOT GOD'S WORD. IT IS A LIE.

How many say baptize in the Name of the Father, Son , and Holy Ghost? Just one. And you do not understand that one.
Now if two are not written it is not established as truth. Jesus Name Baptism is written more than the most needed, three. So where are you? Out in the darkness of the carnal mind.


First  Previous  2-12 of 12  Next  Last 
Reply
 Message 2 of 12 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameIsaiah·Sent: 2/25/2004 3:18 PM

For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. ( They are not hearing and seeing what we are saying because their heart's have waxed gross)

And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand. ( we are speaking parables to these people because they have closed their hearing and their understanding to the word of God.)

Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand

joie it is just as you said if one rose from the dead they still would not believe

But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. ( even denying the Lord, how are they dong this? By saying that the apostles baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost and not being baptize in the name of Jesus Christ.

EVEN IF ONE ROSE FROM THE DEAD THEY STILL WOULD NOT BELIEVE BECAUSE THEY HEAR NOT AND SEE NOT. THEY DO NOT HEAR THE WORD OF JESUS AND THE APOSTLES. WONDER IF THEY WOULD LISTEN TO PETER OR PAUL IF THEY CAME BACK FROM THE DEAD? IF THEY HEAR NOT JOIE AND ISAIAH SPEAKING THE WORD OF GOD NEITHER WILL THEY PERSUADED, THOU PETER OR PAUL OR ANY OTHER APOSTLES ROSE FROM THE DEAD.

Jesus' day, they (who? the ones with eyes that cannot see, and the ones with ears but cannot hear) = religious hypocrites = and why are they blind and deaf HYPOCRITES? Because of this: and this is what God just told me:

In Jesus' day, they said, "We be Moses' disciples". Now why did they say this? Because they could not believe Moses in Jesus' day> It was impossible; God had already closed off the day of Moses;;; ...>> so God had sent and anointed John the Baptist and Jesus. They could now only get to God by believing John and Jesus. My Lord! what a revelation. (this is warm from Heaven = fresh baked bread)

Jesus told them IF YOU HAD BELIEVED MOSES (now see that by saying IF you had believed Moses, Jesus was PROVING that they lied -- they were NOT TRULY MOSES DISCIPLES) >>>>>> why?

Because if you had BELIEVED Moses, you WOULD BELIEVE ME FOR MOSES WROTE OF ME.

Now see that Jesus told them right here, you cannot now serve God by being Moses disciples. (how many do we know today who are still there? trying to be Moses disciples? millions) >>

Now (then) you had to believe John and Jesus.

Later, they HAD to believe Peter and Paul. And of course the other apostles.

They could not NOW (at that time = Pentecost) go back and get to God through John the Baptist. Proof? Acts 19: 1-10/ John's baptized disciples HAD TO BE RE-BAPTIZED BY PAUL - IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST. And receive the H.G. which neither John nor Jesus gave to them in their day.

Yes, just as they could not serve God under Moses in Jesus' day; nor could they get in any other way except through the Apostles in their day (Pentecost and shortly thereafter))))>

Now YOU CANNOT GET IN ANY OTHER WAY EXCEPT THROUGH THE TRULY ANOINTED AND GOD-SENT TEACHERS

OF YOUR DAY >>> = RIGHT NOW.

>>

It has always been this way>>> People of Abraham's day had to listen to him"" people of Moses day had to listen to him>>> people of John's day had to listen to him: Jesus>>>> Peter> Paul>> Stephen>>> etc.

People of Luther's day had to listen to him or stay under the popes:::::: and the other reformers;;;;;;;; that is all they had for their day>>>

But for today?? You had better listen to the teachers who have proven, by not crossing one single word of God, that they are the truly anointed teachers of today.

You could not BELIEVE IF PETER OR PAUL ROSE FROM THE DEAD THIS VERY NIGHT AND TOLD YOU THE VERY SAME WORDS THEY ACTUALLY WROTE IN THE WORD >>>>

Do you all realize that in EVERY AGE, the majority of people of that day, doubted that the very people God raised up and used, could POSSIBLY be used of God. that is true. In Moses day, he was constantly doubted by the very ones he was leading.

In Abraham's day only a handful of people believed him.

In John's day, only a very few believed he could be of God.

In Jesus' day the vast majority of people said, How could you be of God? You can't even read or write. He never received any 'learning'. In Peter's day, Paul's day, more people want to kill them than to believe them.

It has always been this way. I thought it stopped with them. NO!!!!!! It did not. I thought so myself until right now. God just told me that if Peter rose from the dead you COULD NOT BELIEV HIM. it is past his time.

That is why the rich man in hell was told, if they will not believe Moses and the law, they would not believe if one rose from the dead? >>>>>>>> What was he saying? It was in the day of Moses and the law; that was all they could believe....... and they believe it not!

.......so when Jesus rose from the dead......... they could not believe.....only those who had believed John, could now believe Jesus........then later Peter......then later Paul........then later..... Him.......and Him..... and Her

Take it anyway you wish. If you will not believe me quoting Peter's exact words. and Paul's exact words. and Jesus' exact words.... and not crossing one single word....... then that proves God has anointed me with truth.... and if you cannot and will not believe this, you could not believe if Peter rose up from the dead and told you.........why???????....bECAUSE HE WOULD TELL YOU EXACTLY WHAT i AM TELLING YOU;;;;; FOR I AM QUOTING WHAT HE ALREADY TOLD YOU IN THE WORD.

SO FOR TODAY YOU MUST HEAR US.

See that we teach exactly what Matt. 28:19 says and bring it into perfect harmony with Acts 2: 38 (Peter's words) see? Look what a revelation! It went from Jesus' words >> to Peter's Words>>>> then to Paul>> Yes Paul was persecuting the church when Peter was preaching> but later Paul preached the VERY SAME MESSAGE>

You cannot go back and claim I am Jesus' disciples; or Moses, or Peter's or Paul's see even Paul said this is carnality. IF YOU BELEIVE GODS WORDS, YOU WILL BELIEVE what we sayFOR WE TEACH SAME THING THEY ALL TAUGHT..... SO IF YOU HAVE THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH,,,,,,, IT WILL TELL YOU THAT WHAT I SAY IS TRUTH

is written that- He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

Whosoever shall receive this child in my name receiveth me: and whosoever shall receive me receiveth him that sent me: for he that is least among you all, the same shall be great.

He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

I think these scriptures say it all


Reply
 Message 3 of 12 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameIsaiah·Sent: 2/25/2004 3:22 PM

HISTORICAL BAPTISM

In the Encyclopedia Britannica, the eleventh edition, Volume 3, pages 365 and 366, you will find this statement: The baptismal formula was changed from the name of Jesus Christ to the words Father, Son, and Holy Ghost by the Catholic Church in the second century. Now, I am giving you historical proof that the original church baptized in Jesus' name.

Also, from the Britannica Encyclopedia, Volume 3, page 82: Everywhere in the oldest sources it states that baptism took place in the name of Jesus Christ.

Referring again to the Canney Encyclopedia of Religion, page 53: The early church always baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus until development of trinity doctrine in the second century. My friend, is this not proof that the early church practiced baptism in His name? Because of the change that religious leaders wrought on Bible interpretations in that day, this truth was completely hidden from the viewpoints of religious thinkers and from other people who were not entirely familiar with the early church.

In addition, Hastings Encyclopedia of Religion, Volume 2, page 377: Christian baptism was administered using the words "In the name of Jesus." Out of the same Hastings Encyclopedia of Religion, Volume 2, page 378: The use of a Trinitarian formula of any sort was not suggested in early church history. From the same volume, page 389, note: Baptism was always in the name of the Lord Jesus, until the time of Justin Martyr when the Triune formula was used.

Now back to the Catholic Encyclopedia, Volume 8: Justin Martyr was one of the early Fathers of the Roman Catholic church. So this man introduced a new idea of baptism.

History testifies to the authenticity of the scriptures. History also corroborates the fact that you and I must go back over the period of church thinking, rearrangements of man, philosophies and ideas of individuals introduced long after the apostles had died, which hanged the original promises of the New Testament church. We have to look back over the dark ages, reach into the early time of the formulation of the church, and find there those things that have made history, lay them side by side, and make a very careful comparison. We will come up again with the great truth that baptism in the name of Jesus Christ is the mode for water baptism. This is what the apostles practiced.

This is what the individual who hears the Word of God should obey. Friend, as "you read this message today, let me tell you the desire of our hearts. We are not trying to introduce controversy just for the sake of argument. We are here by the help of God to explain to you the great truth that lies dormant in the church world. We are here to resurrect again an understanding of the Great Power there is in the name of Jesus Christ. We are here to show you from the Word of God that this Lord whom we serve is a mighty Lord and that baptism in His name brings emission of sin. This One who died on Calvary's cross for your sins and my sins, the One who shed His blood in our behalf, who became the lamb, the paschal lamb slain for man's sins, is Jesus. The One who became the "He Goat" and suffered without the gate, the One who took upon Himself the sins of mankind, the Propitiator of all mankind's sin -- this One is Jesus Christ.

It is to Him that we look today for salvation; there is none in any other name. By looking to Him and finding in the centrality of His person this great truth, He is magnified in our eyes. His blood becomes very real to us; the sacrifice of Calvary comes out of the dead letter of history and becomes very, very outstanding -- all of his because of what was accomplished by Jesus Christ. You and I must obey the scriptures, believe them, and practice them for the scriptures are authenticated by history. You and I must lay our faith on the line according to the things that are found in the great truths of God and in the great records of man.

Lu 24:47 -

<DIR>

And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

</DIR>

Ac 10:43 -

<DIR>

To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

</DIR>

All I ask for is to show me where it is written that the apostles baptized using Father, Son, Holy Ghost

There should be two witnesses some where if it is written.

'in the name of' actually means THE AUTHORITY by which a thing is done ~~~ and apply this to the fact that when the apostles said to baptize 'in the name of Jesus Christ' ~~~ you say this means they were doing it under the AUTHORITY of Jesus (which is true)

and yet at the very same time --- you cannot and will not SEE that by the very same token, or meaning ~ when Jesus said ' baptize 'in the name of the Father'--- that it means the very same thing, as when the apostles said ''baptize in the name of Jesus''''' that Jesus meant I am telling you to baptize by the AUTHORITY OF MY HEAD, MY FATHER!!!!!!!!

how is it that you refuse to see that if 'in the name of' means by this authority of when the apostles said it''''''' then it also means 'by the authority of' when Jesus said it?

Do you see what I am saying. I find it difficult to explain this so you can see what I mean. But it should be clear to a small child. that if one person says a thing,,, and another person says the same thing,,,,,,,, that is means the SAME THING FOR BOTH PERSONS?????

See? If the apostles said'' in the name of Jesus''''' and this means we do this under the authority of Jesus........

then when Jesus said 'in the name of the Father...''''' this means I do this under the authority of my Father?.......

Why can you not see this? I truly believe that NEITHER one is actually a FORMULAR for baptism......but only the AUTHORITY by which each one pronounced that it takes water baptism to remit ones sins.

Now for a mere man, such as Peter or myself to say the words, In the Name of the Father.... is to insinuate that this man is UNDER THE AUTHORITY OF THE FATHER.

Then this means that this man is OVERSTEPPING the authority of Jesus, which is the only one said to be the HEAD over man...... and this mere man is trying to usurp the AUTHORITY of Jesus, which is the ONLY ONE DESIGNATED BY GOD TO BE ABLE TO APPROACH THE FATHER. ALL OTHERS MUST COME

THROUGH

Jesus.

If you say in the name of the Father, then you are saying I am under the authority of the Father, and not Jesus. (you are saying the name of Jesus is not sufficient -- i must invoke the name of the father for this to be effective; i tell you, the apostles did not practice this!)

Where Peter stated, baptize in the name of Jesus, he acknowledged that by stopping here, he accepted Jesus as His HEAD, OR HE WAS UNDER THE AUTHORITY OF JESUS.

This in turn, takes one to the Father. Only as long as we STAY where they decreed for us to be,= under the authority, or headship of JESUS.

The Father will not accept one who is trying to take down this headship of Jesus and go directly to the Father ourselves. For that is denying what the Father himself decreed, that in ALL THINGS, JESUS, GOD'S SON, SHALL HAVE THE PREIMENANCE!

If you pray in the name of the Father, He will not hear you; for you are taking yourself out from under the head God placed over us = which is JESUS, GOD'S SON.

Now that should be clear enough for a child to see. And it is NOT AS THE JESUS ONLY FOLKS STATE,, THAT THIS IS A DENIAL OF THE FATHER .... THAT IS BLASPHEMY!!!

NOWHERE DID ANY APOSTLE DECLARE THAT JESUS IS GOD, AND THE FATHER AND THE ONLY ONE. IT IS A LIE OF THE DEVIL.

THE APOSTLED DID NOT SAY BAPTIZE IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER.

FOR IT THEY HAD, THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN USURPING THE AUTHORITY OF JESUS, AND THEY CERTAINLY DID NOT DO THIS.

If Jesus where teaching a trinity, and that this mode of baptism was to be used, then I can declare to you in all assurance of truth, that the APOSTLE PETER, TO WHOM JESUS HAD GIVEN THE KEYS TO THE KINGDOM, WOULD HAVE BOTH TAUGHT THAT AND OBEYED IT THAT WAY.

To say otherwise, any kind of way, is to call Peter a lie, a disobedient apostle, and Jesus to have NOT KNOWN WHAT HE WAS DOING WHEN HE SAID PETER HAS THE KEYS BY WHICH YOU MUST ENTER INTO THE KINGDOM of Heaven.

Now do any of you, supposed to be Christians, and lovers of truth, see the pure truth of this? The very simplicity of this? I do hope and pray that some of you can have your 'eyes' opened to this.

If baptism in the Name of the Father, son & H.G. means there is a trinity, then Peter would have known this and done it this way. He would have taught a trinity, which he CERTAINLY DID NOT.

Neither did he teach Jesus only.

It is just not written.

The doctrine of the Trinity is not Biblical. It originated in paganism. The Babylonian and Oriental religions have long believed in triune divinities of father, mother, and child. The Egyptians worshipped Isis, Osiris, and Horus; the Babylonians deified Nimrod, his wife-mother Semiramis, and her illegitimate son Horus (Gilgamesh).

God is not a Trinity. God is a family composed of the Father and Jesus Christ, the first born of many brethren (Romans 8:29- For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. ).

The Bible does not teach a closed God-head. Rather, true Christians can become Sons of God, and be very members of the God Family, if they are born again at the resurrection. Read also Romans 8:17- And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified and I John 3:2.- Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

Was Peter wrong on the day of Pentecost? Let us notice that the time when they were pricked in their hearts "they said to Peter and to the rest of the Apostles, what shall we do?" Matthew was there when Peter standing up with the eleven and telling them to baptize in Jesus�?Name, yet we do not find Matthew correcting him. Matthew surely would have spoken up if Peter had disobeyed the Lord.

Then Phillip went down to the city of Samaria" (these people were not Jews, but Samaritans), "and preached Christ unto them." "But when they believed Phillip preaching the things concerning the Kingdom of God, and the Name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. ( WHEW THE WOMEN WERE ARE ALSO BAPTIZED") How? "In the Name of the Lord Jesus." Read Acts 8:8-16.

Paul, the apostle to the Gentiles, when he went to Ephesus twenty-one years after Pentecost. There he found some of John’s disciples and "he said unto them, Have you received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, we have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John’s baptism. Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus." Acts 19:1-5.

Now why would Paul say this?

Paul was not with the apostles when Jesus gave his final instructions to them in Matthew 28:19 and in Mark 16:16, yet we find Paul baptized in the Name of the Lord Jesus. From whom did he receive this revelation? Let us note that Paul’s Gospel is not a tradition from the other apostles, but it is a revelation. "For I certify you, brethren, that the Gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by revelation of Jesus Christ." Galatians 1:11-12.

Paul was chosen to bear Jesus�?Name to the Gentiles, and he wrote fourteen Epistles to the church. To this Apostle, God revealed the mystery of the church “Which in other ages was not made known to the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit." Ephesians 3:5.

Paul claimed to have divine authority: "If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord". I Corinthians 14:37.

Why did Paul write, "And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord~ Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him."


Reply
 Message 4 of 12 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameIsaiah·Sent: 2/25/2004 3:23 PM

Colossians 3:17. Whatever baptism is done both in word or in deed. We cannot afford to overlook this command to the church. "For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named." Ephesians 3:14-15. We must read the Acts of the Apostles, and the Ephistles of Paul to learn what the apostles taught and practiced after the Holy Ghost came.

"We are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief cornerstone." Ephesians 2:20. The apostles not only preached baptism in Jesus�?Name, but they practiced it. Nowhere can we find that they baptized using the words "in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost." We find them baptizing in the name of Jesus Christ, they fulfilled the command of the Lord in Matthew 28:19.

Paul said, "But though we, or angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. “Galatians 1:8-9. Let this be a solemn warning. Some say that they will accept the words of Jesus Christ in Matthew 28:19, but not those of Peter in Acts 2:38? Was that Peter speaking on the day of Pentecost or was it the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven. (1 Peter 1:12).

Remember Paul said, "We are built on the foundation of the Apostles and the Prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief cornerstone." Peter was one of the Apostles�?

Lord and Savior." 2 Peter 3:2.

Here we are exhorted to heed the words of the holy prophets and the commandment of the apostles, and the Apostle Peter commanded baptism in the Name of Jesus Christ. In Mark 7:7, Jesus said, "Laying aside the commandment of God ye hold the tradition of man." History tells us that it was not until the year 325 A.D. that baptism in the Name of Jesus Christ was changed by man not by the apostles.

"Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles to take out of them a people for his name. And to this agree the words of the prophet." Acts 15:14- 15. Jesus Christ is the head of the body which is the Church. (Colosians 1:18). Then why should we not baptize in his name? There is no other name for His church. "And they see his face and his name shall be in their foreheads." Revelation 22:4.

Let us therefore search the scriptures with an open heart remembering that Jesus said, “man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God." Matt. 4:4.

Why is this so hard to understand?

Oneness Pentecostal theology maintains that baptism must be by immersion using the formula "in Jesus name" and not the formula "in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost " as is found in Matt. 28:19. They reject the Trinitarian formula because they reject the Trinity. To support their method, they cite various Bible verses that reference baptizing in Jesus' name and claim that this is proof for their doctrine. Following are some of the Bible references they quote.

<DIR> <DIR>

Acts 2:38," Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."

Acts 8:16, "For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus."

Acts 10:48, "And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days."

Acts 19:5, "When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus."

</DIR></DIR>

The phrase, "in the name of the Lord" is not a reference to a baptismal formula, but a reference to authority. It is similar to hearing someone say, "Stop in the name of the Law!". We understand that the "name of the Law" means by the authority of the Law. It is the same with baptism "in Jesus' name." Consider the following:

And when they had set them in the midst, they asked, By what power, or by what name, have ye done this?

Then Peter, filled with the Holy Ghost, said unto them, Ye rulers of the people, and elders of Israel

If we this day be examined of the good deed done to the impotent man, by what means he is made whole;

Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole. (Acts 4:7-10)

We can see that the phrase is used in the Bible as an expression of authority. This is also verified in Acts 16:18 which says, "And this she did many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. And he came out the same hour." We also see that when people were being baptized that they did it calling on Jesus' name (Acts 22:16); that is, they were calling upon Jesus who has all authority in heaven and earth (Matt. 28:18). The church is supposed to "call upon the name of the Lord Jesus" (1 Cor. 1:2) because it is by His authority (John 1:12) that we Christians have the hope and right of forgiveness of sins and adoption as His children (Rom. 8:15).


Therefore, the Oneness Pentecostal people are simply in error by demanding that baptism be done with the formula "In Jesus name." Instead, it should be done as Jesus commanded:

So I hope you Pentecostals see even though you baptize using in the name of Jesus, you are doing it for the wrong reason. You SAY the trinatrians are wrong about the father, son,and holy ghost being wrong which they are but you Pentecostals also are wrong because you say it is a formula but it is a commandment by the authority OF JESUS.

"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost" (Matt. 28:19).

WHAT JESUS WAS SAYING HERE GO YE THEREFORE, HE WAS TELLING THEM TO LEAD THE WAY. Paul speaks of following him as he follows Jesus. Jesus way saying teach as I tAught YOU AND WHAT HE WAS TEACHING WAS TO follow his precepts and instructions AND TO MAKE DISCIPLES OUT OF OTHERS AND TO INSTRUCT THEM AS HE HAS INSTRUTED THE APOSTLES.

How some do not see that in the name of Jesus represents by the authority of Jesus Christ is beyond me? It is not a formula nor either is it a trinity.

Now as we have shown IF you say In the Name of the Father, you are REBELLIOUSLY REFUSING TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT YOU ARE ONLY UNDER THE AUTHORITY OR HEADSHIP OF JESUS. NOT GOD THE FATHER.

There is only ONE person said to be under the headship of the Father, and that is Jesus. All the rest of humanity is under the HEADSHIP OF JESUS AND JESUS ONLY.(now here is the only place Jesus only would be correct. Ha)

YOU CANNOT GO TO THE FATHER FOR YOURSELF --- WITHOUT GOING THROUGH JESUS. IF YOU TRY, YOU ARE A THIEF AND A ROBBER.

Mark 7: 9. And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

Now you say you do not get the trinity doctrine from the Catholics;;;;;; well I say then, give me the verse where it is taught. Tell me what verse showed you God is a trinity; with 3 persons in it. where is that in the Book?

I am honest with you, I have never read even one verse which would lead me to believe a trinity. I honestly do not believe that ANYONE who had not already been taught that lie of a trinity, would come to believe such a thing studying the Word of God; for it is just not in there.

Show me one verse which says, God the Son. or he is the first person in the Godhead; or he is the second person or third person in the trinity. I have been challenging trinity folks for years to show me even one verse supporting this lie; and not one has ever given me a verse yet. No, not one! And you will not be able to do so either. Now this should be enough to convince everyone that it is a LIE. Where is the word, trinity at in the Word? If it is not there, it is a LIE.

Mark 7: 9-- full well ye reject the commandment of God and hold to your own TRADITION.

Trinity,and trying to baptize that way (trinity) is only a 'TRADITION' of mama Catholic whore and her harlot daughters!!!!

All who do this are admitting by their actions that would rather stay in the darkness of that lie, their tradition, than to come into the LIGHT of Truth as taught by the Apostles, to whom Jesus gave the KEYS TO HIS KINGDOM

I tell you, you cannot get in without the KEYS. Your tradition will not save you. You full well reject the counsel of God for your traditions. Show me where 'trinity' is taught in the Word. Show me where they baptized or prayed in the name of the Father, in the Word? Where is it? No where to be found. We have shown you many verses that they baptized and prayed in the Name of Jesus Christ; and you reject it. Better be careful what you follow, Sir. Better be careful what you teach others. Their blood will be required of you.

Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

For the Pharisees, and all the Jews, except they wash their hands oft, eat not, holding the tradition of the elders.

And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.

That is what they are doing today HONORING the tradition of their fathers and mothers. O my dear old mother did it this way. O my dear old daddy did it this way. It is a family tradition that is wrong. Just because your dear old mother or your dear old daddy did it this way does not make it right, if it does not line up with the word of God, your dear old mama and daddy was wrong.

They honor that tradition. For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.

That is what is happening in this day and time, they hold their tration and lay aside the commandments of God, and not only this but many other such things.

For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.

Father here means handed down from one's father's or ancestors. So all they are getting is hand me down stuff that has wa old. As a brother I would always get stuff that was handed down from my oldest brother and it was stuff that was old and wore out. Those old clothes sometimes had holes in them and my mama would try to repair them with a patch but that would make it the so much the worse. I wanted some new stuff. That is like it is spiritual we need the new stuff ( NT) not the old stuff(OT).

No man putteth a piece of new cloth unto an old garment, for that which is put in to fill it up taketh from the garment, and the rent is made worse.

Neither do we put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.

So if holding to your tradtion of that old garment which is rent they all shall wax old as a garment; the moth shall eat them up.

But for me give me a new garment that will never wax old and will never rent and never need patching.

Give me the new garment To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that he might be glorified


Reply
 Message 5 of 12 in Discussion 
From: apostolicministerSent: 4/20/2004 11:33 PM
Concerning Matt. 28:19 - look at Luke's rendition;

Luke 24:47
And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
We certainly know the Apostles understanding of the commandment -

Acts 2:38
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
In Jesus Name

Reply
(1 recommendation so far) Message 6 of 12 in Discussion 
From: joieSent: 6/24/2004 4:07 AM
This is another good one on this subject of correct Baptism. Study this.

Reply
 Message 7 of 12 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameSearERICSent: 6/24/2004 1:50 PM
Very good Jo, when you teach according to the word, I get so giddy, thank you for making my mornining.  Now find some more good things for me, by this evening when I am able to get back on line, until then do your research and teach me the truth about Grace!!!
 
PEACE!!!


Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail is new and improved - Check it out!

Reply
 Message 8 of 12 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn22Sent: 10/7/2005 10:23 PM
Matt. 28:19 fully explained.

Reply
 Message 9 of 12 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameAxs2-381Sent: 6/28/2006 1:27 PM

Reply
 Message 10 of 12 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn22Sent: 7/16/2006 3:15 AM
  

Reply
 Message 11 of 12 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameAxs2-381Sent: 5/9/2007 6:14 AM

For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. ( They are not hearing and seeing what we are saying because their heart's have waxed gross)


Reply
 Message 12 of 12 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 5/9/2007 1:50 PM
The truth is all that will stand.  We are teaching the truth exactly according to the written word of God, not some man's ideas.  That is what Satan hates and he just keeps sending his wave of evil soldiers here to try to tear this site down.
 
When I first started on the computer, I had joined a few sites.  None of them allowed me to teach for they hated the truth.
 
One manager told me that if I thought I had the truth to start my own site, and that if it was of God it would prosper.  He banned me for teaching against the foolish rapture doctrine.
 
So My daughter and I started Build on the True Foundation, so we could teach truth without it being deleted.
 
Well that was seven years ago.  I could not count the thousands who have passed through here, read truth and  went on down the road of darkness and error.  We have had thousands of members.  I did away with most of them, as they proved after a long time, that they did not be active here.
 
I have banned only a few members, and that was for such evil only a devil would have allowed it.
 
But the point is, we are still here and his site has long gone into obsecurity.
 
God showed he was with us.
 
thank God for his glorious truth.

First  Previous  2-12 of 12  Next  Last 
Return to Baptism