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| | From:  Freeborn22 (Original Message) | Sent: 9/4/2006 11:50 PM |
This thread was started by Apostolicminister. We did a lot of messages on this thread. So I will move some of them, but start other threads so these messages will be easily accessible. I was looking for some messages on Baptism a few days ago. I was shocked to see that we have placed so few into our special board for baptism, since we have written 'tons' of messages on this subject. and the ones I found on this special board were not some of our best, so I am going to look for some now and move them. Then when we need to get something quickly, it will be here. so here is the origin of this thread by apostolicminister. I do not agree with all he said, but it is still good about the NAME of Jesus. *************************************** I believe the scriptures demostrate without fail, that baptism is in Jesus Name;
Acts 2:38
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 8:16
(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.) Acts 10:48
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Acts 19:5
When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord. 1 Cor 1:13
Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul? There would have been no need for this question had there been a half dozen different formulas.
It was a hated name: Acts 4:18
And they called them, and commanded them not to speak at all nor teach in the name of Jesus. Acts 5:40
And to him they agreed: and when they had called the apostles, and beaten them, they commanded that they should not speak in the name of Jesus, and let them go.
Matt 24:9
Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
It was the name preached: Acts 9:27
But Barnabas took him, and brought him to the apostles, and declared unto them how he had seen the Lord in the way, and that he had spoken to him, and how he had preached boldly at Damascus in the name of Jesus. It is the name of power: Acts 16:18
And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. And he came out the same hour. Mark 16:17
And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; It is the name spoken: Acts 9:29
And he spake boldly in the name of the Lord Jesus, and disputed against the Grecians: but they went about to slay him. It is the name we gather in: 1 Cor 5:4
In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, Matt 18:20
For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them. It is the name by which you are justifed: 1 Cor 6:11
And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. We are to do all in that Name: Col 3:17
And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him. The name to use in prayer: James 5:14
Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: John 14:14
If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it. The name to believe: John 3:18
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
John 1:12
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
It is the name of the Holy Ghost: John 14:26
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. It is the name of the Father: John 5:43
I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. At the name, EVERYONE will bow Phil 2:10
That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
It is the name of His people - doesn't the bride take the name of the bridegroom? Acts 15:14
Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
Acts 15:17
That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things. It is for His name: Rom 1:5
By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
We thank His name: Heb 13:15
By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name.
Faith in His name: Acts 3:16
And his name through faith in his name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all.
It is God’s saving name: Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
It is the highest name:
Philippians 2:9-10
Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
And with all that, you assume we are not to use that name at baptism?
It is the baptismal name:
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 10:43
To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
"Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. " ACTS 4:12 "and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith" REV. 2:13 "thou hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name" REV 3:1 Concerning Matt 28:19
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Websters dictionary defines "OF" as "belonging to".........in the name belonging to the Father, and belonging to the Son, and belonging to the Holy Ghost. What name belongs to all? Son- Luke 1:31 "shalt call his name Jesus" - JESUS Father- John 5:43 "I am come in my Father's name" - JESUS Holy Ghost- John 14:26 "will send in my name" - JESUS Matt 28:19 Cont.
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and(Kai) of the Son, and(Kai) of the Holy Ghost: STRONGS - 'both' - 2532 kai (kahee); apparently, a primary particle, having a copulative and sometimes also a cumulative force; and, also, even, so then, too, etc.; often used in connection (or composition) with other particles or small words:
KJV-- and, also, both, but, even, for, if, or, so, that, then, therefore, when, yet. It can be translated as "and" or as "even" (in the sense of "that is" or "which is the same as"). The KJV translates kai as "even" in several other places, including the phrases "God, even the Father" (I Corinthians 15:24; James 3:9) and "God, even our Father" (I Thessalonians 3:13). Now if you insist on 'kai' referring to more than one, please explain the below scriptures; Gal 1:4
Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and(kai) our Father: (If more than one, Father is excluded from being God. Note; the NIV & TAB render the passage 'our God and Father'.)
Col 2:2
That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and(kai) of the Father, and(kai) of Christ; (If more than one, your holy trinity has become a quintuplet  . Note; the NIV translates 'the mystery of God, namely, Christ'. The TAB translates 'God [which is] Christ'.)
Jude 1:4
For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and(kai) our Lord Jesus Christ. (If more than one, we have two Lord's which directly contradicts the scripture teachings. Note; the NIV translates 'Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord'. The TAB translates 'our sole Master and Lord, Jesus Christ'.)
At the most, the use of kai in these cases denotes a distinction of roles, manifestations, or names by which man knows God. In at least some cases the use of kai actually identifies Jesus as the same being as God - the same being as the Father. Acts 2:36
Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both(kai) Lord and Christ. Oh, that the ONE God robbed Himself in flesh! Now this would explain not only the singleness of the scriptures, but also why there is no mention of the Holy Ghost. 'God the Father' is that Spirit manifested in the body of Jesus who is BOTH Lord and Christ! "But these things are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing, ye might have life through his name." JOHN 20:31 | |
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| From: joie | Sent: 4/19/2003 11:37 AM | It is the name of the Holy Ghost: John 14:26
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. It is the name of the Father: John 5:43
I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.(Ap. minister)
It is true that we must Baptize in the Name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins ---- BUT IT IS NOT TRUE THAT THIS IS THE NAME OF THE HOLY GHOST OR THE FATHER. That is NOT WHY we baptize in His name. It is NOT a formular for baptism. It is the AUTHORITY by which it is done. I have a message here which proves why we baptize in Jesus Christ ' name. The term 'in the name of'-- does not mean this is that person's name. It is saying the authority by which something is done. If you go somewhere as a representative of a company you work for. you would say I come to you in the name of so-and-so. This does not mean so-and-so is YOUR name; it means it is the authority by which you are there doing business. This is the same way it is with the above Scripture: Jesus was not saying, Jesus is the name of the Father or the Holy Ghost --- No! He was saying I am telling you to baptize by the authority of my Father, who is my head or the authority over me. Peter said, be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ , who is my head or the authority over me. Why do you think Jesus said, If another shall come IN HIS OWN NAME YOU WILL believe him? Was he then saying Jesus is not the name of Jesus? That is what you would have to think if you use it as you do. See, the lie that Jesus was God robed in flesh is why you cannot see this truth. Show me one Scripture which said God robed himself in human flesh. I tell you in the name of Jesus, it IS NOT WRITTEN . JO | |
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| From: joie | Sent: 4/20/2003 11:15 PM | Peter said, be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ , who is my head or the authority over me. What book and verse does it say that?(ap. min.) 1Cor. 11: 3. But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. Now there is the headship laid out. This verse alone knocks that Jesus only lie in the head and kills it. The HEAD (authority) of every man is CHRIST. The head of the woman is the man. BUT ~~~ look at this one: The HEAD (authority) of CHIRST IS GOD. Now explain that, if you can. How is God the head of Christ? How is God the authority over Christ? 1Cor. 15: 28. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all. ... the SON also himself, shall be SUBJECT (or under the authority) of GOD. ....the Son also himself, shall be SUBJECT unto the one who put all things under him, that GOD may be all in all. God is the head over Christ for all eternity. | |
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| From: joie | Sent: 4/20/2003 11:03 PM | | I tell you both the trinity and the Jesus only doctrines are from hell and satan. Not God's Holy Word. No, If you say that when Jesus said if another should come IN HIS OWN NAME YOU WOULD BELIEVE HIM - the only assumption here would HAVE TO BE (going by your idea that he is saying that Jesus is the name of the Father, would be that then Jesus is NOT THE SON'S NAME.) Now if you will look at the instances you give you will find that in each case it made it clear that is was saying Mary was her name. or Peter was his name or what ever name you chose - it made it clear that it was saying this is that person's actual name. But when Jesus said I came in my Father's name, he did NOT SAY I am using my Father name. He did not say Jesus is the name of the Father. No! that is not even implied. It is the same distortion as this: My Father and I are one. So foolish people jumped off the truth path and said this means His Father and He are one and the same person. Then by the same token, we are all one and the same person. A husband and a wife are one and the same person. For Paul said we are ALL ONE. So what does this mean? Do you know? Jesus prayed in John 17 : 18. As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world. ( WHO SENT WHO? DOES ONE SEND ONESELF; AND IF SO WOULD HE SAY YOU SENT ME?) THOU MEANS YOU. SO HE IS SAYING TO (who?) You sent me? who? who sent who?
19. And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
20. Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21. That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
v22--Jesus praying--- that they all may be ONE EVEN AS WE (WE MEANS MORE THAN 1 ) ARE ONE. Maybe you should look up the word 'ONE'. Remember this is Jesus' prayer ---- that we ALL MAY BE ONE EXACTLY AS HE AND HIS FATHER ARE ONE. SO ARE WE ALL 1 AND THE SAME BEING? HE SAID as THEY ARE. It actually mean 2 or more being or things in unison. Yes the word 'one' has to have more than 1 to be its true meaning. So now where does that leave the Jesus only lie? If you desire truth, drop the insults and lets study this thing out together in a Christian manner. It is very important. You are missing some of the most GLORIOUS revelation in this world by not seeing the real truth. You must get on the right foundation in order to see any other truth in the Word. When Jesus asked Peter who do you say I am, what did Peter answer? Got any clues? He said, Thou are the Chirst, THE SON OF THE LIVING GOD. Notice he did NOT SAY YOU ARE GOD. Did Jesus rebuke this? Nope. He said THIS IS THE FOUNDATION WHICH I WILL BUILD MY CHURCH ON. So I say you need to find and get on the right foundation. No apostle ever said Jesus was God. Thomas is the only one who ever called him God; and that was because Thomas had received the revelation that AFTER HIS RESURRECTION INTO THE LIKENESS AND GLORY OF GOD, HE WAS NOW SET UP ON THE THRONE OF GOD WITH GOD, TO BE OUR GOD. | |
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| From: joie | Sent: 4/20/2003 11:31 PM | | Heb. 1: 4. Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. Jesus received his excellent name by INHERITANCE. Now I ask you, who did he inherit this name from? Can one inherit from oneself? I think not. For then the very meaning of 'inherit' is lost. Phil. 2: 9. Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: Now this tells us that God gave this name to Jesus. That is why his name is above all other names: God set it so. But this in no way does away with God, the Father of Jesus. God EXALTED Jesus. Do you think Jesus exalted himself? Nope. Matt. 28: 18. And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Now this says that Jesus was GIVEN all power in heaven and in earth. This is after His resurrection. But I ask you, WHO GAVE THIS POWER TO HIM? WHY DID IT HAVE TO BE GIVEN TO HIM? DO YOU BELIEVE THE WORD? WAS IT GIVEN TO HIM, OR DID HE LIE? | |
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| From: joie | Sent: 7/10/2003 10:06 PM | | Even thought there is a lot of conflict in this thread, there is still a lot of pure truth taught here which people need to get. I will send back as many good threads as I find on this subject of Baptism. This is of utmost importance; for contrary to most church teachings today, The right baptism is absolutely NECESSARY TO YOUR SALVATION. You can listen to this world's false teachers and miss God if you choose. But you will be without any excuse if you have read much in this truth teaching community. Deny the right way of Baptism and you will be lost. That is God's Word; not mine. This is more important than my teaching you deep secrets from the Word. For if you knew all the mysteries and STILL REFUSED WATER BAPTISM IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST FOR THE REMISSION OF YOUR SINS, AND REFUSED THE BAPTISM OF THE HOLY GHOST AS IN ACTS 2, WITH THE EVIDENCE OF THE HOLY GHOST SPEAKING THROUGH YOU IN THE UNKNOWN TONGUE, THEN YOU WILL STILL BE LOST. | |
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| Ray, in all honesty, how many of the posts in this thread have you sincerely READ? I doubt you read any of them. [yet you tell all that they are every one in error?] Now Let me ask you a thing. Be honest. YOUR soul depends upon knowing, believing and obeying the truth, just as mine does. So now.......watch this: Jesus said to PETER, unto thee I give the KEYS to the kingdom. Agreed? Paul was called to be the Apostle to the Gentiles. Agreed? Phillip was a man full of the Holy Ghost. Agreed? Peter's shadow passing over sick folks HEALED them. Agreed? I saw where you used this yourself........so this proves that PETER had supernatural faith or power. The very fact of Peter having the KEYS or the entrance way into the Kingdom, proves we must believe what this man taught and not only believe Peter, but obey him. Now Jesus told them to go and bapitze in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost. We all agree with this. But...... only ten days later, the Jews asked PETER what they need to do to be saved. What did Peter, the man with the keys, tell them? Did Peter lie, was he confused, did he deliberately disagree with Jesus and go against the doctrine of Jesus who had entrusted this man to give others the entrance into his Kingdom? Now this is something you and all others need to get down to answering for yourself. Fighting against God will only doom your soul. If these three men told us all wrong, then the entire NT is disabled into something no one can believe. It destroys completely the Word of God as we know it. In other words, you are telling us all here that Peter, Paul, Phillip and all the other disciples, for they all agreed with these men.......all these people, upon whose writings we all look to for spiritual guidance.......they all with one consent....went contrary to the doctrine of Jesus ..........and are therefore to be discredited with having any believabel truth..... and all because men have not sought the truth which does not cross any Scripture.... Ray does indeed consider himself such an anthority of God's Word, that he can without fear, discredit Peter, Paul, and Phillip, and along with these all who agreed with Peter, Paul, and Phillip. They all denied the doctrine of Christ and are to be considered apostates. So that is Ray's version. Agreed? [did you ever consider that maybe there is something here which RAY does not understand?] | |
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| The 'keys' is the Apostle's doctrine. That early, and only true Church, continued daily and steadfast in the APOSTLE'S DOCTRINE. Now anyone who departs from this teaching of the Apostles is doomed to destruction. If this is what it took to place Mary, the mother of Jesus, _Peter, James, John, Paul, and all those men and women of that day,,,into the true Church and kingdom of God, then it is going to take the very same message and obedience to that same message for all of us today. Jo | |
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Ac 8:34 And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? Of himself, or of some other man? 8:35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus. 8:36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? 8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. 8:38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him. 8:39 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing. 8:40 But Philip was found at Azotus: and passing through he preached in all the cities, till he came to Caesarea. I wish to show two things in the above Scripture: Philip had been told by the Holy Ghost to join himself to the chariot where this man was riding. He had begun at the verse in Isaiah where the man was reading about the crucifixion of Christ. Philip had preached to this man -- JESUS. Now when Philip finished his message, the man said, Here is WATER. What hinders me from being BAPTIZED? (See this was many days and months, maybe years since John Baptized and lived.) Yet this man, Philip had told this man something about the NEED to be baptized, ELSE how did the man know? Why did he ask to be baptized if Philip had NOT preached baptism to him? It clearly shows that BOTH Philip and the eunuch went down into much water and that Philip baptized this man in WATER. Then BOTH of the men came up OUT OF WATER. No sprinkling; no throwing water on his head; no spiritual water; real water; real baptism. But here, for the Jesus-is -God folks Philip had a CONDITION by which the man could be baptized. See the man had said here is WATER what hinders ME from being baptized. Then Philip had said IF THOU BELIEVEST WITH ALL YOUR HEART, YOU MAY BE BAPTIZED. Now watch this confession people. Be honest with the Word of God. What did this man confess that he believed? Remember he had received his faith and knowledge from the preaching of Philip. So he is believing what Philip had preached. So did Philip preach to this man that Jesus is God? -- DID HE? Check the man's answer out right here: verse 37-- He answered and said, I believe that JESUS CHRIST IS -what? -- look at it-- the SON--OF--GOD. Now this man did NOT say --I BELIEVE THAT JESUS CHRIST IS GOD. Now did he? Where did he confess to believing that Jesus is God? Where is it recorded? Is this KJV Truly the Word of God? Did not he believe what Philip had preached? Sure he did. Did Philip accept this man's confession as proving grounds making him worthy to be baptized? Sure he did. He took him right down into the water as soon as he confessed I believe that Jesus is the SON OF GOD. And baptized him. Did God accept this act? Of course he did. V39-and he went on his way REJOICING. Joy comes only from God. Now I think this proves to any KJV Believing folks that water baptism is absolutely NECESSARY to salvation. And that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. --Not God. Did Philip preach the true Apostolic message, which Peter preached? Sure He did. He had preached to this man that Jesus Christ is the SON OF GOD. (Present tense, after the resurrection and ascension to heaven, Jesus is STILL the Son OF God.) We have NO record where any of them ever preached or confessed to believe that Jesus is God. You who think this is taught in the Holy Word, go and find me one verse where they ever preached or confessed to believe that Jesus is God. We have only one record where anyone ever even confessed that Jesus is OUR GOD. Of course he is our God.. but this does not mean he IS GOD. |
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Luke 24:45-47 records
Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem Just before His ascension, Jesus opened the disciples' understanding. It was necessary that their understanding be opened, and many today need this same operation in order to understand the Scriptures. Then Jesus said to them, "Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day." The disciples had their understanding opened so that they could grasp the vast importance of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ. Verse 47 describes the commission that Jesus then gave: "And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations (Jews and Gentiles), beginning at Jerusalem." Peter was one of that number to whom Jesus had spoken and whose understanding had been opened. After having listened to these instructions, a few days later he was inspired by the Holy Ghost to preach on the Day of Pentecost. The hearts of the hearers were pierced and, feeling condemned, they cried out to Peter and the other apostles, "Men and brethren, what shall we do?" (Acts 2:37) Peter did not hesitate but boldly answered, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost" (Acts 2:38). "Then they that gladly received his word were baptized, and the same day there was added unto them about three thousand souls" (Acts 2:41). Some say that Peter told them to be baptized in Jesus' name because they were Jews and this baptism was to make them acknowledge Jesus Christ. But let us go with Peter to the house of Cornelius several years later. Cornelius and his household were Gentiles, yet there again Peter "commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord" (Acts 10:48). (If Peter was wrong on the Day of Pentecost, he surely had ample time to be corrected before he went to the house of Cornelius Was Peter wrong on the Day of Pentecost? When the hearers were pricked in their hearts, they spoke to Peter and to the rest of the apostles (Acts 2:37). This included Matthew, who wrote Matthew 28:19. Moreover, when Peter preached, he stood up with the eleven (Acts 2:14). Matthew was there, yet we find no words of correction from him. He surely would have spoke up if Peter had disobeyed the Lord. But all the apostles understood and carried out the Lord's commission. As Jesus said in prayer, "I have manifested thy name unto the men [the apostles] which thou gavest me out of the world...and they have kept thy word" (John 17:6).
The Samaritans, who were not Jews, were also baptized in the name of Jesus. "Then Philip went down to the city of Samaria, and preached Christ unto them...But when they believe Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women...they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus" (Acts 8:5, 12, 16). Let us see how Paul, the apostle to the Gentiles, baptized. He went to Ephesus many years after the Day of Pentecost and found some disciples of John the Baptist there. "He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they say unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy ghost. And he said unto them, Unto what then were you baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. The said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should com after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. (Acts 19:2-5). Although these disciples had already been baptized, the name of Jesus was so important as to cause them to be re-baptized in His name. We do not believe that Paul changed the way of baptism when he baptized Lydia and her household (Acts 16:14-15) or the Philippian jailer. The later came trebling and fell down before Paul and Silas, saying, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. And he took them the same hour of the night (shortly after midnight), and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway" (Acts 16:30-33). How can we doubt that Paul baptized these people using the same way that he used elsewhere, that is, immersion in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ? Paul was not with the Apostles when Jesus gave his finial instructions to them in Matthew 28:19 and Luke 24:47, yet Paul baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. How did he know what to do? He said that his gospel was not a tradition of men but a revelation from God. "I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by a revelation of Jesus Christ" (Galatians 1:11-12).
Paul was chosen to bear Jesus' name to the Gentiles, and he wrote many divinely inspired epistles to the church. To this apostle, God revealed the mystery of the church, "which in other ages was not made know unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit" (Ephesians 3:5). Paul claimed to have divine authority: "If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord" (I Corinthians 14:37). And Paul wrote, "Whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him" (Colossians 3:17). Water baptism is done in both word and deed. We cannot afford to overlook this command to the church. The church is "built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone" (Ephesians :20). The apostles not only preached baptism in Jesus' name, but they practiced it. Nowhere can we find that they baptized using the words "in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost." Instead, we find them baptizing in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. Paul said, "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed" (Galatians 1:8). Let this be a solemn warning to us. Some say that they will accept the words of Jesus in Matthew 28:19 but not those of Peter in Acts 2:38. But Peter spoke on the Day of Pentecost under the anointing of the Holy ghost. Peter was one of the apostles, and to him had been given the keys of the kingdom, so we have no right to discredit his words.
Mark 7:8 Jesus said, "Laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men." History tells us that it was not until many years after the apostles that baptism in the name of Jesus Christ were changed. Which means more to you, the command of the Lord or the tradition of men? HOW CAN YOU BE THE BRIDE OF CHRIST WITHOUT ACEEPTNG HIS NAME? I COMMAND YOU TO BE BAPTIZE IN THE NAME of Jesus. YOUR SALVALTION DEPENDS ON IT
Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. |
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Oneness Pentecostal theology maintains that baptism must be by immersion using the formula "in Jesus name" and not the formula "in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost " as is found in Matt. 28:19. They reject the Trinitarian formula because they reject the Trinity. To support their method, they cite various Bible verses that reference baptizing in Jesus' name and claim that this is proof for their doctrine. Following are some of the Bible references they quote. <DIR> <DIR> Acts 2:38," Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." Acts 8:16, "For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus." Acts 10:48, "And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days." Acts 19:5, "When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus." </DIR></DIR> The phrase, "in the name of the Lord" is not a reference to a baptismal formula, but a reference to authority. It is similar to hearing someone say, "Stop in the name of the Law!". We understand that the "name of the Law" means by the authority of the Law. It is the same with baptism "in Jesus' name." Consider the following: And when they had set them in the midst, they asked, By what power, or by what name, have ye done this? Then Peter, filled with the Holy Ghost, said unto them, Ye rulers of the people, and elders of Israel If we this day be examined of the good deed done to the impotent man, by what means he is made whole; Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole. (Acts 4:7-10) We can see that the phrase is used in the Bible as an expression of authority. This is also verified in Acts 16:18 which says, "And this she did many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. And he came out the same hour." We also see that when people were being baptized that they did it calling on Jesus' name (Acts 22:16); that is, they were calling upon Jesus who has all authority in heaven and earth (Matt. 28:18). The church is supposed to "call upon the name of the Lord Jesus" (1 Cor. 1:2) because it is by His authority (John 1:12) that we Christians have the hope and right of forgiveness of sins and adoption as His children (Rom. 8:15).
Therefore, the Oneness Pentecostal people are simply in error by demanding that baptism be done with the formula "In Jesus name." Instead, it should be done as Jesus commanded:
So I hope you Pentecostals see even though you baptize using in the name of Jesus, you are doing it for the wrong reason. You SAY the trinatrians are wrong about the father, son,and holy ghost being wrong which they are but you Pentecostals also are wrong because you say it is a formula but it is a commandment by the authority OF JESUS. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost" (Matt. 28:19). WHAT JESUS WAS SAYING HERE GO YE THEREFORE, HE WAS TELLING THEM TO LEAD THE WAY. Paul speaks of following him as he follows Jesus. Jesus way saying teach as I tAught YOU AND WHAT HE WAS TEACHING WAS TO follow his precepts and instructions AND TO MAKE DISCIPLES OUT OF OTHERS AND TO INSTRUCT THEM AS HE HAS INSTRUTED THE APOSTLES. How some do not see that in the name of Jesus represents by the authority of Jesus Christ is beyond me? It is not a formula nor either is it a trinity. Now as we have shown IF you say In the Name of the Father, you are REBELLIOUSLY REFUSING TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT YOU ARE ONLY UNDER THE AUTHORITY OR HEADSHIP OF JESUS. NOT GOD THE FATHER. There is only ONE person said to be under the headship of the Father, and that is Jesus. All the rest of humanity is under the HEADSHIP OF JESUS AND JESUS ONLY.(now here is the only place Jesus only would be correct. Ha) YOU CANNOT GO TO THE FATHER FOR YOURSELF --- WITHOUT GOING THROUGH JESUS. IF YOU TRY, YOU ARE A THIEF AND A ROBBER. Mark 7: 9. And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition. Now you say you do not get the trinity doctrine from the Catholics;;;;;; well I say then, give me the verse where it is taught. Tell me what verse showed you God is a trinity; with 3 persons in it. where is that in the Book? I am honest with you, I have never read even one verse which would lead me to believe a trinity. I honestly do not believe that ANYONE who had not already been taught that lie of a trinity, would come to believe such a thing studying the Word of God; for it is just not in there. Show me one verse which says, God the Son. or he is the first person in the Godhead; or he is the second person or third person in the trinity. Where is the word, trinity at in the Word? If it is not there, it is a LIE. Mark 7: 9-- full well ye reject the commandment of God and hold to your own TRADITION. Trinity,and trying to baptize that way (trinity) is only a 'TRADITION' of mama Catholic whore and her harlot daughters!!!! All who do this are admitting by their actions that would rather stay in the darkness of that lie, their tradition, than to come into the LIGHT of Truth as taught by the Apostles, to whom Jesus gave the KEYS TO HIS KINGDOM I tell you, you cannot get in without the KEYS. Your tradition will not save you. You full well reject the counsel of God for your traditions. Show me where 'trinity' is taught in the Word. Show me where they baptized or prayed in the name of the Father, in the Word? Where is it? No where to be found. We have shown you many verses that they baptized and prayed in the Name of Jesus Christ; and you reject it. Better be careful what you follow, Sir. Better be careful what you teach others. Their blood will be required of you. Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. For the Pharisees, and all the Jews, except they wash their hands oft, eat not, holding the tradition of the elders. And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition. That is what they are doing today HONORING the tradition of their fathers and mothers. O my dear old mother did it this way. O my dear old daddy did it this way. It is a family tradition that is wrong. Just because your dear old mother or your dear old daddy did it this way does not make it right, if it does not line up with the word of God, your dear old mama and daddy was wrong. They honor that tradition. For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do. That is what is happening in this day and time, they hold their tration and lay aside the commandments of God, and not only this but many other such things. For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do. Father here means handed down from one's father's or ancestors. So all they are getting is hand me down stuff that has wa old. As a brother I would always get stuff that was handed down from my oldest brother and it was stuff that was old and wore out. Those old clothes sometimes had holes in them and my mama would try to repair them with a patch but that would make it the so much the worse. I wanted some new stuff. That is like it is spiritual we need the new stuff ( NT) not the old stuff(OT). No man putteth a piece of new cloth unto an old garment, for that which is put in to fill it up taketh from the garment, and the rent is made worse. Neither do we put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved. So if holding to your tradtion of that old garment which is rent they all shall wax old as a garment; the moth shall eat them up. But for me give me a new garment that will never wax old and will never rent and never need patching. Give me the new garment To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that he might be glorified |
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| From: joie (Original Message) | Sent: 6/11/2005 11:02 PM | Acts 8:12. But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
13. Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done. Philip preached things about the kingdom of God and the NAME OF JESUS CHRIST, AND THOSE PEOPLE ALL WERE BAPTIZED. So sure seems conclusive that Philip preached Baptism here in the name of Jesus Christ; for that is the result of his preaching to this town. Now the question is, did they baptize in water or letters? Ask Pillar. He knows. 4. Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
15. Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
16. (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.) Verse 16------said those people had been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.........but, BUT the Holy Ghost had not yet fallen upon any of them> What? But me thought that was one and the same and the only baptism = just the spirit baptism. .........but Peter and John did not think so.........for they KNEW that whole town of folks, both men and women had already been baptized in water in the name of Jesus Christ........so they stood in line to receive the promise of the Holy Ghost...........so after they laid their hands on these baptized folks,,,,,,,,guess what? The Holy Ghost fell upon them. Now that counts like T.W.O. different baptisms to me? How bout you all. Can anyone else here count to 2? First.....Philip had already baptized these folks in the Name of Jesus Christ.....(now don't go blaming and fussing at me; it is written right here in the Book; so if you doubt it just go throw your book into the fire and burn it up; for it must be teaching lies) Second. (now that makes 2) Peter laid hands on them and they received the Holy Ghost...........so this is two different experiences occuring at two different times............after all,,,you know it takes time to travel from Jerusalem to this town........and all of them were baptized BEFORE PETER AND JOHN HEARD OF IT AND THEN TRAVELED TO THAT TOWN .......AND THEY MIGHT HAVE WAITED A FEW DAYS BEFORE GOING; DONT KNOW. BUT ONE THING FOR SURE, THEY HAD TWO DIFFERENT BAPTISMS HERE. NOW THE BIG QUESTION FOR PILLAR IS THIS: WERE THEY BOTH BAPTISM OF LETTERS? OR SPIRIT? Now it gets even more confusing; read on: 35. Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.
36. And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
37. And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. 38. And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
39. And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing. Wow this Philip must have been one mixed up boy! First he baptizes that town of folks in the Name of Jesus Christ , which gets them the Holy Ghost>>>>>>>>>then he proceeds to preach Jesus to this poor unsuspecting eunuch. Now this convinced this unknowing man that he needs to get baptized in water........... Philip, shame on you;;;;;;;teaching this poor boy he better get baptized in water in the name of Jesus...... Sure he did. Look at it. v36.....and they came to a certain WATER.........what? Water? was it natural water or letters? did Philip tell this man you need to get baptized in letters? Must not have for this man sees some water and immediately desires to get baptized. How in this world did this man know about baptism? Had to be that this was part of Philip's sermon. He preached Jesus. So baptism is part of Jesus. .....the man said, here is WATER? what hinders me from being baptized..............folks, Pillar is trying to hinder all of you from being baptized in water according to the message of the apostles, which is the foundation of the Holy City, the Bride of Christ..........so he is trying to keep you out of that City........ But now back to the story: V.37-Philip says IF you believe with all your heart, you may be. See he had brought the man through the first part of getting him to BELIEVE...............but..........BUT.......did he leave him there and say that is enough.....you are saved???????????? Nope. NO!!No. People, if you care for your souls, you better get this........me cares more about your souls than you doooooooossssssss. for me is wearing me fingers out trying to get someone to SEE.... If you BELIEVE ,,,,,,,then you MAY be baptized.....in this WATER...in the name of Jesus Christ. v38------they went both of them into the WATER....... What????? yes. BOTH MEN WENT DOWN INTO WATER. Water. Was it natural water? If not, how did they both get out of the natural chariot and walk down into the water? If it is letters, how did they both walk down into it and Philip baptize him? See, Jesus is the ONLY one who can baptize you with the Holy Ghost...............but here this human man PHILIP baptized this man, same as he had baptized that other whole town........ v39....then they both CAME UP OUT OF THE WATER......AND THE MAN WENT ON HIS way REJOICING...........he had received the HG........that is why he is rejoicing. Now, I am here to tell you,,,,,,,,,,,,you gonna have to totally discredit this Book and call the whole thing a big lie to hang to this tale that water baptism is not natural water; but only letters. Who do you believe? Pillar and his insane statements...... or the KJV Scriptures? If you deny the Word, You will be denied and sent to hell. Jesus, yes Jesus, said IF YOU DENY ME, I ALSO WILL DENY YOU. SO ALL OF YOU DENYING THE NAME OF JESUS,,,,,,,,,,,,, AND SAYING ALL KINDS OF OTHER NAMES,,,,,,,,,JESUS WILL SOMEDAY DENY YOU BEFORE THE FATHER -----AND ONLY HELL FIRE AWAITS YOU THEN. I have warned you. I have told you. I have proven it by the Word. If you deny this, you are calling God a lie. God is the Word. The Word is God. So if you call this much Word a lie, you call God a lie. He will send you to hell for this. With this much proof,,,,,,,,,,,, how can any person continue to doubt this and deny it? Philip, you are just as mixed up as Peter and Paul. They both had the same delusion you have that Jesus meant for you to go water baptize folks in His Name. They all had this same delusion. But they build the true foundation for the Holy City. If they were wrong, that Holy City will crumble and fall...........for it is build upon this foundation the Apostles preached. Do any of you dare go against this much Scripture and mete out for yourself another escape route? Not me. I will obey and believe Philip, Peter, Paul. and the others. For they are the foundation. If one was mixed up, they all were. If it is not water baptism, then burn your Bibles; for they teach lies. Jo Smith | |
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Freeborn, There is something about Skyangel that bothers me (and also Bill). She does not use scriptures alot. Also here is one of her post on APO board about Baptism. There is something about her. I can't put my finger on it. But don't worry I will figure it out with God's help. Tweety
Ragdoll, I know Jesus was baptised and He did it as an example. If you read my post you will see I already said all that. That is not what I am asking. John the Baptist baptized Jesus. Did John the baptise say "I baptize you in the name of Jesus?" Did he use the "magic" formula or did he have a different "magic" formula? How did John Baptize? Did he Baptize in the name of Jesus? Why did Jesus go to John to be Baptized and not ask one of the disciples to baptize Him the name of the Father Son and Holy Ghost or in the name of Jesus? What does it really mean to be baptized in the name of Jesus? Is it all about a "magic " formula? Is it all about some "magic words" like "abradacdabra?" Do the words really make any difference ? |
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Tweety, you are certainly right to be concerned about this person. she is an apostate. But as you said, you will figure it out. God will let you know. (and I hope you figure bill out while you are at it). They are BOTH against the truth of God's Holy Word. They both smerk and sneer at the real truth. You do not do this, and it is your safety. God sees you are sincere and seeking truth. If you do not reject Truth as God reveals it, you will find it and stand upon the mountain top and proclaim it to this world, and they will hear you. God gave me that for you. Shew! It is trilling when God send His spirit through me like that and shows me prophecy for a fellow-Christian. Keep up the good work, don't falter and God will see you through it all. Jo p.s. I was just reading my last message up there and Larry's. boy, that was some good preaching! Yes. |
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