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| | From:  Freeborn22 (Original Message) | Sent: 9/6/2006 3:05 AM |
The following is some posts we all did way back in 2002, when we were discussing baptism. Pillar was contending to us that baptism is not referring to natural body baptism, in other words, he does not believe in using real wet water for baptism. I am moving some of the messages on Baptism and placing them on the Baptism board. I want to save some of these cute things, but am not going to put them under the thread on Baptism. I will just do it on this separate thread. I love the things that were said here, so want to share them again. I especially love what Spiritwalker was saying. so here goes: | Verse 21 says that Jesus was "being" baptized".....Jesus got wet. Love, "Spiritwalker" | |
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| Thank you Joie....wet is wet and that is all there is to it. If you get in water, you are wet, and if you come out of water, you are wet. When we are born of a woman, we are wet. That is what was meant when it was said you could not enter into the womb again....you are only born of woman once. Pheweee, that is not hard to understand. So, Mama said I was wet behind the ears, and maybe I still am, but wet is wet. Love, "Spiritwalker" | |
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| I also like this about getting wet. May I add something here and say that if you go in the water and you are baptized using Father, Son,Holy Ghost instead of the name of Jesus all you are doing is still getting wet. | |
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The following is absolutely the very best message I have ever heard Beffers say in the years I have known him. He really did some good teaching right here. Glad I found all of this again.*********
| From: Beffers | Sent: 10/14/2002 1:59 AM | "...but when Jesus was baptized, he wasn't in water but was in Johns doctrine and when he heard the words of John, the Word was opened unto him, for in that moment the Word was changed, for the Spirit of God descended upon the Word" "And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water:.." Matt 3:16 Pillar, only a willful, stubborn character can deny this Scripture. Look in the Concordance or any other book of your choosing. This phrase clearly says straightaway (euthus) "straight forward, upright, immediately" out of (apo) "separating, departing, fleeing, physical, of distance of place" the water (hudor) "pools, rivers, fountains" Pillar, Jesus was in the water and when baptized, came out of the water. It means nothing else. Another thing, if the water was Johns word (doctrine), then according to the Scripture above, Jesus came out of Johns word (removed himself from or departed from it). This makes no sense whatsoever. Your interpretation cannot possibly be taken seriously, and won't be. Let's look at another verse: "Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples" John 4:2 This baptism is also of the "word?" Can't be. The above verse tells us Jesus never baptized, but His disciples did. Are you saying Jesus never spoke or taught the "word" but only His disciples? "Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls." Acts 2:41 What about this one Pillar? Do you still think the baptism here is the "word?" You would do well to think again. There are to distinct actions being taken in this particular verse. 1) receiving the word and 2) acting upon that conviction, being baptized. The so called "washing by the word" (as you put it, John's doctrine) was already received by the multitudes. But then there was another baptism, water baptism. So you see Pillar, the baptism spoken in this verse is not what you consider the "word" because the people already heard the word before they partook of the baptism (baptizo) ("to dip repeatedly, to immerse, to submerge") mentioned. "And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?" Acts 8:36 "And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him." Acts 8:38 This has to be the most damaging evidence to your non-belief in water baptism. After hearing Phillip's testimony and/or preaching, the eunuch made it a point to stop when seeing the water. He instructed Phillip to take him into the water and baptize him. All this was done after the word was heard. The baptism wasn't the word itself. That is not the case in the baptism of the eunuch. All the eunuch did was done in response to hearing the Word of God. It was a testimony of his belief in what Phillip taught him. Nothing else. Good night too you!!  Beffers | |
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here is three together: Reply
| | | From: pillar | Sent: 10/14/2002 9:48 AM | | go and baptize in the NAME of the Father,Son and holy ghost.(REVEL 19:13) And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his
name is called The Word of God.
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| | | From: Beffers | Sent: 10/14/2002 12:55 PM | | Pillar, what has your message to do with my questions? | | Reply
| | | From: Beffers | Sent: 10/14/2002 1:05 PM | | Pillar, if baptism only means the "word," why was it important for the eunuch to find water and walk down into it with Phillip? According to the correct translation of Matt. 3:16, why was Jesus literally standing in the river? What would be their reasons for doing so if baptism were only referred too as the "word?" Beffers | | |
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| From: joie | Sent: 10/14/2002 8:45 PM | | Wow. Brother, preacher Beffers. Now I have to give you a standing ovation. That is about the best sermon on this subject ever to come forth. And Spiritwalker, I just love what you and Isaiah have said here. This is just great! Beffers, this is about the truest statement I have ever heard -- that only the most stubborn spirit could still try to resist what you have taught here. God bless you all, Jo | |
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| From: Beffers | Sent: 10/15/2002 1:01 AM | | Pillar, though I can appreciate your responses and the wealth of spiritual bread contained therein, I appeal to your whit and wisdom. Please confine your answers to the topic at hand. I asked for your input on specific questions about baptism written in messages #32 and #35. I'm curious as to why you won't answer them plainly and most bewildered as to why you're ignoring simple Scripture? If I am to understand your position, then you must respond clearly to questions posed. Since you are so adamant on your position, one would think you'd be happy to cover all the bases and put too rest the concerns I have regarding your belief (or lack thereof) of water baptism, and to explain the apparent contradictions too your belief. One more thing, if you refuse or ignore my plea, I would have no alternative but to question everything you post in this community. Make it a point to explain what has been presented too you. It goes a long way toward your credibility as a truth bearer. God bless! Beffers | Reply
| | | From: pillar | Sent: 10/15/2002 9:02 AM | | and why is it you do not know what is being said in scripture? joie believes shes not under the law and you believe that you are.i believe in that there is another law not the carnal one, for the law was changed, so we all speak different things and our understanding is different, my knowledge comes from God through the Word, both you and joie follow the letter of the word, this is why theres an agreement on both parts on this subject. till you turn to the Lord the vail will be upon your hearts. pillar | | |
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I just love this answer Beffers gave to Pillar: | From: Beffers | Sent: 10/15/2002 10:44 AM | | Thank you for the rebuke Pillar. Now that you have spoken your peace, will you answer my questions? If the veil is to be lifted from my heart, you must be prepared to answer the concerns I have as to your interpretations. That process starts by answering questions the "blind" (myself) may have as to apparent contradictions. If you aren't interested in providing me with these answers, then stop preaching your message. If you aren't willing to be respectful by making clear your position, too me you're but a clanging cymbal. What kind of preacher would not want to make clear his position by leaving the outsider (me) hanging as to the meanings of the Scripture I've given? My opinion (to this point) is you have no answer to these verses. My advice my friend is to be very careful ministering to others with your message when you can't even interpret what is clearly written in God's Word; especially when the meaning is clear. If I'm wrong in my understanding of these Scriptures, show me where, or else be silent. As for the "under the law" statement, you better than anyone should know Joie and I are at opposite poles on that subject. I don't believe she understands the meaning of "under the law." But be that as it may, I've always pretty much agreed with your views on the law. I believe the only time we are "under the law" is when we sin. This includes not having faith in what Jesus did for us, not just actions. So please don't tell me Joie and I are in agreement, okay? "...so we all speak different things and our understanding is different, my knowledge comes from God through the Word..." If this is true, just give me the meanings of the verses posted, answer my questions and be done with it. If what you say is true, why the procrastination to give me a simple response too my requests? God bless! Beffers | |
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| Pillar, are you suggesting that Phillip's baptism of the eunuch was invalid? Are you saying Phillip didn't pay any attention to Jesus' commands and baptized his own way? Read Acts 8:32-35. Phillip preached "Jesus" to the eunuch. What was his response? Verse 37 says he "believed Jesus was the Son of God." What happened next? Verse 38 says they went into the water. Phillip did exactly what you and I are too do Pillar, preach Jesus. The Gospel! The good news of Jesus' sacrifice on the cross. What happens when this is preached Pillar? What are the results when a person truly understands? Repentance happens that's what. The conviction of the Holy Spirit. What follows? Baptism! This was clearly exercised by Phillip in obedience to the "great commission." But you deny this. Why? Let's make this easy, explain the baptism of the eunuch. If you don't believe in water baptism, explain Acts 8:26-39. Prove the "water" mentioned in this story is not literal but figurative ("word"). Beffers | Reply
| | | From: joie | Sent: 10/15/2002 4:14 PM | | Now, Beffers, I must say you are doing some find preaching on this subject. This is truly great. On this we are in full agreement. Now I want to show you something. To me when one does this, they are very hypocritical with God's Word; a dangerous stand to take. I want to show you what pillar has done here. I have seen this done by other preachers on other Scriptures to prove a lie. Look:
19:4) Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of
repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe
on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
what now do you need for prove (pillar)
Now I ask you pillar, why did you stop there? Why did you not quote verse 5? Why not finish this thought? I will tell you why ---- it is because you knew it proved you wrong. I would be afraid to be this dishonest with God's Word. Here is verse 5--- When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. v 6--And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
Now, there is where most people stop. There is what is blocking a world of people from going on with God. That is what will cause their 'branch' to dry up and die --- thus causing Jesus to eventually CUT THAT DEAD BRANCE OFF HIS TREE --- PILE IT UP---- AND SEND WOMEN TO SET THEM ON FIRE AND BURN THEM. THIS IS GOD'S WORD. | | |
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Everything you are saying is all wet, because only the Jews were insturcted to repent, because they were the only one's under the LAW, no Gentiles ! Eric
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Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail. |
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Forgoodness sakes, Eric. That is too foolish to even speak. Everyone was commanded to repent and be baptized, for everyone has sinned, even those who were not under that law. You surely must never read the Word of God. You would be safer, at the judgment, to just not try to teach anything than to teach these lies. | And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning. | | Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost. | | Forasmuch then as God gave them (Gentiles) --the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God? | | When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life. |
| And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: |
| And how I kept back nothing that was profitable unto you, but have showed you, and have taught you publicly, and from house to house, | | Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ. |
| But showed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance. | | For these causes the Jews caught me in the temple, and went about to kill me. |
(Notice, the Jews wanted to kill Paul for teaching repentance to the Gentiles. Where does this leave you?) Now, Eric, there is plenty of Scripture proving that everyone has to come to God the very same way. There is no difference in anyone. We all are one. We all must be saved the very same way. There is not one way for Jews and another way for gentiles. That is lies. You are teaching rebellion to God and lies. You truly need to repent yourself and be baptized for the remission of your sins. God is not going to hold this lightly, that you still reject truth and teach lies and rebellion, after I have proven so many times to you, with The Word of God, that you are telling lies. But I see no desire for truth in almost everyone I deal with today. You are all set in your own ways and determined to stay that way and be God's enemy until you die. But I have done what God tells me to do. I have proven the TRUTH with the Written Word of God. Now this is truly why so many of you HATE THE TRUTH, THE KING JAMES WORD of God, BECAUSE IT PROVES ALL YOUR JUNKIE teachings to be just that, lies of man. Now if you have truth, prove it. Write a Verse of Scripture here, saying what you said. You know what? It can't be done and you know it. That is why you always leave and don't come back till this cools off, after I show you that you are teaching lies. |
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Reply to # 5 ! Jo the great love of my life, common sense tells me that you booth got wet, but what great spiritual knowledge did you receive, if any is what I want to know ? Eric
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Eric, sweetheart. I learned the great joy of God's Spiritual presence coming and blessing us. My great spiritual knowledge comes from studying the Word of God. That is how He intended it. You see Baptism from a carnal, natural sense. Therefore you cannot understand it. You cannot receive the blessing from it. You see it as 'just getting wet'. I see it as the Apostles did, having my sins washed away by the Word of God, which said, REPENT AND BE BAPTIZED IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS. DARE YOU ATTEMPT TO SET UP ANOTHER WAY AND EXPECT GOD TO HONOUR YOUR REJECTION OF HIS WAY, AND LET YOU GET IN ON YOUR OWN WAY? He did not do this for his son, Adam, and he will not do it for anyone. Jo |
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Reply to # 17 ! All I am saying is that water baptizm was for the Jews and only the Jews ! Jo you know I'z Luvs U ! Eric
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Reply to # 15 How many times Jo do I have to teach you, that Acts 11:15 etc. is a spiritual conversation, that the Jews were surprised and finally understood that the Holy Ghost is in everyone, when you are baptized in water all you get is wet, my Luv. Eric
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| | | From: joie | Sent: 9/11/2006 5:00 PM |
You are still calling God a lie, Eric. God showed that Gentiles have to be saved exactly the same way as Jews. There is NO DIFFERENCE. Correct water baptism gets your sins REMITTED. Now that is necessary to have salvation. you can fight this all your life, but in the end it will cost you your soul, for you are at war with the eternal God and his chosen plan of salvation. You must be baptized in His Son's Name to get your sins washed away. and I luvs u too, it is why I am trying to get you to truth and salvation. |
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