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From: joie (Original Message)

Sent: 1/5/2003 9:43 PM

If You 'see' NATURAL water; as just natural water, then your NATURAL, fleshly mind tells you this water is natural - it could NOT POSSIBLY be Pure Water- it could not possibly have any power to wash away sins--

It could not possibly wash our bodies with Pure Water --- for it is natural water-- our bodies are natural bodies --

So now I ask you, all this 'natural' stuff in YOUR mind has blocked your natural mind from seeing this in the Spiritual.

See? It is solid truth. Your natural, fleshly mind tells you this natural water cannot be pure water; it cannot wash our bodies Spirituallly; it cannot remit our sins/ Now admit,this is how most of you are thinking about all of this.

BUT, the truth is this: God's own word, saying be water baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins -- His word SANCTIFIES that water - thereby making it HOLY, PURE WATER. See, It is Spiritual; not natural.

If you see it as natural, it is because your mind is natural and fleshly.

See, I see it as spiritual; so my mind is spiritual. I know God's own Word sanctifies that water and causes the act to do what He said it would do - which is REMIT SINS.

His own word, being believed and said at the Baptism - causes that water to be the pure water He requires to wash our bodies as we bury our sins in the depths of that sea. It is spiritual; not natural. If you see that water as only natural water, and those words as only natural, fleshly words, then it proves your mind is only natural and fleshly.

For you are not letting FAITH let that baptism in water do and be what God said it was. God said this act of being baptized in water in the name of Jesus would REMIT OUR SINS. See, faith believes this and it is Spiritual.

If you cannot BELIEVE this, you have no true FAITH, - the reason being you are still under law, which is not of FAITH.

That is why you cannot believe this.

That word of God made that water and act be Holy, just as His presence made that ground be Holy Ground. It was naturally just ground; but God made it Holy.

That water is just water; but God's presence make it Holy.

That is why the APOSTLES were so vehement to get people baptized just as soon as they believed = to get their sins REMITTED - CAST INTO THE DEPTHS OF THAT SEA (WATER).

Annainias told Paul, WHY TARRIEST thou (in other words, make haste, don't waste time)--- arise and be baptized and WASH AWAY THY SINS.

To deny this is to call God a lie.

From: joie

Sent: 1/5/2003 10:12 PM

And YE need to obey Acts 2:38-

Acts 2

2:38: Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Ac 22:16: And now why tarriest thou ? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

From: joie

Sent: 1/5/2003 10:14 PM

That pure water is the water one is baptized in; it is pure because it is sanctified by the Holy ghost as the words are said which God said to say. It is sanctified by the very persence of God; just as the 'ground' Moses stood on was Holy Ground.

It was only Holy because of the very presence of God. That same ground would not have been any different from the ground in your yard, except for the fact that at that moment God chose it to use it for His Holy purpose.

God chose water baptism to 'wash away our sins' with. That makes it PURE WATER.

From: apostolicminister

Sent: 4/11/2003 1:28 AM

Acts 2:38
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 8:16
(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
Acts 10:48
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.
Acts 19:5
When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

It was the name preached: Acts 9:27
But Barnabas took him, and brought him to the apostles, and declared unto them how he had seen the Lord in the way, and that he had spoken to him, and how he had preached boldly at Damascus in the name of Jesus.

It is the name of power: Acts 16:18
And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. And he came out the same hour.

Mark 16:17
And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

It is the name spoken: Acts 9:29
And he spake boldly in the name of the Lord Jesus, and disputed against the Grecians: but they went about to slay him.

It is the name we gather in: 1 Cor 5:4
In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,

Matt 18:20
For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

It is the name by which you are justifed: 1 Cor 6:11
And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

We are to do all in that Name: Col 3:17
And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

The name to use in prayer: James 5:14
Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:

John 14:14
If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

The name to believe: John 3:18
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

John 1:12
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

It is the name of the Holy Ghost: John 14:26
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

It is the name of the Father: John 5:43
I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

At the name, EVERYONE will bow: Phil 2:10
That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

It is the name of His people - doesn't the bride take the name of the bridegroom?
Acts 15:14
Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.

Acts 15:17
That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.

It is for His name: Rom 1:5
By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:

We thank His name: Heb 13:15
By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name.

Faith in His name: Acts 3:16
And his name through faith in his name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all.

It is God’s saving name: Acts 4:12
Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

It is the highest name: Philippians 2:9-10
Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

And with all that, some will assume we are not to use that name at baptism?

Rev 2:13
I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name,...

Rev 3:8
I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.

About Matt 28:19 - #1.;
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and(kai) of the Son, and(kai) of the Holy Ghost:
STRONGS - 'both' - 2532 kai (kahee); apparently, a primary particle, having a copulative and sometimes also a cumulative force; and, also, even, so then, too, etc.; often used in connection (or composition) with other particles or small words:
KJV-- and, also, both, but, even, for, if, or, so, that, then, therefore, when, yet.

It can be translated as "and" or as "even" (in the sense of "that is" or "which is the same as"). The KJV translates kai as "even" in several other places, including the phrases "God, even the Father" (I Corinthians 15:24; James 3:9) and "God, even our Father" (I Thessalonians 3:13).

Now if you insist on 'kai' referring to more than one, please explain the below scriptures;

Gal 1:4
Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and(kai) our Father: (If more than one, Father is excluded from being God. Note; the NIV & TAB render the passage 'our God and Father'.)

Col 2:2
That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and(kai) of the Father, and(kai) of Christ; (If more than one, your holy trinity has become a quintuplet . Note; the NIV translates 'the mystery of God, namely, Christ'. The TAB translates 'God [which is] Christ'.)

Jude 1:4
For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and(kai) our Lord Jesus Christ. (If more than one, we have two Lord's which directly contradicts the scripture teachings. Note; the NIV translates 'Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord'. The TAB translates 'our sole Master and Lord, Jesus Christ'.)

At the most, the use of kai in these cases denotes a distinction of roles, manifestations, or names by which man knows God. In at least some cases the use of kai actually identifies Jesus as the same being as God - the same being as the Father.

Acts 2:36
Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both(kai) Lord and Christ.

#2. - Matt 28:19
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Websters dictionary defines "OF" as "belonging to".........in the name belonging to the Father, and belonging to the Son, and belonging to the Holy Ghost. What name belongs to all?

Son- Luke 1:31 "shalt call his name Jesus" - JESUS
Father- John 5:43 "I am come in my Father's name" - JESUS
Holy Ghost- John 14:26 "will send in my name" - JESUS

Ιν Ξεσθσ Ναμε

From:

Robbob·

Sent: 4/11/2003 8:59 AM

Jesus answered and said to him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God."

Except you are born from the truth, you can not understand the things of God

Nicodemus said to Him, "How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born, can he?"
Yes you can be reborn from this same Word

Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. except you are born from this Word of Truth, you will not understand the Word
"That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. ⁷ "Do not be amazed that I said to you, 'You must be born again.' That which is born from the letter of these natural words are born flesh.

They that are born from God's Spirit are they that the truth has been revealed to them.So with the mind I serve the Lord and the words become spirit or understanding of the truth.

From:

Robbob·

Sent: 4/12/2003 9:25 AM

How else would God clean his church from all filthiness of the flesh, by the pure water, and why is it water opens the eyes of the blind, and what comes out of the Lord?37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.
38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living WATER.
39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
Is not this Water have the Spirit,and how does he clean the church?

23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of WATER by the word,
27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

And what of this woman7 There cometh a woman of Samaria to draw WATER: Jesus saith unto her, Give me to drink.
8 (For his disciples were gone away unto the city to buy meat.)
9 Then saith the woman of Samaria unto him, How is it that thou, being a Jew, askest drink of me, which am a woman of Samaria? for the Jews have no dealings with the Samaritans.
10 Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living WATER.
11 The woman saith unto him, Sir, thou hast nothing to draw with, and the well is deep: from whence then hast thou that living WATER?
12 Art thou greater than our father Jacob, which gave us the well, and drank thereof himself, and his children, and his cattle?
13 Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this WATER shall thirst again:
14 But whosoever drinketh of the WATER that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the WATER that I shall give him shall be in him a well of WATER springing up into everlasting life.
15 The woman saith unto him, Sir, give me this WATER, that I thirst not, neither come hither to draw.
This woman was drinking in from the old covenant, but the Lord would give us to drink from the new, the new covenant is that what was shed on the cross by his blood and what is the blood that was shed?1 JOHN 1
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the BLOOD of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

ACTS 2
33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath SHED forth this, which ye now see and hear.
ROMANS 5
5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is SHED abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

1 JOHN 5
6 This is he that came by WATER AND BLOOD, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by WATER AND BLOOD. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
JOHN 19
34 But one of the soldiers with a spear PIERCED his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.

You notice that the blood(holy Ghost) and Water(word) was shed for us and this is the baptism in the Lord, let his Spirit cleanes us, and our bodies washed with pure water, the living waters, now every one has there own body, and do you know what your body is?

From: joie

Sent: 4/13/2003 10:49 PM

Robbob,

Something you are overlooking: Baptism is not mentioned in the O.T. So it is not one of the O.T. things which was changed. It was not there to be changed.

Sure all the things you mention show a type of 'water'. but there are many other uses of these words in His Word. You cannot do away with water Baptism because of these uses.

When Phillip baptized the eunuch they BOTH went down into a body of water and the both came back up out of water.

Now I say you would have a hard time making them go down into and up out of the type of water you mention.

When it said by the washing of water by the Word - this is saying that by obeying and saying the Words over Baptism which are told us, that Water becomes Holy Water and washes away their sins.

There is not one Word in the Scripture teaching it as you do. It does not say that Baptism is this type of Water you mention. Paul did not teach it this way; Peter did not; Phillip did not; John the Baptist did not. He was in the River doing it. Jesus was actually baptized in a RIVER.

Now I fully believe Peter did the same thing; baptized people in a River. So did Paul. When Paul was told, arise and be baptized and wash away your sins -- tell me, take the types of water you mention, and show us how that was accomplished?

You do wrest the Scriptures to do away with an important element of Salvation.

From:

Isaiah·

Sent: 4/13/2003 11:00 PM

Yes joie it was a river and it even had a name-

Mr 1:5

And there went out unto him all the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins.

Reply

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Delete Message 16 of 16 in Discussion

From: joie

Sent: 9/19/2004 11:43 PM

Let's send this one back again. It is different and something we need to re-study.

From: joie

Sent: 7/15/2002 6:39 PM

I want to tell you something God has been showing me. I will not go into much detail right now. I want to make a full message on this very soon. I am studying it; also I am very tired right now.

I will just say this short summary of what I am seeing. Maybe you all can help me get more into this.

The NATURAL things are on our part; our side. What ever we do here is NATURAL. That is all we are capable of.

What is SPIRITUAL is on God's part; his side. He is the only one who can accomplish anything Spiritual. He is a SPIRIT; so whatsoever He does is SPIRITUAL. We are natural; so whatsoever we do is natural.

Only when it is accepted by God and acted on by Him in the Heavenly Word, does it become Spiritual.

God showed me this as I finished the message on foot washing. I want to do this message in full and place it with that message.

Just listen to this; ~~~ we go get Baptized in water in the name of Jesus Christ. That is a completely NATURAL ACT. I, a natural person go into natural water; a natural man says words and puts me under natural water. I get naturally wet.   So what was accomplished?

ABSOLUTELY     NOTHING ~~~~~~~   That is UNLESS   Almighty God accepts my repentance and sees I am sincere; then in the Heavenly Word, He, a Spirit remits my sins. Now that is where the spiritual comes in. Not what I did; what God did. These two acts are MARRIED. A female (natural) and a male ( spirit).

Now, I go down, get natural water; put it into a natural basin; then I naturally wash my sister's feet. What is accomplished?   Absolutely NOTHING; ~~~~~~~    UNLESS the Almighty God accepts what I did as sincere and right in His sight;;;;    then He places me as an obedient handmaid, in line to be his bride. He annoints the person whose feet was washed, for their work in the Lord. That is the spiritual side of the foot washing.

We eat a piece of natural bread; we drink a natural cup of wine; what is accomplished?   Nothing ~~~ unless the Almighty God accepts what we did; then He applies the blood and body of Jesus to me; that is the spiritual side of the act. That act is then MARRIED. The natural and the Spiritual coming together to cause me to become a spiritual person; fit to marry Jesus.

That is how this bread is the body of Jesus; it is done in Heaven. That is how this wine is the blood of Jesus; it is done in Heaven. To my human mouth and stomach, it is NOT the actual blood of Jesus; but in Heaven   it is. I never understood this until a few days ago.

God bless you all.

   p.s. I did not ask for the lady with the wings; it is a gift; so I accepted it.

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