MSN Home  |  My MSN  |  Hotmail
Sign in to Windows Live ID Web Search:   
go to MSNGroups 
Free Forum Hosting
 
Important Announcement Important Announcement
The MSN Groups service will close in February 2009. You can move your group to Multiply, MSN’s partner for online groups. Learn More
Build on the True Foundation[email protected] 
  
What's New
  
  Welcome  
  Welcome, by Isaiah  
  All topics  
  Pictures  
  Holy KJV Bible  
  Links  
  Posting guide  
  EMMANUEL  
  Emmanuel--Part two  
  Proof of Emmanuel  
  In The Beginnig  
  Question&Answer  
  Wel./new members  
  Testimonies  
  on trinity  
  On Jesus only  
  Jesus  
  Baptism  
  Gifts of Spirit  
  Law & Sabbath  
  Grace  
  Peace  
  Salvation  
  Eve  
  Adam; Satan  
  The Beginning  
  God and Jesus  
  Day of Lord  
  Church: Israel  
  Genesis  
  The WORD  
  Women  
  Rapture?  
  Revelation  
  Beast Heads  
  Fall of OT  
  Psalm  
  Special Verses  
  Prayer Request  
  Dake's Studies  
  Let's Praise Him  
  Dreams /Visions  
  Family  
  SACRED NAME  
  gift messages  
  Ellen White  
  Holidays  
  Heresy  
  Triva Board  
  Health Tips  
  For Unbelievers  
  Birthdays  
    
  
  
  Tools  
 
Church: Israel : Did Paul rob Churches?
Choose another message board
 
     
Reply
 Message 1 of 5 in Discussion 
From: joie  (Original Message)Sent: 8/29/2006 3:35 AM
From: joie  (Original Message) Sent: 8/31/2005 12:27 AM

~ Robbed Churches? ~

What was Paul speaking of in 11Cor. 11:8? 2Cor 11:7 Have I committed an offence in abasing myself that ye might be exalted, because I have preached to you the gospel of God freely? 11:8 I robbed other churches, taking wages of them, to do you service.

Paul is showing here that taking wages of a church, was considered robbing them. But why did he do this thing? Was it for himself? No. He said he took from them in order to do service to the Corinthian church. Paul was not taking these wages for himself. He was using the money, [if it was money], to help others. Every time it is mentioned that Paul received any such thing, he said it was for the help of poor saints.

But notice that he also considered this to be the same as robbery. It was only showing and teaching that when a man does receive wages for feeding the flock of God, they are committing robbery. Paul had to do these things in order to teach us the full truth of all spiritual matters. Paul knew he was not doing this thing for his own profit, so he could do it as a teacher. He was using the things other churches gave to him for the help of those in need. He makes it very clear that he labored day and night with his own hands to supply his needs and also the needs of any who worked with him. So Paul is not going against this principal here and taking wages for himself. He did no such thing. He only took from those who were prospering at the time, to help those in need, for this is the principal of the NT Church of God. They had all things in common. It was an equality. This is the very heart of true Christianity.

When some receive more than others and do not share, it is not the true Christianity. When a paid preacher lives so lavish, as many do, while his people lack, this is of Satan.

2Cor 11:9 And when I was present with you, and wanted, I was chargeable to no man: for that which was lacking to me the brethren which came from Macedonia supplied: and in all things I have kept myself from being burdensome unto you, and so will I keep myself.

Paul was living by faith as he taught others to do. When he had need, other Christians were helping him. He did not go into a church and ask for help. It came about by pure faith. God had moved on the ones who did help him. It is not wrong to allow Christians to help you. It is wrong to work for a salary in the ministry. This is not faith, and it is not equality, so it is not Christian.

2Cor 11:12 But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we. 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 11:15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

Notice, something astounding here. Paul is saying that he lived this way to cut off occasion from those who desired occasion. They wished to glory in what they received for their ministry. But he said they should be found even as Paul was. But now look at what he said about these people: They are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.

This is a big statement! It is saying that the men who lifted themselves up to take wages from the churches, because they ‘ministered�?to them are actually false apostles, deceitful workers, and they are only transforming themselves as apostles of Christ.

He said as Satan transforms himself as an angel of light, so his ministers transform themselves as ministers of righteousness. But he said their end will be according to their works, which is taking wages from the churches. So in the end, they will be burned up. They have sawn to the flesh, so the will of the flesh, reap corruption.

2Cor 11:16 I say again, Let no man think me a fool; if otherwise, yet as a fool receive me, that I may boast myself a little. 11:17 That which I speak, I speak it not after the Lord, but as it were foolishly, in this confidence of boasting. 11:18 Seeing that many glory after the flesh, I will glory also. 11:19 For ye suffer fools gladly, seeing ye yourselves are wise. 11:20 For ye suffer, if a man bring you into bondage, if a man devour you, if a man take of you, if a man exalt himself, if a man smite you on the face.

Now notice here that Paul said he is going to act as a fool for a while to show them how foolish the things of these people are. They are boasters. So they are fools. They glory after the flesh, so they are fools. When churches glory in how large their group is, how fancy their building is, how much money they take in, etc, they are glorying after the flesh. So they are fools. This is what Paul is teaching here.

But notice the real whammy. He said they accept fools gladly, so he mocks them by saying for you are ‘wise�?/I>. He said they allow it or accept it [suffer] if a man bring you into bondage--- in other words, back under law..... if a man devour you -- in other words, taking from them and teaching them false doctrine, IF A MAN TAKE OF YOU....this is the false apostles taking wages of the churches for THEMSELVES. They are taking from those very people they ‘claim�?to be caring for by feeding them the Word of God. But in actuality, they are only seeking for their money. These people can exalt themselves and even smite the people and take from them, and they will just glory in these false teachers.

But Paul said yet I have preached the Word of God to you FREELY and you act as though I have offended you. Then he goes on to tell them the many things he has suffered for the Word of God. He said if I glory after these things, it is as a fool. Yet you pay men to come in and deceive you and suffer him gladly. So it is today.

People, Paul is not going to say in every other Scripture that it is wrong to take money or pay for doing the work of God, and then turn right around and take wages of churches for himself! He did no such thing! Paul did not cross what the Prophets of old had said. He did not cross what Jesus had taught. They said come buy and drink milk of the Word, without price and without money. Paul is not going against that here. The Word of God is not in conflict with itself. Paul clearly showed here that when men take of the people they are supposed to be feeding or ministering to, that they are FALSE APOSTLES, Satan’s ministers transforming themselves as ministers of Christ.

This chapter is the most clear of them all saying it is WRONG TO TAKE PAY FOR DOING THE WORK OF THE MINISTRY! AMEN. Only Satan’s ministers take pay for their ‘labour�?

By: Jo smith

8-30-05



First  Previous  2-5 of 5  Next  Last 
Reply
 Message 2 of 5 in Discussion 
From: joieSent: 8/29/2006 3:39 AM
From: Isaiah Sent: 9/3/2005 6:01 AM



Next, Yes, we have a already pointed out that Paul did this in order to help the Corinthian church. Yes, but he also called it robbing them. Why? Because he called it 'wages'. If it had just been free will offerings, it was not robbing.

But since he considered it wages, he called it robbing. But Later Paul did not do this thing. He actually asked the Corinthians to forgive him this wrong.


Paul was not totally free of the law at the beginning of his walk with God. Jesus himself said to Paul, it is hard for the to kick against the pricks.

Now what does this mean? The 'pricks' are the briars and thorns the Word speaks so much about. This means LAW.

Paul had a hard time getting free of the law. Peter had an even harder time.

But Paul is the one the message of Grace was committed to . He did not get all of this at one pop. It came by as Isaiah prophesied -- here a little, and there a little, verse upon verse, etc.

So Paul finally got hold of it. that the NT ministers did not take tithes of anyone. He said the Levites had a command of God to take tithes of their brethern. But the NT ministers do not take tithes of anyone.

They are not set up with wages as the Levites were. It is of law. And you want Law? See at first, Paul was thinking same as back when he was under the law, that the ministers were set up with wages. But he had to show the fall of that stuff.

If you take wages for doing the work of God, it is the mark of the beast and of the law and causes you to fall from Grace, or faith.

No salvation is of the law.

11Cor. 12:13. For what is it wherein ye were inferior to other churches, except it be that I myself was not burdensome to you? forgive me this wrong.

Read it. FORGIVE ME THIS WRONG.

He was not burdensome to them, for he let the other churches provide for him as he ministered to the Corinthians.

Now, get this, Paul was spending his entire life, every day, every week. every hour in the work of God. He was not making a living for himself. Yet he still depended solely upon gifts of love, except for this one time he accepted wages of them. He called this robbing them. He asked forgiveness for this wrong.

So now what?


Reply
 Message 3 of 5 in Discussion 
From: joieSent: 8/29/2006 3:41 AM
From: joie Sent: 9/9/2005 5:21 PM
<NOBR>1Cor 16:1</NOBR> Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye.
<NOBR>1co 16:2</NOBR> Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.
<NOBR>1co 16:3</NOBR> And when I come, whomsoever ye shall approve by your letters, them will I send to bring your liberality unto Jerusalem.
<NOBR>1co 16:4</NOBR> And if it be meet that I go also, they shall go with me.


Now I know that lots of carnal hirelings misuse this Scripture to say you should go to church on Sunday,,,,,and that you should give them your money on this day.

What hog-wash.  and they get PAID to tell these lies.

A simple child could read better than that>  This is saying that they were to get together a good bounty or what we call 'love offering'  to send to the hurting Saints at Jerusalem.  Paul did not even want them taking it up after he arrived there.

Paul told them to say whom they wanted to go take this money or gifts to those in Jerusalem.  Then Paul said  IF IT BE MEET THAT I SHOULD GO WITH THEM,  they shall go with me. 

Now that is tooo clear that this gift was NOT MEANT FOR PAUL.  It is also very clear that Paul was going to let others take this gift to the people in Jerusalem.  It was NOT GOING TO BE SENT BY ONE MAN ALONE....THEY WOULD HAVE PROOF THAT IT WAS DELIVERED TO THE SAINTS IT WAS SENT TO.

Now let these mad-dog ...money-hungry..liars...of hirelings today wrestle with this truth!


Reply
 Message 4 of 5 in Discussion 
From: joieSent: 8/29/2006 3:44 AM
From: joie Sent: 9/9/2005 11:18 PM
 
Do you know what made the foolish virgins be foolish?  It was this very thing of buying and selling the things of God.  sure it was.
 
Jesus came and shut that door.  Then the foolish came knocking and asking to be let in. They went asking the wise virgins to GIVE them some of their oil.  See, they knew these wise ones had been GIVING OUT THE THINGS OF GOD FREELY AS HE TOLD US TO DO.
 
They were told no.   go back to those who SELL.........and BUY.  .  yourselves some oil.   ......so while they went to try and BUY some of it....for they really thought it should be bought and sold.....Jesus shut that door.  Then those foolish ones came and tried to get into the wedding.....
 
 But know what Jesus told them?   He said depart into everlasting darkness, for I KNOW YOU NOT.
 
See this entire message is about BUYING AND SELLING THE OIL OF GOD.
 
Now do you not realize that when you PAY a man, you are BUYING HIS SERVICES?  So if you PAY a man to pastor a church and preach, you are BUYING HIS SERVICES. .......so it is not a work for God,,,,,,it is a secular JOB.
 
when he accepts the PAY, he is SELLING HIS SERVICES.  He is selling the oil of God.
I am telling you all, THIS IS THE MARK OF THE BEAST.......ALL WHO HAVE IT ARE DOOMED TO HELLFIRE.......THAT IS WHY JESUS DID NOT OPEN THAT DOOR AND LET THEM IN.......HE WILL NOT KNOW YOU UNDER THESE CIRCUMSTANCES.
 
Now I ask you Jazz,   is it worth it to you .....to LOSE your soul.....to pay that hireling...who is not really giving you any BREAD FROM HEAVEN.....HE IS ONLY GIVING YOU SOME SILLY .....CRUMBS.

Reply
 Message 5 of 5 in Discussion 
From: joieSent: 8/29/2006 3:45 AM
That little 'above' message is so powerful and great and hidden truth,  that I almost think it needs to be a total new message, to make sure some people will read it.
 
You all need to learn this hidden TRUTH.  before it is too late to repent.

First  Previous  2-5 of 5  Next  Last 
Return to Church: Israel