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| | From:  Tweety134 (Original Message) | Sent: 7/20/2008 12:18 PM |
Many 7th Day Adventist say that the Pharisees gave these commands and that is why they do not follow them. But we shall see from this that GOD gave these commands to MOSES. AND THEY WERE TO BE FOLLOWED. This lesson will come in many parts. Due to its size. Tweety 2,713 Commands in the Law of Moses These commands do not include the 106 in Genesis, only those beginning with the life of Moses. They are divided into 4 sections, as follows: 1. The 203 commands to Moses before the Ten Commandments were given. Most of these were personal commands directing Moses in his war with Pharaoh, the exodus, and the journey to Sinai (Exodus 3:5,10,14-16,18; Exodus 4:3-4,6-7,12,15-17,19,21-22,27; Exodus 6:6,11,13,29; Exodus 7:2,9,15,19; Exodus 8:1,5,16,20; Exodus 9:1,8,13,22; Exodus 10:1,12,21; Exodus 11:2; Exodus 12:2-27,43-49; Exodus 13:2-3,5-16; Exodus 14:2,13,15-16,26; Exodus 15:25; Exodus 16:4-5,9,16,19,23,25-26,29,32-33; Exodus 17:5-6,14; Exodus 19:3,10,12-15,20-24). 2. The Ten Commandments, including 37 statements (Exodus 20:3-17; Deut. 5:1-21). 3. The 155 commands in the first section of the Mosaic covenant-those between the Ten Commandments and the dedication and sealing of the book of the covenant with the blood of animals (Exodus 20:18-24:8). 4. The 2,345 commands which are additions to the book of the law of Moses (Exodus 24:1-Deut. 34:12). In this section there are commands to Moses (Exodus 32:34; Exodus 33:1-3,5; Exodus 34:1-3,27; Exodus 35:4-19; Exodus 40:1-15; Numbers 1:1-4; Numbers 2:1-34; Numbers 3:14-16,38; Numbers 11:16-17; Numbers 12:4; Numbers 13:1-20; Numbers 14:25,28,42; Numbers 16:21; Numbers 17:1-5; Numbers 20:8,12-13; Numbers 21:8-9,16,34; Numbers 25:17; Numbers 26:1-4,52-56; Numbers 27:15-23; Numbers 31:2; Numbers 34:1-15; Numbers 34:16-29; Numbers 35:1-15; Deut. 1:6-8; Deut. 2:1-37; Deut. 3:1-11,23-29; Deut. 4:14; Deut. 10:1-11; Deut. 31:14-22,30; Deut. 32:49-50); Aaron (Leviticus 10:6-7; Numbers 18:1-8; Numbers 20:25-26); sons of Uzziel Leviticus 10:4); Eleazer (Numbers 16:36-40); Korah (Numbers 16:6-18); Joshua (Deut. 3:21-22; Deut. 31:23); Levites (Numbers 25:4-9; Numbers 31:24-27); Israel (Exodus 34:11-16; Numbers 11:18; Numbers 16:13-16; Numbers 16:24-26,45-50; Numbers 18:22; Deut. 3:18-20; Deut. 6:9-10; Deut. 10:14-22; Deut. 11:2-9; Deut. 17:8-11; Deut. 19:1-13; Deut. 31:6-8,28-30; Deut. 32:7,46); nations (Deut. 32:43); and heaven and earth (Deut. 32:1). In all, we have 2,277 commands embodied in 445 laws of Moses, which are listed below. They were the rules of religion and morals for all Israel until the Messiah should come to make the new covenant (see <TOPIC:Old and New Covenant Contrasts, Eighty-five>). Many commands are repeated in Scripture, so they are listed here in groups. In the case of the Ten Commandments, for instance, 225 statements repeat some phase of them. |
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| | | From: Dovey | Sent: 8/6/2008 2:12 AM |
Amen WOG! Grace is the freedom to obey God from the heart.  Grace is NOT freedom to disobey God' Commandments. 1Jo 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. DOVEY |
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Grace is freedom from law. It is just that, GRACE. Grace is IMPOSSIBLE UNDER LAW, FOR THE LAW DEMANDS PUNISHMENT TO THOSE WHO DISOBEY. IF YOU ARE UNDER LAW, you will be disobedient, especially when you try to keep it apart from having the BAPTISM OF THE HOLY GHOST. I am yet to hear of any adventist church which teaches this baptism of the holy ghost. they do not even pronounce the words. It is impossible to live a righteous and holy life on your own accord, apart from having the Holy Ghost abiding in you. it is not there because you go to church, It is only there when your receive the very same experience they did on the day of Pentecost. You simply do not understand and that is why you think that I am the one looking at the OT prespective. No, that is simply not true. Jesus delivered us FROM THE LAW. period. there are two different LAWS in Scripture. I have told you this many times. That old law, the law of Moses, given on Mt Sinai, is that old law of sin and death. by it, the people were brought under CONDEMNATION AND THEREBY, DESTROYED BY GOD. that was the whole purpose for placing them under that law. Why is it that you refuse to acknowledge that Abraham was NOT UNDER LAW? wHY WILL YOU NOT SEE THAT? yOU KNOW it denies your cult's teachings, that is why. If you truly think you need to obey that law, why do you break that 4th one every week? now you need to get to this, and stop all this other stuff, for you cannot understand a thing about it. You need to just study that alone. for it is your entire religion. But you do not keep it at all. You need to stop all of this, and SEARCH THE WORD FOR HOW TO KEEP IT. You are guilty for you claim to do it, but do not obey it. Now if you truly were under that law, you have already been killed a long time ago. It is only the grace covenant, in force today, which is holding God's wrath back for all of you rebels who leave grace and go back to law. and think you mix them. you cannot mix them. the law has no MERCY and grace is MERCY. You show me where there is MERCY under law? it is impossible. One day, God will judge you all by that LAW, AND YOU WILL ALL BE GUILTY AND DESTROYED. THEN YOU WILL WISH YOU HAD LISTENED TO THIS OLD WOMAN INSTEAD OF FIGHTING ME ALL THE TIME. dOVEY I will ask you, WHY HAVE JESUS dies for us, if he was only going to throw us right back under that law of condemnation? He could just as well have done away with it without all of that, couldn't he? No Jesus died so he COULD DELIVER US FROM THAT LAW. hIS NEW law is not the old law. the better promises are only to those who receive the promise, acts 2. Do you have it? The commandments which we live by are so far up above those ten, there is no comparesom. Why would a christian need a law saying do not kill? I have asked you this, but you refuse to come to it. We are not killers. so we do not need that law. we need, lay aside all foolish talking and jesting. and such. we live by , look not and lust. So no true Christian is going to pick up a dirty book and fill his mind with LUST. Does your law do that for you? think it over. Where does that old law say, bring every THOUGHT under subjection to christ. Now that is a much higher law, and one which no one could keep, WITHOUT THE POWER OF THE HOLY GHOST. It is nothing to refrain from killing. No murder has eternal life abiding in him . but sometimes ChristiANS need, do not bite and devour each other. do not gossip. do not slander your neighbor. heal the sick. seek the gifts of the spirit. cast out devils. Girl, this is the LAWS OF GRACE. Do you keep THEM? IF NOT, YOU ARE NOT BEING PERFECTED. It is nothing to do to keep from stealing. I have never stolen in my life. I never even think of this. I do not have to 'strive ' to keep from stealing. I could not do that. But Jesus said, freely you have received, freely give. talking to MINISTERS. It is not giving money to them. It is them giving freely what God has given to them..not money.....their gifts and messages. Does your 'sabbath-keeping' minister obey this grace command? do you? and you never will answer me about keeping that COMMANDMENT IN ACTS 10. So now, before you bark at me again, ANSWER THAT.. both of you rebels against grace...have you obeyed that COMMANDMENT? IF NOT, WHY DO YOU THINK IT SHOULD NOT BE OBEYED? WHY ARE YOU REJECTING THIS COMMANDMENT? AND REFUSING IT? AND REBELLING AGAINST IT? iT IS A COMMANDMENT OF GRACE. IT IS THE WAY INTO GRACE. THERE IS NO OTHER WAY IN. |
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Then answer the question.....why DO YOU NOT OBEY THE COMMANDMENT OF GOD IN ACTS 10? YOU WILL NEVER HAVE GRACE OR SALVATION APART FROM OBEYING THIS COMMANDMENT. OR PERHAPS YOU THINK ALL OF THE COMMANDMENTS WHICH JESUS TAUGHT ARE OF NO VALUE? YOU SURELY DO NOT OBEY THEM. DO YOU HEAL THE SICK? DO YOU CAST OUT DEVILS? DO YOU SPEAK IN TONGUES? DO YOU GIVE TO ANY WHO ASK OF THEE, SEEKING IT NOT AGAIN? ETC. |
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dOVEY, who do you think is disobeying God's commandments? You keep referring to this....so now tell me, who are you speaking about? I say you are the one disobeying. | For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, | | Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? | | And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days. |
I have shown you this a dozen times, and asked, DO YOU OBEY THIS COMMANDMENT. ANSWER IT OR STOP POSTING HERE. I MEAN THIS. I AM MORE THAN SICK OF HEARING YOU ACCUSING SOMEONE, (US, mE) OF DISOBEYING GOD'S COMMANDMENTS. i SAY, prove it. which one of his commandments are you accusing me of disobeying? You cannot prove one thing you say. so now, tell me, have you obeyed this acts 10 commandment? if not you could not possibly be in GRACE, FOR THIS IS THE WAY IN. |
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sO YOU think you obey perfectly the old law? How so? Why is it then that you do not obey the NT Commandments which give salvation? I have never said I am above the law. Stop your LYING ABOUT ME. quote where I have said that. I am not under the law. I am under grace. No one is in grace until they have been baptized into the body of Christ, and there is only one way to do this: | Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? | | Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. | | For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. |
| And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. | | For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, | | Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? | | And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days. |
This is the only way into the body of Christ or the NT Covenant. Do you obey this? do you teach this? |
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You are a liar and the truth is not in you. I am not lawless as you think. I live a holy godly life by the Spirit of the Holy Ghost. I have never dismissed the need for repentance. You are some kind of jerk. The scripture I quoted had repent in it. We also must first BELIEVE. But I ASSUME that all who pretend to be TEACHERS, such as yourself, must already KNOW THAT WE HAVE TO BELIEVE AND REPENT. but that is not the full matter. I say the old covenant because the Word of God says it. | For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof |
| In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away. |
| But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: |
| For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory. |
| For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth. | | For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious. | | Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech: | | And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: | | But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same veil untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which veil is done away in Christ. | | But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the veil is upon their heart. |
Now if you wish to discuss with me, stop trying to judge me and speak your false witness and lies. That is not of God. It is certainly not obeying his commandments. But this is what I have always run into from you who 'claim' so hotly to be keepers of the law. bullcrapt. You are full of lies and abominations of God. You know nothing about the Grace Covenant. |
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| | (1 recommendation so far) | Message 52 of 57 in Discussion |
| | From: Dovey | Sent: 8/7/2008 2:52 AM |
Grace is freedom from law. It is just that, GRACE. Grace is IMPOSSIBLE UNDER LAW, FOR THE LAW DEMANDS PUNISHMENT TO THOSE WHO DISOBEY.<FreeBorn> Right....since disobedience demands punishment then it is understandable that Grace is not license to toss out God's Ten Commandments. Grace is undeserved PARDON. It is forgiveness from God. Why are we forgiven for BREAKING THE LAW??? Because Jesus took the PUNISHMENT for us. The law demanded DEATH AS PUNISHMENT. Jesus died in our stead. Jesus did NOT come to toss out the law for us to be forgiven. Yet, you accuse US of denying Jesus' sacrifice??? You think that All God had to do was get rid of His Ten Commandments. Confusion! FreeBorn, you dislike churches so much yet you are carrying so much of those anti law teachings from them. I don't understand it. DOVEY |
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Dovey, you don't seem to understand anything. Stop fighting a short while, study the Word, and pray for understanding. It is not so hard to see, if you got willing to Let God show you HIS WAY. You are the one listening to some church's stuff. I did not get anything that I teach from any church. I got what I teach and know straight from the Word of God and His Spirit anointing it to me. I have shown you clearly from Hebrews that God did away with that first covenant and set up a second or new covenant. Why is this world do you resist this truth? You are denying yourself, the glory and joy of receiving the Holy Ghost into your soul. How old are you? If you do not mind telling me. I would like to know for a purpose. I am 69. So that shows you I am not ashamed to tell my age. I am thankful for every year. The doctors told my mother, when I was a child, that I might not live to be ten. But see, they did not know. God has given me almost 7 times that much. Now. I have studied the Scriptures as far back as I can remember. I had such a good knowledge of the Word, before I was ten, that I could sit our entire church down, on a scripture quoting contest, which we had quite often. No boasting. Just wanting to tell you something. I have always loved the Word of God. But in the baptist church where I grew up, I did not get the deep teachings which I yearned to know. I did not see the joy of the Lord in our church. it was dead. At the age of 24, God spoke to me and told me to leave that church and never go back. I obey immediately. So see, I have always obeyed my God. Later at age 25, I received the Baptism of the Holy Ghost in a small Jesus-only church. It was the most glorious thing in this world. You cannot even imagine the glorious joy and love which filled me. Before this baptism, I did not even believe in speaking in tongues, because the baptist preachers said it was of the devil. They mocked it as you seem to want to do. Do not make that mistake. It is blaspheming the Holy Ghost. Well, when I was in the Spirit, totally out of myself, I preached in tongues. Not knowing what I was doing. Part of the time not even realizing it was myself that I heard making all those strange sounds. I even tried to stop it, for I felt foolish and thought the people would think me crazy. Of course I was so far out in the Spirit, my mind was not really functioning. this may sound wild to you...but believe me, it is truly joy unspeakable and full of glory. I had no intentions of telling you this when I started writing. God has moved on me to testify to you about this. I was not brought up to believe or know about this kind of thing. In fact, before this night, it scared me to see it. I longed to know God's great power in my life, but at the same time, it scared me. Not anymore. It is the most desirable thing in all the world. I can just raise my hands, even right now, praise his Name and feel his glorious presence. Many times as I am worshipping, I will go into speaking in tongues. It is worship of Jesus. But even then, with all that glory in our worship services, I still starved and hungered for the depth of the Word. I wanted to know what all those things in Scripture mean. I studied and studied, more and more. ( do you think that God did not honour all this studying? do you think it does not pay off to study the Word? do you think that it availed me nothing? Don't you think that god answers us and feeds us who hunger for his Word. Then why think that I do not know what I am speaking about . If god does not teach those of us who diligently study, why do it/ why tell people to study? surely you know that God showed my much in all those years of studying and seeking his truth!) God would show me things. Then more things. and then more. I wrote and wrote, hand writing the things God revealed to me. He showed me how to put one scripture with another which revealed the true meaning. This was long before I had a computer. So it was a slow go. But I kept studying and studying. and getting deeper and deeper. Soon, no one believed a thing i said. Not even Larry. But then he began listening to my tapes, and studying to try to prove me wrong, and ended up seeing that it is true. Now he gets deep revelation as I do. But the joy of having the Holy Ghost is more wonderful than anyone can explain. The joy of having God speak his mysteries to me is more treasure to me that if I could own the whole world. I am very serious with you now. The truth I teach did not come to me from any man or church. I do not know of a church which teaches the things that I do. Oh sure some of them know we are no longer under law. But they do not see into its depth. Do you have any idea why the law was not given to man, until Moses' time? Abraham did not have ten commandments. Yet he was of faith and the father of the righteous. Don't you even wonder why? This is something I keep trying to get you to think about and see. Abraham had a total different covenant than the law which was given to Moses. That law covenant was for only them at that time. It was not before them, and not after them. This does not mean that we go out and commit murder, or adultery, or steal, etc. I keep trying to get you to see this. But it is NOT because of a law. It is because of righteousness which God put into us. IT is love. If we claim we must go back under law, to live right, we are trampling the blood of Jesus and calling it an unholy thing. I did not make this up . It is in Hebrews. The NT has many commandments of God, which do give salvation and life. Those old ten cannot give life. It is not God's way. It was for the sole purpose of bringing them under CONDEMNATION. It is condemnation. 11Cor 3 and romans. also hebrews. It takes too much writing and time to try to show all of this to you. Just try to get a small portion and study and ask God to show you. It is clearly in the Word. It is not hard to see. You must find the right way of salvation or perish. It is not in that law system. Law and Grace cannot mix. listen........they died WITHOUT MERCY under law. If you are still under that law, this will still apply to you. It is a made up lie that Jesus took the penalty off and left people still under the law. You show me scripture for that! It cannot be done, for it is not written. It is lies of man. they hate the new covenant and its manifestation of the Holy Ghost, so they made up this lie to deceive you with. Ask yourself, why did peter and paul tell us not to be under or keep that law? Do you call them liars? did they not know the truth? where there is no law, there is no transgression. Jesus took us out from under that law, so we can be free, and not sinners. why is this so hard for you to understand? It is not by the works of law. You are not under grace. I know you think you are, but i know you are not. NO slander. trying to get you to see some truth. Why hang to that old law, and reject the New covenant? and its laws? the SPIRIT of LIFE in christ Jesus has made me free from the LAW of sin and death. romans 8. read it. two different laws. two different covenants. Moses did not give us grace. He gave us law. Jesus gave us grace, not law. He nailed that law to his cross and took it out of the way, for it was the enemity. colo. 2. Now that is enough to show this entire world the truth, if they stopped fighting God. Jo |
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Ok, you quote where Paul told us we must still live under that old bondage of law. Prove your words. I have quoted here many, many times, where Paul said right the opposite. So now, you find and QUOTE where Paul, or Jesus, or Peter or any other writer of Scripture, told us that we must go back and still live by or under law. If you can't quote a scripture saying this, then admit that you are lying. either quote it here for us to see, or you are the liar. I have already quoted my scripture. I have quoted here many times where Paul said, WE ARE NOT UNDER THE LAW. sO HOW is it that you agree with Paul and I disagree? You can say all kinds of lies, and you do,....but now PROVE IT. You are the one in full DISOBEDIENCE TO GOD. You refuse to be baptized in the NAME OF JESUS CHRIST FOR THE REMISSION OF YOUR SINS. CLAIMING TO HAVE THEM REMITTED SOME OTHER WAY. so prove it with scripture. prove where I disobey God. stop your lying mouth and give us proof. Your cult tells you that you have the Holy Ghost, but it is not according to the Word of God. I am quite sure you would not claim to have spoken in tongues, as the Spirit gives utterance, when he comes into a person. You cannot make God change the way he does this. You and your cult are the ones in full rebellion to the NT Way of doing things, which the only way God is in. |
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