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Day of Lord : The Two Witnesses
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 Message 1 of 14 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameSobeit33  (Original Message)Sent: 3/10/2004 4:25 AM

~ The Two Witnesses~

Rev. 11: 1-14----These verses tell about these two witnesses.

v3---And I will give POWER unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

v4---These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

v5---And if any man will hurt them, FIRE proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.

v6---These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

Psm.149:5-9----Let the SAINTS be joyful in glory; LET THEM SING ALOUD UPON THEIR BEDS.

v6--Let the high praises of God be in their mouth, and a two edged sword in their hand;

v7---TO EXECUTE VENGEANCE UPON THE HEATHEN, AND PUNISHMENTS UPON THE PEOPLE;

v8---To bind their kings with chains, and their nobles with fetters of iron;

v9---To EXECUTE upon them the JUDGMENT written: this honour have ALL HIS SAINTS. Praise ye the LORD.

Now, look carefully at the comparison of these two passages of Scripture. Remember, Scripture interprets Scripture.

It said the witnesses kill their enemies with the ‘fire�?coming out of their mouth. It said they smite the earth with plagues, as often as they will.

These SAINTS in Psm. 149 execute vengeance and punishments upon people, bind their kings with chains (remember Satan is a whole kingdom; he is bound in ‘chains�?and cast into the bottomless pit) for the 1,000 years reign of the saints. They execute judgment upon them.

So, it should be fairly easy to see that this is the same people being talked about here.

Now, look back at Rev.11:4----this identifies these witnesses as two olive trees. What are ‘olive trees�?

Romans 11:13-26---

v24--For if thou wert cut out of the ‘olive tree�?which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good ‘olive tree�? how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree? So all Israel shall be saved...

So, here we have identified both Gentiles and Jews as being an olive tree. But Jesus brought them both into one good olive tree. So this good olive tree has to be the same olive tree in Rev. 11.

Now, he also said they were two candle sticks. So, what is a candle stick?

Rev.1:20----The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the Angels of the seven churches: and the seven CANDLESTICKS which thou sawest are the seven churches.

So, we see the Scripture meaning of a candlestick: it is a church. Therefore, the olive tree is the new church; likewise the candlestick is the new church. So, two identifications meet the requirement of God to prove every thing in the mouth of two or three witnesses.

But, you ask, how is the church a prophet? They have all the prophecies of God.

Rev.19:10---....for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. So, see, if we have the testimony of Jesus that is the spirit of prophecy. So here, we have a third identification of the church as being the witnesses, for we have the testimony of Jesus which is the spirit of prophecy; therefore making us a prophet. Same thing.

But, it says two witnesses. So what about the seven churches? They are NOT these two witnesses. They are a mixture of God’s and of Satan’s people. The tares and the wheat grow together until the end of the world.

These two powerful churches it is talking being these two witnesses could not be these seven churches that were all messed up.

So where are two other churches identified in the Word.

Joel 2:28-31----And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions::::

(do you see that colon? it means another complete clause is coming up.... another complete thought)

v29---AND ALSO (this means in addition to the preceding) ... also upon the SERVANTS and upon the HANDMAIDS in those days will I pour out my spirit. And I will show wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and FIRE and pillars of smoke. The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.

When John the Baptist prophesied of the Baptism of the Holy Ghost and Fire he named them together, because he was prophesying of a subject, not a time matter. He meant at some time in the future these two things will happen. When Joel prophesied of these two baptisms, he likewise put them together, or so it seemed, for it was something yet to happen in the future. But that colon separates these two separate events.

Acts 1:5---For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the HOLY GHOST not many days hence.

Now why did he not say and FIRE? For they did not receive the Fire Baptism. It is two different outpourings from God; two different spirits; for two different purposes, at two different times in time; for two different groups of people; two different churches. They were divided in time by at least 2,000 years.

Was the church born at Pentecost told to hurt anyone who hurt them? No!! They were told exactly the opposite. They were told not to return railing for railing; to turn the other cheek, etc. Why??? The Spirit of the Holy Ghost that they were empowered with was the spirit of love, grace, salvation etc.

Were they God’s witnesses??? You bet they were. They were the first witness. They witnessed God’s power to heal, raise the dead, save the lost, meet one’s every need, etc.

PROOF:

Acts 2:32---This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof WE ALL ARE WITNESSES. (but, now remember, they all are one).

Acts 3:15---And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof WE ARE WITNESSES.

Acts 5:32---And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him. (see, they and the Holy Ghost are one witness).

Acts 10:41---Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before of God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead.

This group of witnesses witnessed of his resurrection; they were there.

Acts 13:31---And he was seen many days of them which came up with him from Galilee to Jerusalem who are his witnesses unto the people.

So, there you have the first witness; anointed with power from on high with the Baptism of the Holy Ghost, to witness his love power, the resurrection, his healing power, his saving power, etc.

After that witness was gone, then came up the seven churches in Revelation, a mixture. Because the anti-Christ had come in and polluted that church after the apostles were dead. This powerful witness, with the power of God in their lives, had held back that evil power. For he could not come in as long as that powerful, anointed church was here. But, when it was gone, then the beast , whore church with the man of sin as its head came in. They changed the truth, cast the truth to the ground, took the people into darkness. And it has been there ever since.

Just think for a minute: why do the churches today say none of that power is for us today??? Why do they say that??? Because they do not have it. They are not his witnesses. They are in the darkness of the beast, the whore church. Anyone who denies this power of God, could not possibly be one of his witnesses. It is self evidenced.

Zech. 4 gives the vision of these two anointed ones. Read this whole chapter. Compare it with Rev.11. You will see the two witnesses clearly defined, these two anointed ones, these two churches, along with the other seven.

v11---Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these two OLIVE TREES upon the RIGHT side of the CANDLESTICK and upon the LEFT side thereof?

Now, he is placing the two anointed churches in time; one on the left side of the seven; the other on the right side of the seven. So, what does this tell us? That one came in before the seven and one AFTER the seven.

We have already shown the first one; the church of Peter and the others of his day. That one came before the seven, therefore it was the one on the left side of the candlestick with the seven lamps upon it.

So, that leaves the one which is to come after the seven; the one on the right side of the seven.

See, that he called them olive trees. The New Testament Church.

Zech:4:14---Then said he, These are the TWO ANOINTED ONES, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.

Rev.11:4--These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks STANDING BEFORE THE GOD OF THE EARTH.

Need it be any plainer?????????

But, you see, a power of God was not witnessed by that first witness. For indeed, they could not bring it. It was not time. So there has to be a witness of God’s Wrath; of his judgment; of his rule with a rod of iron.

People wonder why it seems to revert back to law in the millinium ? This is because it will be law. Only not the OT. law. It will be forced worship by the witnesses. Read Zech 14. And there are many others showing this.

Remember the Scripture at the beginning of this message in Psm. 149? That is talking about this second witness. Go back and read that chapter.

Go back to Joel 2:29-31---- Notice that the first pouring out of the spirit was to ALL FLESH. Any and every one could receive that Baptism. It was the one that came at Pentecost. It was for salvation.

But, look at v29---This outpouring is only for the SERVANTS and the HANDMAIDS. In other words those ALREADY serving God with the Baptism of the Holy Ghost.

Check what the signs of the first one was: dreams, visions and prophesy.

Look what the signs of this second one is: wonders in the heavens (see Rev.12) and in the earth: blood, and FIRE, and pillars of smoke. Sun and Moon darkened.

Remember the FIRE coming out of the mouth of these witnesses? This is where it came from: the Baptism of FIRE. See, that did not come on the day of Pentecost. It is not the tongues of fire which was upon them. This is the spirit of FIRE = wrath, judgment, vengeance etc.

Rev. is dealing with this second witness: Acts with the first one.

They are two groups of people (churches) anointed with power from on high to do their work for God. They are said to be one. Peter’s church was one--- this second one is the other one.

So looking at Joel 2:30-31---we see that their job is to bring blood, fire, pillars of smoke, turn the sun and moon into darkness. So we must find what group does this.

Remember, they must be anointed with power from on high. This takes place in Rev. 7:

V3--Hurt not the earth neither the sea, nor the trees, TILL we have sealed the SERVANTS of our God in their foreheads.

Remember, that the Holy Ghost was a seal. So, also is this baptism. Notice, it said seal the SERVANTS OF GOD. Isn’t that who Joel said would receive this baptism? See how it fits every Scripture and proves itself, without guess work???

Notice, also that this is immediately before hurting everything. In other words, wrath, judgment, vengeance.

Why a seal in the forehead? For that is where the beast worshipers have their mark. It is in the mind. You are either sealed by God, or you are marked by the beast. It is always there. You are either for him or against him. You are either gathering or scattering. You are a member of Christ�?kingdom or else the beast kingdom. One or the other. Everyone.

Notice also, that those sealed are Jews. We, the true spiritual Jews are the ones who receive this seal.

The fifth and sixth trumpets are the work of this witness. Rev.9:2---You have here the smoke, the sun and air darkened by this smoke ( one of the signs of the baptism of fire).They torment the men who have the mark of the beast. See Rev.11:10--they had tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

Rev. 9:7--Identifies this group as horses prepared unto battle---compare this to Joel 2--you will see the army of God as horses going to battle. The crowns like gold show the mind of Christ they were sealed with. They had faces as men and hair as women, proving that both the servants and handmaids of God are in this ministry of judgment. Of pouring out the wrath of the Lamb. Of casting Satan into the bottomless pit. Of taking over the kingdoms of this world and ruling them with the rod of iron. That is the powerful second witness. No one will have any power over them: until they finish their testimony. At the end of the 1,000 year reign, they will be over come and killed.

Then the final resurrection and the changing of the living saints will occur. Rev.9:17---And thus I saw the HORSES in the vision, and them that sat on them, (Son of Man) having breastplates of FIRE, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions: (one of the faces on the living creature) and out of their MOUTH issued FIRE AND SMOKE AND BRIMSTONE.

FIRE coming out the mouths of the witnesses. By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued OUT OF THEIR MOUTHS.

There is the signs of the second baptism: fire, smoke and blood as they kill their enemies.

So, there is the Word of God telling who his two witnesses are.

Glory to our great God for he did not leave us to the minds of carnal men to tell us these things. Thank you Lord Jesus for this great revelation.

By: Jo Smith



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Reply
 Message 2 of 14 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameSobeit33Sent: 3/10/2004 4:28 AM
Even though we have studied these two witnesses several times, I am posting it again here to be used along with this study of the Day of the Lord.
 
you will need to fully understand the truth of these witnesses in order to get the full understanding of this subject of the Day of the Lord.  The reason?  It will be this second witness of God who will bring the judgment and pour out the wrath of the Lamb which is the Day of the Lord.
 

Reply
 Message 3 of 14 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameSobeit33Sent: 3/10/2004 5:22 AM
This series of studies on the Day of the Lord will answer the question of the trumpets in Revelation.
 
It is the Work of pouring out the Wrath of the Lamb on this earth.  It will destroy the works of man out of this earth to establish forever the kingdom of God on earth.
 
It has not one thing to do with wars or campains of men on this earth now or in the past.

Reply
 Message 4 of 14 in Discussion 
From: IsaiahSent: 3/10/2004 6:00 AM

In order to understand the two witnesses, you must see that God refers to all of us as one. This word, ‘one�?is not referring to a digit; as counting 1,2,3,etc. Obviously, God is not saying 10,000,000 people are all just 1 person.

Here is Webster’s dictionary meaning of ‘one�? being the same in kind or quality. constituting a unified entity of two or more components--- being in agreement or union.

Now, it should be easy to see that the meaning used in the Scripture is the one above. Jesus prayed in the 17th cp. of John , for us ALL to be one as He and his Father are one. So, this could not mean to become one and the same person. So it is obvious that He and His Father are not one and the same being. All the whole church is said to be ‘one�? Meaning we are in agreement, unity, on equal grounds.

Gal.3:28---......for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.


Reply
 Message 5 of 14 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameSearERICSent: 3/11/2004 2:02 AM
The 2 witnesses; are Yahweh Elohim, and they testify of Yahshua The Messiah, In the day ! Which is every day!
 
Peace !


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Reply
 Message 6 of 14 in Discussion 
From: joieSent: 5/2/2004 3:14 AM

Reply
 Message 7 of 14 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nickname®Larry_W_B_1©Sent: 9/23/2004 6:11 AM
 

Reply
 Message 8 of 14 in Discussion 
From: tom doleySent: 11/28/2004 12:30 AM
Sobeit
The Two witnesses
Rev 11: 3-If any man will hurt them verse 5 fire proceeds out of their mouth
What is fire  Jer 23: 29 Is not my word like as a fire, saith the Lord. and like a hammer  that breaketh the rock into pieces.
 
6th verse these have power  to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their propecy
 
1 Kings 17: 1and Elijah the Tishbite was of the inhabitants of Gilead said unto Ahab, as the Lord God of Israel liveth, beforme whom I stand there shall not be dew nor rain theses years, but according to my word. James 5: 17Elias(called Elijah in the old bible, Elias in the new)  Elias was a mansubject to like passions as we are, and he prayed earnestly that it might nor rain and it rained not on the earth by the space of three years and six months
Nowe Jesus told the apostles that John the Baptist was Elias,and John the Baptist was one of the witness,
Rev 11: 11 and after three days and an half the Spirit of life  from God enteredinto them and they stood upon their feet and great fear fell upon them which saw it.  well that was the resurrection of Jesus and the 144,000
12th verse and they heard a great voice(the 144,000) from heaven saying  unto themcome up hither and they ascended up to heaven in a cloud and their enemies beheld
Well you can find where they did that in Acts 1: 9  and when he had spoken these things while they beheld, he was taken up  and a cloud received him out of their sight
Well I guess you are wondering what the cloud s well Heb 12: 1 will tell you/
John was one of the witnesses and Jesus was the other witnesses

Reply
 Message 9 of 14 in Discussion 
From: tom doleySent: 11/28/2004 12:33 AM
Sobeit  why do you people think that all of this bible is in the future?
Do you know that the bible says that they would find the babe Jesus in a manger. do you believe he is still in that manger. it is still in the bible., but if you read alittle farther on you'll fing where he grew up was crucified and buried and rose again and ascended back to his Father.

Reply
 Message 10 of 14 in Discussion 
From: joie2Sent: 11/28/2004 11:26 PM
Tom, you are absolutely right that the Word is not all future.  In fact all of the Word can be taught from the beginning way back in the Garden of Eden.
 
All Scriptrue has more than one application.  It is alive and  is true for any age you take it too.  Sure I know much of it has already happened.  It is the height of stupidity how the church thinks all those things in Revelation happen down here at the end in a short space of time.  Many think all these things take place in only seven years of our time.
 
That is nothing short of loonie-loonie. [if you know what I mean.]
 
Now I do not doubt that Jesus and John were two witnesses as you say.  But there is a broader application.  It takes in that first Apostolic church.  They said we are God's witnesses.  Jesus told them You are my witnesses.
 
And there will come another anointed church anointed with power from on high down here in our time.  This one will be to witness the wrath of the Lamb as they fulfill Psm 149 and pour out the wrath of the Lamb on this false church world.
 
See all of that has to yet be fulfilled.   JEsus has not brought his wrath yet. We are still living under his mercy.
Jo

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 Message 11 of 14 in Discussion 
From: tom doleySent: 11/29/2004 7:45 PM
Joie the key to the whole bible is the first resurrection, and if you can't understand (if you can't see) the first resurrection then you can't understand any of the bible

Reply
 Message 12 of 14 in Discussion 
From: tom doleySent: 11/29/2004 7:48 PM
Joie what you said in message 10 can't be found in the bible
there are only two churches the one in the wilderness and the latter reign church and the latter reign church is already here.

Reply
 Message 13 of 14 in Discussion 
From: joie2Sent: 11/29/2004 11:57 PM
Tom, if there is a latter reign church alive today, please show me where and what it is.  What are they doing to manifest their power from on high?
 
Do you not know that the second anointed church is to bring the wrath of the Lamb on this earth?  How do you think the wicked will be taken and cast into outter darkness?  Who does this?
Are you familiar with Psalms 149?  If not read that.
 
Where is a church today already bringing the wrath of the Lamb?  Are they practicing the power of the first Anointed church, the Apostolic Church of Peter's day?  Do they teach what Peter taught?  Where are they?
 
Do they celebrate Christmas?  If so they are into devil worship.  Do they have the revelation of the word?  Do they know the Scriptual revelation of the day of Jesus' birth?  If so, tell me what they say it is.
 
Do you or they celebrate Easter?  Halloween?  New Years' watch?  If so  you are into idol worship and demonalogy.
 
Is this a true church?
Go read Zech. 4 and you will see what I spoke of in message 10
 
What do you think those two anointed candlesticks on either side of the seven golden candlesticks were?  What are the seven candlesticks?  What are the other two?  What are those two olive trees?
 
If you know then explain it to me.  If you do not know, go ask your latter reign preacher.  If he does not know, he is a fake.
If he does not know these answers, he is not a latter reign minister.
 
Jo

Reply
 Message 14 of 14 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 3/1/2008 1:10 AM

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