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| | From:  Freeborn551 (Original Message) | Sent: 8/4/2008 4:41 AM |
| I just realized something as I read my last post. I know none of you, who think the OT was God's way, will be able to see this. But I am still responsible to God, and to you, to show you the truth as God reveals it to me. The OT was not God's way. It was witchcraft. Oh I know you will all dispute this. But I can prove it. and not by twisting God's word as dake, branham, scofield and most others, have done. It is witchcraft to think that shedding animal's blood could take away sins. It is witchcraft to think that burning insence is worship to God! God said he hated it! It is witchcraft to think that waving heave offerings to God is an acceptable way of worship. God said he hates it. Isa one. Jesus taught that only acceptable way of worship is in spirit and in truth. Just read Isa. one and you will see this for yourself. God HATED everything to do with that OT way of doing service. It was all an abomination to him. IT IS DOING DESPITE TO THE SPIRIT OF GRACE....AND TRAMPLING THE BLOOD OF JESUS CHRIST....THE ONLY CLEANSING FROM SIN THAT THERE HAS EVER BEEN. Surely, you all know that God himself, did not uphold or command such evil???? See, God had given the world to Adam, his son. Adam is the god of the OT. All those things were from Adam, or Satan. Animal sacrifices were from Adam, not God. Since God had given it into Adam's hands, anointed Adam as the ruler of this world, God had to let it stand. Only those who are BAPTIZED by one SPIRIT INTO CHRIST, are ever free from Adam, or Satans, dominion. Sin rules over all who stay in Adam. So when OT women VEILED their faces, it was showing that the OT way of life was HARLOTRY AGAINST GOD. Sure. Jesus surely pronounced that old Jerusalem is the whore, the one guilty of all the righteous blood shed on earth. Old Jerusalem is synonomous with LAW, OR SATAN. So when the OT women veiled their faces, it showed that they were under this false religion and the whordoms of the OT. So dakes statement that for Christian women to pray unveiled shows Christianity in harlotry, is the very OPPOSITE of the truth. True NT women, those in Grace, know that the long, hanging down hair is the true and only COVERING which God gave. Cloth veils were given by SATAN, or Adam, to SHAME WOMEN. That is exactly why men still, today, have the ungodly and hateful attitude toward women that they have! See how evil men like Dake tried to take women back under that shameful place! Women, wake up! Take your RIGHTFUL PLACE IN CHRIST. Let that hair grow long, leave it down.....teach the word of God.....study the Word of God and learn the TRUTH, WHICH SHALL SET YOU FREE! | |
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Tweety, I copied this from your message on 'The old covenant was done away with'. It is on the Dakes board. He said this: Note the following contrasts between the old and new covenants is 2 Cor. 3: the first is "old" and the second is "new"; the first brought "death" and the second brings "life"; the first was "glorious" and the second is "much more glorious"; the first brought "condemnation" and the second brings "righteousness" which frees from condemnation (Rom. 8:1-4); the first was of "the letter" and the second is of "the Spirit"; the first had "no glory" in comparison to the second "by reason of the glory that excelleth"; the first was "done away" and "abolished" and the second "remaineth"; the first came by "Moses" and was "done away in Christ"; the first required a vail to hide the glory because it was "the ministration of death" but the exceeding glory of the second can be looked upon with "open face" because it is "the spirit that giveth life"; and the first brought blindness and bondage while the second brings enlightenment and liberty and changes character by the Spirit of the Lord. (emphasis is mine, Jo. Open face is women without a vail. I claim the victory. I can be open face same as any man.) ****** You said, at the opening of this messate: | Found this very interesting. I ask the question DOES GOD CHANGE? We have changed. We have thrown away what God has said about a women to be veiled. ******** We have changed. Yes. Why did we change? Because we are no longer under that old covenant of DEATH. We threw away that old bondage and accepted the freedom Christ Jesus gave to us! I for one, refuse to let these wicked men take me back under that bondage, so they can RULE, or be worshipped. See that Dake said in the other study that the first covenant of death required a vail to hide the glory. So then why would he and you try to make women go back to that dead, old covenant and have to hide our glory under a false vail = that of cloth? I know you did not understand any of this. But please take some time and study what I am telling you. Do not allow this false teacher to lead you any longer. Why do you suppose this wicked man set out to take women back to that bondage and shame? I tell you it is because of the hatred Adam has placed into almost every person toward women in Christ. Even the women, as you did, are under this witchcraft spell. | | |
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2. It was a Jewish law that no woman be seen in public unveiled. John 19:7 The Jews answered him, We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God. So why teach by 'their' law? ***************** 3. Among Greeks, Romans, and other nations it was also a custom. Since when did Christians go by Greeks, Romans and other nations for our mode of life? What kind of 'teacher' says such things? So he thought we no longer go by Scripture? Shew! 5. If a woman appeared in public without a veil, she would disgrace her head-the husband (1 Cor. 11:3). It would be the same as women who had hair shorn off as punishment for whoredom and adultery (1 Cor. 11:5-6; Numbers 5:18). Not one word of this one is Scripture either. Sheer foolishness and slander of women as God set us in his word. Since when did Women in Christ go by such foolishness? That veil was listed in Isa 3 as one of the evils for which God put them down! That 'veil' is to the true COVERING what animal blood is to the blood of Jesus Christ! A mockery of true Godliness! 1co 11:14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him? Not one word in this entire chapter uses the word vail. So where did he get it that a man was not to wear a vail? It is not in this scripture. It said for him not to wear long hair...proving that this entire chapter is about HAIR...not vails. The man is a liar and handles the Word of God DECEITFULLY. Paul told us about this evil kind. I would not trust my dog's life in the hands of this reckless 'teacher'.[sneer intended!] He said: 6. The man was not to wear a veil because he was the image and glory of God. The woman needed one because she was the glory of the man being created for him (1 Cor. 11:7-9). Not one word about any vail in that referrence!! He said: 7. The woman needed to wear her veil on her head as a sign of the husband's authority over her, thus setting an example of humility and submission to her head-the husband. She would thus be a lesson to angels to submit to God (1 Cor. 11:10; 1 Cor. 4:9; Ephes. 3:10-11; Eccles. 5:6; 1 Tim. 5:21). 8. The woman needed to cooperate fully with the husband and keep the customs as being equally blessed by God (1 Cor. 11:11-12; 1 Tim. 2:9; 1 Peter 3:1-7). How could the woman be equally blessed by God and still have to be wearing a vail, to show she is being dominated and ruled over by her husband? It is false as can be. No Scripture ever said a woman wears a vail to teach angels to submit to God. Where did he make up such a lie from? Jesus told them to set everyone FREE. the wife is no longer to be shamed and ruled over by her husband. In Christ they are EQUALS. else they are not in Christ. How is this world have so many people become so wrapped up in a man who taught such obvious lies and foolishness? It makes not one bit of sense to me. and he said this foolishness statements: 9. It was becoming to a woman in that day to be veiled and not common for a Christian woman to pray or prophesy unveiled. That would make her like the heathen priestesses who prayed and delivered the oracles bareheaded or with disheveled hair. 10. It was natural for women to have long hair thus indicating they should be veiled. The above is a lie of the worst sort. Nothing of this kind is mentioned in all of God's word. Christians women were NEVER TOLD TO WEAR ANY VAIL! THEY WERE TOLD TO WEAR LONG HAIR AS A COVERING, AND NOT AS A KNOT UP ON TOP OF HER HEAD. If she had long hair, how is this world did that indicate that she should be veiled? God said the long hair was her covering! I just believe the Scripture, not this lying man, dake. He is not fit to speak of God's word. Tweety, if you can't see through this, I just plain do not know what to think of you. Jo | |
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~~ Set Them Free Lord~~ Set Them Free ~~ ~ | |
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At first, I did not want to do the work and take the time to investigate the 'referrences' in this post and see what it really had to say. I just did not feel up to it the first time I read this article, because it makes me angry to see someone use the Word of God as deceitfully as Dake did. but now I feel very enthused to do so. I felt led of God to come back and look at some more of this. I am very thankful that I did. Tweety, if you do not ignore this, as you did some of the other times I took the time to prove that Dake had lied and added to God's word, in every thing he said, you will see, as I do, the real SCUM of this EVIL man. I did not have enough before to identify him this way. But now I do. And I would be WRONG not to expose this evil worker. He used the word of God DECEITFULLY to build up a name for himself. He had no truth! Now I prove what I say. and I think you know this by now. I looked at this referrence, which he gave for reason #1. First let me say this. Old Testament women are certainly NOT the role model for Christians. They were, as you know, under the penalty for sin. They had not been cleansed by the blood of Jesus....for that matter neither had the men. But the LAW, thy husband shalt RULE over you, is the PUNISHMENT for this UNCLEANSED SIN. It is not the rule for New Testament women. In GRACE, we are EQUALS. We are all ONE, IN CHRIST. So for you to go back to what OT women did for proof of such things, and to jewish customs, you will miss God entirely. Please, everyone who comes into this site, take the time to read this post. I do the work to find and write these things. Surely you all can take a few minutes to READ it?? Do you really want TRUTH? any of you? This is the reason Dake and others did not QUOTE the verses they listed. They KNEW that would prove them LIARS. They also knew that very few people would actually take the time, as I am doing, to read the verses and see if they said what he said they said. They DO NOT. Under reason 1, he gave this reference: Gen 38:14. Under reason 4, he said this: 4. Only public prostitutes in the East went without veils, hence to pray or prophesy without a veil would be identifying Christianity with harlotry. Read carefully what Gen 38:14 says: Ge 38:13 And it was told Tamar, saying, Behold thy father in law goeth up to Timnath to shear his sheep. Ge 38:14 And she put her widow's garments off from her, and covered her with a veil, and wrapped herself, and sat in an open place, which is by the way to Timnath; for she saw that Shelah was grown, and she was not given unto him to wife. Ge 38:15 When Judah saw her, he thought her to be an harlot; because she had covered her face. See, RIGHT THE OPPOSITE of what Dake said! Judah thought Tamar to be a harlot BECAUSE SHE COVERED HER FACE. So this shows it was customary for HARLOTS to veil their faces. **** May God expose the works of this wicked man!!! | |
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| For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels. |
He gave the above for this: 7. The woman needed to wear her veil on her head as a sign of the husband's authority over her, thus setting an example of humility and submission to her head-the husband. She would thus be a lesson to angels to submit to God (1 Cor. 11:10; 1 Cor. 4:9; Ephes. 3:10-11; Eccles. 5:6; 1 Tim. 5:21). Now kindly show me one word of this in verse 10? He did not read this in God's word, He added his own false interpretation here. He also gave this one: | For I think that God hath set forth us the apostles last, as it were appointed to death: for we are made a spectacle unto the world, and to angels, and to men. |
Where is what he said even mentioned in this verse? It is not there, tweety. So read. and see that none of this man's referrences say what he says they say. He gives some place, but then says something totally different from what is written in that verse. You could teach that foxes are Jesus by using such a sinful method. He also gave this one....again not one word of what he said is in this verse. Tweety, you truly need to stop reading this man's JUNK, and take some time to read all of his 'referrences' and see that he never gives one true interpretation. Here is Eph. 3: | To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, | | According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord: |
See, not one word there about the woman needing to submit to her huband with wearing a veil, to teach angels to obey God! Such made up JUNK. He also gave this verse, for reason #7. Again not one word about what he said. This truly makes me very angry. This man has so twisted God's word, that he needs to be ....well God will. | I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou observe these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality. |
See what he did? He merely used some concordance and found some referrences to ANGELS and did not even read them himself. He could not have, unless he just deliberately wanted to lie about God's word. He did not care....he was out to make a big name for himself, to be worshipped, just exactly as branham, and scofield did. They are the same kind of SCUM. And here is the other verse he gave for reason # 7. I took the time to look these up. It proves that not one of his 'referrences' match what he said. It proves he was going down a list of words, angel, in some concordance and took a few of them, to try to make his lie look authentic. Now if you see what he said in #7, in this verse, I will bow and kiss his dead feet. | Suffer not thy mouth to cause thy flesh to sin; neither say thou before the angel, that it was an error: wherefore should God be angry at thy voice, and destroy the work of thine hands? | | |
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| Tweety, do you ever really read the so-called 'referrences' that man gives? Why not read this one: | Therefore the Lord will smite with a scab the crown of the head of the daughters of Zion, and the LORD will discover their secret parts. | | In that day the Lord will take away the bravery of their tinkling ornaments about their feet, and their cauls, and their round tires like the moon, | | The chains, and the bracelets, and the mufflers, | | The bonnets, and the ornaments of the legs, and the headbands, and the tablets, and the earrings, | | The rings, and nose jewels, | | The changeable suits of apparel, and the mantles, and the wimples, and the crisping pins, | | The glasses, and the fine linen, and the hoods, and the veils. |
He gave Isa. 3:23. Did you read it? It was one of the things God said he would TAKE AWAY FROM THEM. It is in the same class as these: | In that day the Lord will take away the bravery of their tinkling ornaments about their feet, and their cauls, and their round tires like the moon,(balled up hair) | | The chains, and the bracelets, and the mufflers, | | The bonnets, and the ornaments of the legs, and the headbands, and the tablets, and the earrings, | | The rings, and nose jewels, | | The changeable suits of apparel, and the mantles, and the wimples, and the crisping pins, |
So, now if we must take it that the word , veil, being in this list, means women must still be under this 'uh, customary' veil, it has to be also, thta the nose jewels, the ornaments of the legs, earrings, and all the other things listed in this, must alse be our 'cusomary' 'godly? apparel, which we sinned in, by leaving them off? My, my. And you think that man had some truth?
Go read the actual Scriptures and see how badly this man twisted God's word into false teachings. If you all cannot see from the above verses, that the veils were in the same group as the nose jewels, etc. I say you need to learn to read. So I guess, according to Dake, I need to go get some nose jewels? and according to all those who lay cloths on women's heads, they better also get some nose jewels, some round tires, some tinking ornanments on our feet. etc. etc. etc. bla bla bla. So now. who is teaching it as the Word of God says it? I am getting very angry at how men have twisted God's word, and how everyone just loves them for it!!!!! | |
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| Found this very interesting. I ask the question DOES GOD CHANGE? We have changed. We have thrown away what God has said about a women to be veiled. Women were to remain under their customary veils when praying or prophesying. Women Were to be Veiled, Ten Reasons 1 Cor. 11:5(dAKE) Does God change? From what? show me one place where God said for a woman to be veiled. I want to read that. see.....added words to change God's word. Go to the above verse, and show me the word, veil, in it. Guess what? IT IS NOT THERE. 'customary veils'? huh? show me that is the above Scripture. Tweety, this is how that man changes God's word and adds his own false teachings. A person can give all kinds of referrence, such as: 1cor 11:4. then never quote that verse.......as is dakes style.....and then add his own words,......as in the above.......and teach something totally DIFFERENT from what the Word actually did say. He did just that. see how others have fallen into that same deception, thinking God wants women to cover up their hair. No such is in God's word. The long hair is the COVERING. why no accept the truth? | | |
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1co 11:4 Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head. 1co 11:5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven. 1co 11:6 For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered. 1co 11:7 For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man. 1co 11:8 For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man. 1co 11:9 Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man. 1co 11:10 For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels. 1co 11:11 Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord. 1co 11:12 For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things of God. 1co 11:13 Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered? 1co 11:14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him? 1co 11:15 But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering. 1co 11:16 But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God. Maybe you all read something I do not have? Where is the word, 'vail' or veil in all of that above Scripture? I simply do not see it there......no, not one single word of that. It is all about long hair. Now if any of you can show me something different in this Scripture, WITHOUT adding stuff to this, please do so. Why do people continually add to God's word and completely CHANGE it? Do you all know that it is a command from God, with the death penalty attached to it, to change God's word? Yet almost every single teaching of man has added and taken away from God's word, thus making up lies. How is covering up her hair being obedient to this Scripture? Not one word is here about covering up her hair with a cloth or hat. I see one sect of false religion, which has so deceived the women that they go around looking like cast-aways, with a silly little dinkie hat on top of their head and they look like they think they are the holiest things going. It is sheer ignorance and deception. Other women, will not cut their hair, yet ball it all up on top of their heads, thus appearing bald. God said it is the same as shaving their heads. All because they do not read the Scripture as it is given, but change it to suit men's false ideas. (see they really all hate the LONG BEAUTIFUL HAIR. JUST ANYTHING TO BE REBELLIOUS TO GOD) So now, guess we all better jump into our long, flowing robes and wear our heads and faces covered up. Well, not I said Joie. I will wear the long hair covering as God said to do. that is the beauty, the glory and the power. wonder why folks hate this so much? that they had to make up a lie about some silly cloth covering? | |
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| Yes, a GLORIOUS covering. " That no flesh should glory in his presence." 1 Co.1:29 Should a woman not have her glory covered when praying or prophecying? My wife has her hair covered while we have meeting, in obedience to this Scripture. Is she wrong in doing so? I don't believe she is. epe | Reply
| | | Sorry, Epe. That is NOT what the Scripture said. Why do men insist on changing the Word of God? God said if a woman have LONG HAIR, that is a glory to her. She should not cover up this glory. If she cuts if off or pins it up on head in any manner to make it look short, then God said, if she be not COVERED, let it be SHORN (past tense of cut; which means she can have long hair and still not be covered!), for that is all-one (or same thing) as if she were shaved. Again, I ask, why do you have so much trouble understanding such simple words? is it just because you do not like the choice of God? Do you not like the thing of women having long hair and it hanging down, as her covering? God has never in any place, said that a woman needs to add some kind of cloth vail to cover up her head or hair. A cloth vail is in no way a covering or something which would make the angels take note of the woman's power on her head. How can you possibly think of a lifeless cloth as power on her head? That is man's things, not God's. God likes the long, hair, hanging down, not pinned up in curles or braids. The Word of God is expressily clear in this matter. | | | |
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| (I am placing a thread here, which is running on the Dake's discussion Board. I would put it a new message on the Women's board, except that it is now running on the front page, on the Dake board. The reason I am placing this here, on the women's board, is for anyone who might come to this board to study the truth about women. Since this is so important to the truth about Women in Christ, I am placing this study here also. I want everyone to see the evils which men 'teachers' (rightly called FALSE TEACHERS) have brought up against women. Here is the starting of that study: | Found this very interesting. I ask the question DOES GOD CHANGE? We have changed. We have thrown away what God has said about a women to be veiled. Women Were to be Veiled, Ten Reasons 1 Cor. 11:5 Women were to remain under their customary veils when praying or prophesying. Ten Reasons Women Were to be Veiled: 1. It had been a custom for ages for woman to be veiled (Genesis 24:65; Genesis 38:14,19; Ruth 3:15; Isaiah 3:23; Song 5:7). 2. It was a Jewish law that no woman be seen in public unveiled. 3. Among Greeks, Romans, and other nations it was also a custom. 4. Only public prostitutes in the East went without veils, hence to pray or prophesy without a veil would be identifying Christianity with harlotry. 5. If a woman appeared in public without a veil, she would disgrace her head-the husband (1 Cor. 11:3). It would be the same as women who had hair shorn off as punishment for whoredom and adultery (1 Cor. 11:5-6; Numbers 5:18). 6. The man was not to wear a veil because he was the image and glory of God. The woman needed one because she was the glory of the man being created for him (1 Cor. 11:7-9). 7. The woman needed to wear her veil on her head as a sign of the husband's authority over her, thus setting an example of humility and submission to her head-the husband. She would thus be a lesson to angels to submit to God (1 Cor. 11:10; 1 Cor. 4:9; Ephes. 3:10-11; Eccles. 5:6; 1 Tim. 5:21). 8. The woman needed to cooperate fully with the husband and keep the customs as being equally blessed by God (1 Cor. 11:11-12; 1 Tim. 2:9; 1 Peter 3:1-7). 9. It was becoming to a woman in that day to be veiled and not common for a Christian woman to pray or prophesy unveiled. That would make her like the heathen priestesses who prayed and delivered the oracles bareheaded or with disheveled hair. 10. It was natural for women to have long hair thus indicating they should be veiled. This is proof that women did pray and preach in the church (1 Cor. 11:5; 1 Cor. 14:3,23-25,31; Acts 2:16-21; Acts 21:9; Joel 2:28-32). Greek: akatakaluptos (NT:177), unveiled (1 Cor. 11:5,13). —Dake's Topics | | Reply
| | | So, then. Tweety, since you believe in Dake, are you going to start wearing the veil? Do you now wear a veil? I wonder if Dake just refused to read all of 1Cor 11, or if he had trouble understanding English? This is a good example of why I told you that you are studying the wrong thing. If my teacher, (book) crossed God's word this badly, I would have me a little fire outback. How about this: | But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering. | | Reply
| | | Do you wish for me to go through the above message, or rather mishandling of God's word, and show you clearly the MANY 'added' words to God's word? Do you ever check out the Scripture references and see how badly this man has mishandled God's Word. It I had one of those things in my house, I would set fire to it before this night is over. | | p.s. these messages were not copied in the original order they were given in, so may not be very sensible. I did not intend to post them all to start with, but then changed my mind. | | |
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Wow, what a powerful study this thread is. I have just finished reading it all again. It is so very good. Noticed that Tweety never did come back and say anything to all that I pointed out to her, which her dake had lied about in his, 'notes', or as he called it, his referrences, of which not one of them said a thing which he alleges that they say. Why ignore this? Why? I hate it when I go to all this trouble, to try to help others find truth, I work, and work, only to have it ignored. why? is it that you just do not want to see the truth? or is it that you just do not want to see your high-and-lofty teacher come crumbling down? Either way, you need to come back and study this, and at least let me know that you paid some attention to it. Why not let God's word speak for itself, and accept HIS truth? It is the only way you or anyone will move one step further with God. If you reject anything which God says, at that point you will stop and never move forward another step. Eventually , you will fall all the way backwards, because you refuse the Truth of God's word. If what I said here, in this thread is NOT TRUTH, then prove it to me. Epe also never came back and acknowledged a thing which I showed him, from the word of God. The only thing I can see is man's false religion means more to people than knowing and obeying God's TRUTH. Love, Jo |
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