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God and Jesus : The Rock
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 Message 1 of 5 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551  (Original Message)Sent: 6/28/2007 3:34 AM
From: <NOBR>MSN NicknameIsaiah·</NOBR> Sent: 12/12/2003 10:51 PM

And upon this rock ( foundation) I will build my church. Upon that revelation, you will never see the truth of God’s word without knowing the true revelation, that Jesus is the Son of God and Not God himself. That is the foundation that the church was founded upon, that solid rock.

Hebrews 1
1
God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past (old testament) unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days (NT.) spoken unto us by his Son, ( in other words no more prophet speaking God’s word. John the Baptist was the last of that type of prophet) �?whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;�?( That was the creation in chapter 2 that was made by the Son of God.)

3 Who being the brightness of his glory,( this is when he made the worlds back yonder when he was in the heavenly creation with God, he was In the image and glory of God. He left that image and glory of God and came to this earth in the image of sinful man.

So if he left image of God and came to earth as the image of sinful man then sinful man is definitely is not in the image and glory of God. People are always saying that we are in image and glory of God now. We are not in the image and glory of God, we are in a mortal corruptible body, and God is not in a mortal corruptible body. The Son of God was not in a mortal corruptible body before he came to this earth through the birth of Mary, he was in the image and glory of God. He went back to that Image after the resurrection.)

3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins,

( that was when he died on the cross and went into hell, paid the price for second death) sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

4. Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. ( That is just what we have read, that God gave him a name above every name. That at the name of Jesus every knee shall bow.)

5. For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

6. And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, ( that is talking about when he was resurrected. That is when he begot him from the dead.) he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. ( see they were not told to worship Jesus and his earthly state. They were told to worship him after the resurrection.

When he had fulfilled his entire life in complete obedience to God. If he had failed as Satan did, and Adam failed he would not have been resurrected as our savior, and everything would have been lost.

He could have, he could have failed but he did not fail because he trusted in God and he looked to God to keep him from failing. You can find that in the book of Psalms.)

7. And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.

8. But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. ( There he called his Son God.) In Hebrews chapter 2 it said-

4. God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?

5. For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak.

6. But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visitest him?

7. Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands: ( Now a lots of people say this Is talking about mankind but it is not, it is talking about Jesus.)

8. Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. ( Now if you will read 1st Corinthians chapter 15 you’ll see that God the Father put everything in subjection under Jesus�?feet.) For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.

9. But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man. ( Now see he said right there that he was made a little lower than the angels.)

vs.-16. For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

17. Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

18. For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, ( see Jesus Christ was tempted, God cannot be tempted.) he is able to succour them that are tempted.

Now can you see that Jesus Christ was made just like us in every point. And it said for in another place that he was made perfect by his suffering.

I hope you see that Jesus Christ was put here to suffer just like us. He would make perfect, he was perfected in the things that he suffered.

 The living God never had to go through such things, the living God never left Heaven to go through such things his son Jesus did. All through the scriptures he is called the son of God and he constantly talked about his father.

He came to this earth a little lower than the angels, he didn’t even come as an Angel. He took upon him a state below the Angels. Peter said that the Angels are greater in power and might than we are. We’re not liked the angels, and Jesus did not come hear like an angel, he came here as a man.

In all points as his brethren, he did not come here and walk around on this earth as God. He came here as a mortal being just like you and me.

 He was begotten by the Holy Ghost in the womb of Mary but he came here as a full flesh and blood man. He had to pray constantly for God to take him through what he was tempted with and he suffered as no other man has suffered because he knew that the salvation of the entire creation rested upon his shoulder.

If he had failed as Satan failed, if he had failed as Adam failed, the entire creation of God would have been lost. But he never failed, he never did sin, he obeyed God in every thing.

When he came out of that grave in his glorified state then God lifted him up to the level as God himself. Then God gave him all power in Heaven and Earth as God himself had. He said the Angels of God and all of us to worship him. Jesus is our God, but he is not God the Father. He is God’s holy Son.

Hebrews 4

14. Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.

15. For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

16. Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

 



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 Message 2 of 5 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 6/28/2007 3:34 AM
From: <NOBR>MSN NicknameIsaiah·</NOBR> Sent: 12/12/2003 11:08 PM


 

John 17

 1.  These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:


 2.  As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.


 3.  And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Now just take your time and read the above Scripture. 

v1--Jesus is speaking, praying to His Father in Heaven just before the crucifixion here.  Jesus LIFTED UP HIS EYES and spoke to His Father.  He lifted up his eyes to HEAVEN.

He is clearly speaking to someone OTHER THAN HIMSELF!  He asks this Father to glorify Him, Jesus, that Jesus may glorify His Father.  Now how in this world can you sensibly make this be sensible with Jesus being the only one you think is in the Godhead?

v2--He says to his Father,  You gave Me power over all flesh, that I might give eternal life to all that YOU GAVE TO ME.  Now who is Jesus speaking to here?  Why did he say,  You gave them to me, to?  If he is the only one as you suppose, why would he say to himself,  you gave them to me?  Is this sensible?  Why would you think Jesus would speak in such a foolish way?

BUT,  here is the proof:  Read carefully verse 3--- Jesus is saying to God, His Father,  " and this is life eternal, that they may know  THEE (you) the ONLY TRUE  GOD ---------

AND----

Jesus Christ  whom -----

You-----

sent.

Jesus clearly called God, his Father   --- the only true  God.  Here.  You can't make anything else out of this reading.

Then v4-- Jesus said to God, "I have glorified YOU on earth.   I   have   FINISHED     the WORK---

YOU-----

GAVE-------

ME---- TO DO.

HUH?  Jesus gave himself some work to do?  I think not!  No.

In the mouth of two or three witnesses   let every word be established.

I am one which bear witness of myself and the Father which sent me bears witness of me. 

There is your two witnesses of Jesus --- Jesus and his Father .


Reply
 Message 3 of 5 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 6/28/2007 3:34 AM
From: <NOBR>MSN NicknameIsaiah·</NOBR> Sent: 12/12/2003 11:25 PM
 
Matt. 27: 46.  And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
 

Please explain, with KJV Scripture, who was Jesus speaking to?  Who is this he is calling   HIS  GOD?

If Jesus is God, and the only one,  why is he saying here to someone else,  My God?  Is He saying himself is his own God?

If so, how is it that he  FORSOOK himself?

answer with some sense and truth; not made up stuff.

anyone who wishes to join in and discuss these things is certainly welcome.  It is for everyone.

Get to some truth  - who is Jesus calling  HIS  GOD?  How and why did this God of Jesus' forsake Jesus?

I want to see if anyone can stand and explain these Scriptures with other Scripture and not have to go to Strong's or some other man's material.  Prove all things with the Word of God.

Only the Word of God is truth.  If you cannot explain these things with other Scritpure, then you have not seen the truth yet.



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 Message 4 of 5 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 6/28/2007 3:35 AM
From: <NOBR>MSN NicknameIsaiah·</NOBR> Sent: 12/12/2003 11:31 PM
John 17: 8.  For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.
 
Here Jesus is praying to His Father just before his crucifixion   = death.  (How did they kill God).... can any one explain this.  Jesus told God that he, Jesus has given the words God gave to him to his disciples.  Now if Jesus is the one and only God as many say,  who is he speaking to?  Why is he saying to another being,  I gave to my disciples the words   YOU   GAVE  TO ME?
 
There is no way on earth these words can pertain to only 1 being as many  are trying to say.
 
Also how is it he says to God  You sent me?  You cannot explain this from the standpoint of God and Jesus being the same person.  There is no way.  You are avoiding this truth.
 

Reply
 Message 5 of 5 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 7/25/2007 10:28 PM
 
We teach exactly what the KJV says.
Salvation is brought about through obedience to the Written Word of God.
 
We teach exactly what the true Apostles of Christ said.
We teach and know that God is a many-membered kingdom just exactly as described in both 1Cor. 12 and Romans 12.
 
We being MANY are ONE body.  This one body is made up of MANY members.  As is Christ, so is God, for Christ is the IMAGE of God.
 
So if Christ is a many-membered kingdom, so is God's kingdom.
 
God is a SPIRIT.  God is not man, and man is not God.  We are sons of God.   Jesus was  the son of God.
 
Jesus never said I am god,  never, ever.  He always said  I am the Son of God.  Peter did not claim to believe that Jesus was God.  He said you are the son of God, and Jesus verified that this is the true foundation.
 
Not one single scripture says that Jesus was God in flesh, or God incarnated, or God robed in flesh, or anything of that nature.  If you think differents, please quote me that verse.  If Jesus were God, why did he never one time say so?  Do you not believe he told us the truth?
 
Not one single person is ever recorded in Scripture, to say I believe that you are God.  They all said I  believe you are the Son of God.
 
Jesus said,  God is a spirit.  That spirit kingdom is made up of many members, just as the human kingdom is made up of many members.
 
God is not 1 and he is not 3.    God is a full kingdom of SPIRIT beings.  They are ONE, meaning in a full unity of complete love and harmony.
 
Jesus prayed in John 17 that we would ALL be one as they are one.  Paul said   Ye are ALL   ONE.
 
So how many is that?  How many make up the ONE true church?
 
How many make up the ONE TRUE BRIDE?
 
We must believe the truth, believe the true God,  then repent of our sins,  meaning give them up.  make up our minds to quit.
then be water baptized in the Name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,  and be baptized with the Holy ghost into this ONE BODY OF CHIRST......with the evidence they showed in Acts. = speaking in tongues as the Spirit gives utterance.
 
Then we must live a Holy and Godly life, never turning back to sins.
 
This is EXACTLY what the KJV says.
 
Jo

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