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God and Jesus : Using the name
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 Message 1 of 2 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551  (Original Message)Sent: 10/24/2007 3:46 PM

~~ Using the Name ~~

John 16:22 And ye now therefore have sorrow: but I will see you again, and your heart shall rejoice, and your joy no man taketh from you.

Joh 16:23 And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.

Joh 16:24 Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full.

Joh 16:25 These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall show you plainly of the Father.

Joh 16:26 At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you:

Joh 16:27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.

Joh 16:28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.

To any here who truly wish to learn God’s truth, study this with an open heart. Pray and ask God to reveal his truth to you. Nothing I or anyone else says will open your understanding. Only God can do that. Jesus told us all to search the Scriptures. God said study to shew yourselves approved to God. Now he meant to study the Scriptures. So if all you do is read what some other person wrote, and not the Scripture itself, you will never have true revelation from God.

You may read this and believe it. But until you put time to God for yourself and study the Word itself, and let God speak to you, then and only then will you have the revelation for yourself. After God speaks to you and reveals something to you, it will be clear and you will never doubt it again. Now you can see from the above Scripture that I am speaking truth to you. But you still must feed upon it for yourself. You absolutely MUST study the Scriptures for yourself. If you do not do this you will never grow up in Him and have truth in your heart.

Now back to the Scripture: This is Jesus speaking to his disciples just before he was crucified. Up until that time, no one had used the name of Jesus. Up until that time, the name of Jesus was not the power. Up until that time, none of them had prayed in the name of Jesus. Why? Because Jesus had not been given the power at that time. Jesus was not in power to rule or be God at that time.

Every truth must have an OT type. Are you aware that God had set up a man, in the OT times, to be a god to someone? And that God also gave this other god a prophet? Yes, God made Moses a god to Pharaoh and he also made Aaron to be Moses�?prophet. Now that was done to show the world that God can and did, make a human man to be God. God made his Son, Jesus, to be our God. But this only happened after his resurrection. At the resurrection is when God beget his Son in his own likeness and glory. This is proven in Romans one, and in Acts 13. Ac 13:33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee. Ac 13:34 And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David.

Now that proves that the day he was begotten was the day of his resurrection. Ro 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; Ro 1:4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

Both those Scriptures say that the day Jesus was raised from the dead is the day God beget him as his only begotten Son.

Now back to John: John 16:24 Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name:

So Jesus told them then that up until that time, (hitherto) you have asked NOTHING in my name. This proves that they were not using the name of JESUS up until the time of his crucifixion.

John 16:25 These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall show you plainly of the Father. 16:26 At that day ye shall ask in my name:

Now Jesus shows them when they would start asking in his name. He said I will show you plainly of the Father. So at that time they did not know the Father plainly. They knew of an OT God and of course had to use the name of that God. But they did not one time consider using the name of Jesus. Why? Because they did not think that Jesus was God. They had not one time ever considered that this man was God. Jesus had not been given the power of God until his resurrection, so no one had asked in his name. He was not in authority then to work as God. He did heal the sick by faith in God. He did all those miracles by faith in God. But he was not the one whose name was in power. It was the name of the Father. His name is the LORD God or God of Hosts. Jesus was not the name of God.

After Jesus ascended on high, God gave Jesus all power in heaven and earth to rule as God. He commanded all the angels of God to worship his Son as God. So they did. Also on earth the understanding came to the disciples that now Jesus was OUR GOD. So now that Jesus was sitting on the throne of God, and God had decreed that no one can come to him but by Jesus, then the power was switched to the name of Jesus. Now we all must pray in the name of Jesus. We must baptize in the name of Jesus. If we raise the dead, this must be done in the name of Jesus. God will not allow anyone in this grace age of Church, to go to Him and use His name and bypass his Son.

Those of you who claim that Jesus is God and that you do not have to go to this God through his Son, are rebelling against the order of God himself. You are flat denying the Word and authority of God to set his Son up as God.

John 16:26 At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you:

John 16:27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.

John 16:28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.

At that day ye shall ask in my name. But they had not asked in his name before that day. Why? Because God was still in power and had not yet turned the power over to his Son.

Verse 28..I leave the world, and go to the Father.

Now be reasonable. If Jesus had been the Father, as you are claiming, why would he have to leave the world and GO TO THE FATHER?

If he were the Father, he would not have to GO TO THE FATHER. If the spirit of God which was in Jesus were all that there is of the Father, then it would be very silly to claim to leave the world to GO TO THE FATHER.

No ‘oneness�?teacher in this world can make sense of this statement of Jesus himself. He said the Father HIMSELF loves you because ye have loved me. You may accuse Jesus of speaking foolish, but I certainly do not. He did not mean, myself loves you because you have loved myself. No. Jesus did not speak that foolishly.

By: Jo Smith ~~~ October 24, 2007

 

 

 

 



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 Message 2 of 2 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 10/25/2007 1:51 AM

Re 5:3 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.

Re 5:4 And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.

Re 5:5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.

Re 5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

Re 5:8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.

Re 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, (notice, this is past tense, after Jesus was slain)--and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

Re 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Re 5:11 And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;

Re 5:12 Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing. (this is when he received this power.)

Re 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

Read this chapter. This happened in heaven after Jesus ascended to heaven, AFTER his resurrection. This is actually when all power in heaven and earth was passed to Jesus. Sure, Matthew 28 was after his resurrection.

�?B>singing�?a ‘new song�?/B>--- signifies a new move of God. They were all now accepting the decree of God, the Father, which was prophesied in Hebrews one. This is where all of that took place. God did not turn to rulership of the world over to his Son, Jesus, until Jesus had proven his full and complete obedience to God. Jesus did not fail, as Adam had failed.

God gave to His Son, Jesus the full authority of the Godhead here. He told all the angels of God to now worship his Son. They all immediately fell down before this new King and began to sing praises and worship to him.

You will so miss this real glory of Jesus if you fail to see this. You will fail to see that Jesus was given this special place of authority and power, which only the Eternal and Living God possessed, as a reward for his perfect obedience to God.

This is why Jesus make it clear all his life, that it was not he, but his Father, doing the mighty works through him. He always gave the glory to His Father. And this is NOT his inner man. It is God. His inner person is the same as ours, HUMAN. His mind was HUMAN. His soul was HUMAN.

He is STILL A MAN NOW IN HEAVEN. 1ti 2:5 For there is one God, and ONE MEDIATOR between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;