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Law & Sabbath : The Law is darkness
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 Message 1 of 11 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551  (Original Message)Sent: 9/12/2007 8:26 PM

~~ The Law is darkness ~~

The Old Testament Covenant had a certain set of laws, priests, prophets, rituals, place of worship, day of worship, and manner of worship. But, all of that was changed when the New Testament Covenant was established. It is of utmost importance to know this and abide by it. They are two completely different Covenants. You cannot belong to and keep both of them at the same time. You must completely leave one and cleave to the other one. They cannot co-exist. So, it very important to understand the differences in these two covenants and then decide which one you will try to abide by.

2Cor 3:1 Do we begin again to commend ourselves? or need we, as some others, epistles of commendation to you, or letters of commendation from you? 2co 3:2 Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men: 2co 3:3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshly tables of the heart.

2co 3:4 And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward: 2co 3:5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God; 2co 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

2co 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: 2co 3:8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious? 2co 3:9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

Heb 7:18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof. Heb 7:19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

Now there is more proof that God disannulled that old law covenant. You would have to call a lot of scripture lies, to deny this and hold to that old law. See that the law had to be changed when Jesus came in as our high priest. It is not the same old law. It does not work the same. That old law made nothing perfect. If you cling to that law, you will never be perfected.

Paul made it clear here that he was NOT speaking of the OT Law, of Moses, written in stone, when he said they were the epistles of Christ. He made it clear that he is speaking of living epistles, led of the Spirit of God. He was a NT Minister, ministering the Grace Covenant. This Grace Covenant was in their hearts, not written with ink. This then is the Law of Jesus Christ, not the OT Law. They are totally two different laws. They work differently. They have different results. That OT Law is the letter which KILLETH. It was death. It was the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. When Adam partook of this law, he passed into death. He was in Grace and eternal life, to begin with. But he left that first estate, of being the anointed covering cherub.

But the thing of it is that he WAS anointed of God to be the covering. Now he is that OT covering which is not sufficient. It is not long enough to do the job of covering the people’s sins and bringing them to God. Verse nine shows that this law ministry of Moses was of condemnation. So to act still under that law, is to still be under condemnation and death. Proof? Sure. 2co 3:11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious. 2co 3:12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech: 2co 3:13 And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:

2co 3:14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same veil untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which veil is done away in Christ. 2co 3:15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the veil is upon their heart.

Now that solidly proves that the old testament blinds people. It also proves that it was abolished, or done away with. Since this old covenant was abolished and done away with, another Covenant has to be in its place, thus proving that they are two different and totally opposite Covenants. You absolutely cannot be under both covenants. God said you cannot serve two masters. You are serving Satan, or Adam, Man, if you are still under that old law.

Col 1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: Col 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

The power of darkness was that old Law, with its ten horns, or ten commandments. That was darkness, or blindness or death. Those who come into Grace, or under the blood of Jesus, are translated into the kingdom of Jesus, God’s dear Son. This alone proves that you cannot be in both kingdoms, or covenants at the same time. If you have been translated out of that kingdom of darkness, you must no longer be living by the laws of the old covenant. You must now live by the New Testament laws of Jesus and his apostles. You must prove that everything you now believe and live by was taught by Jesus. Else you are still under the blood of bulls and goats, which can never take away sins. You are still in your sins, whosoever of you still go by the OT laws.

Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; Col 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a show of them openly, triumphing over them in it. Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

Now there is the proof that Jesus abolished, or did away with that old covenant of handwritten ordinances, which was against us. It also shows that the principalities and powers, were of that old law covenant. And to prove that this is the bondage which was against us: Ac 15:1 And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.

Ac 15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. Ac 15:8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; Ac 15:9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. Ac 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? Ac 15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they. Ac 15:23 And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia: Ac 15:24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

Now that clearly agrees with 11Cor. 3, that the old covenant was a bondage which was against us, and which Jesus abolished. It shows also that all of the apostles and elders were in total agreement on this matter, that it was subverting souls to say they must keep the law and be circumcised. So if you live your life according to that old law, and not the NT law, you are in bondage and will be lost.

Now for more proof that the law was the enmity of our soul: Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. Eph 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; Eph 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: Eph 2:17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. Eph 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. Eph 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

See verse 15 shows that Jesus abolished the enmity, even the LAW OF COMMANDMENTS. So this agrees with 11Cor. 3, that the old law of Moses was the enmity, which Jesus nailed to his cross, taking it out of the way. He abolished that law, or old covenant.

Now this is the same old enmity which was placed between Eve and that serpent. So it is the serpents, Pharisees, who love that old law, or the enmity. They love it because by this law, they can rule over others, mainly men ruling over the women. It is perversion of God’s chosen way of life. No matter what anyone says, Eve was not placed under that bondage until AFTER THEY SINNED. It was punishment to the entire human race. It is not of God. That law was not of God, for had it been, He would never have abolished it. God never changes. The Law of Jesus Christ is love, Grace. It is not law. Under this new law of Jesus, no one rules over anyone.

Proof: Mt 20:25 But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them. Mt 20:26 But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister; Mt 20:27 And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant: Mt 20:28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

Gal 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Ga 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. Ga 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. Ga 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. Ga 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. Ga 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. Ga 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Notice that. Before FAITH came, we were kept under law. In Christ ye are ALL ONE. This means we are all the same, with no one ruling over anyone. Neither male nor female, all one.

See, those still holding to the OT Law, which God abolished, cannot ever see this thing. They still want to see male and female. It is fleshly. They still wish to rule over others, for this is their way of receiving worship. It is that evil spirit of Adam, which brought sin into this world. He wanted to be God and be worshipped. He wanted to rule over Eve and others. This is why he deceived her into partaking of that law covenant. Under the Grace Covenant, we live by the law of Jesus, which said, with you it shall not be so. You are all ONE, or equals.

Gal 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. Ga 5:2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. Ga 5:3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. Ga 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. Ga 5:5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. Ga 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

Now regardless of how many proud men wish to hold the woman in bondage, this shows that all of the children of Christ were set free. We are not to be under that yoke of bondage. That yoke was first placed on women in the Garden of Eden, after they sinned. Jesus lifted this yoke of bondage. All who dare to still hold to this yoke are yourselves still under the yoke of law, and will perish. If you seek to be justified by the law, or keep any part of it, ye are debtor to do the WHOLE LAW. Not only that, but he said, you are fallen from grace. So this proves what I said to begin with, you cannot be under both covenants at the same time.

So you men who wish to rule over the woman, or anyone else, you are under this bondage of law and fallen from Grace. No salvation is under that law covenant. You women who allow yourselves to be ruled over in this manner, have not held fast to the liberty which Christ gave you. You are therefore still under that old bondage of law, and there is no faith in it. For if you had come to faith, you would have been set free of that law. That is just what the above Scripture said.

And to clinch it all: Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

So if you are still under that law, either ruling over others, or being ruled over, you are not led of the Spirit. If you are led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

You cannot be under Grace and wish to rule over others. It is contrary to all that Grace is. It is bondage. No person being ruled over is free. They are in bondage. If a man truly loved his wife as himself, he could not hold her in this bondage and attempt to deprive her of her rightful place in God.

Since God EXALTED them of low degree, the handmaidens, then they are at the top. God did not half exalt them. He fully exalted them. So they can minister anything which a man can. In fact, it looks a whole lot as if the man no longer can, for he has forfeited this right and God removed them from their high seat.

By: Jo Smith�?Sept. 12, 2007



First  Previous  2-11 of 11  Next  Last 
Reply
 Message 2 of 11 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameYESHUWAHsSent: 12/2/2007 1:14 PM
These passages of Scripture tell us the Torah is still valid today:
 
MT 5:17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Torah or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Torah until everything is accomplished. Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the Torah, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.
 
RO 2:12 All who sin apart from the Torah will also perish apart from the Torah, and all who sin under the Torah will be judged by the Torah. For it is not those who hear the Torah who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the Torah who will be declared righteous.
 
RO 2:25 Circumcision has value if you observe the Torah, but if you break the Torah, you have become as though you had not been circumcised. If those who are not circumcised keep the requirements of Torah, will they not be regarded as though they were circumcised? The one who is not circumcised physically and yet obeys the Torah will condemn you who, even though you have the written code and circumcision, are a lawbreaker.
 
RO 3:19 Now we know that whatever the Torah says, it says to those who are under the Torah, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. Therefore no one will be declared righteous in His sight by observing the Torah; rather, through the Torah we become conscious of sin.
 
RO 3:29 Is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of gentiles too? Yes, of gentiles too, since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith. Do we, then, nullify the Torah by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the Torah.
 
RO 7:7 What shall we say, then? Is the Torah sin? Certainly not! Indeed I would not have known what sin was except through the Torah.
 
RO 7:12 So then, the Torah is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good.
 
RO 8:3 For what the Torah was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. And so He condemned sin in sinful man, in order that the righteous requirements of the Torah might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.
 
RO 13:8 Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for he who loves his fellowman has fulfilled the Torah. The commandments, "Do not commit adultery," "Do not murder," "Do not steal," "Do not covet," and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule: "Love your neighbor as yourself." Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the Torah.
 
As we see, it is christian fallacy to teach the Torah is no longer valid for new covenant Yisra'el. Their champion, Paul, tells those with eyes to see that it is necessary for all believers to meet the requirements set forth in the Torah.

Reply
 Message 3 of 11 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 12/3/2007 3:08 PM

Ro 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Ro 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Ro 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

Ro 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Ro 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

Ro 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

Ro 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Ro 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Ro 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Ro 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

Ro 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Ro 8:12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

Ro 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

Ro 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

 


Reply
 Message 4 of 11 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameYESHUWAHsSent: 12/4/2007 3:32 AM

Ro 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Ro 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Ro 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

Here again, it is the flesh, not the 'law' itself, that is weak.

Ro 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

As I have always claimed, those who walk after the Spirit will meet the requirements of the 'law.'

Ro 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

Ro 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

Ro 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

More evidence that those who walk after the Spirit are subject to the 'law.'

Ro 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Ro 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Ro 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

Ro 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Ro 8:12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

Ro 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

Ro 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Thank you for proving my point further.

Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Only sinners are 'under the law.' Believers who no longer continue to sin 'UPHOLD THE LAW.'

RO 3:31 Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.

If you do not 'uphold the law,' you are not a believer.


Reply
 Message 5 of 11 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 12/4/2007 3:22 PM
Yeshuwahs, there are two DIFFERENT laws.  We uphold the law which governs GRACE;  not the laws which uphold LAW.
 
there is a very big difference.  but since you reject the only one who can teach you, then you will never know it.

Reply
 Message 6 of 11 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameYESHUWAHsSent: 12/5/2007 12:08 AM
 
Yeshuwahs, there are two DIFFERENT laws. 
 
No, there are two different covenants, one Torah.
 
We uphold the law which governs GRACE;  not the laws which uphold LAW.
 
Makes no sense Scripturally, Free. How do laws uphold law? LOL
 
there is a very big difference.  but since you reject the only one who can teach you, then you will never know it.
 
I reject 'jesus,' the false messiah. He is where your strange doctrines come from, apparently. You certainly don't get them from the Scriptures.

Reply
 Message 7 of 11 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 12/5/2007 12:30 AM
You say Babylon is the Christians, yet Jesus told the Pharisees that they are the one who are guilty of killing all the righteous on this earth.
 
Those pharisees were NOT Christians.  they were fighting, persecuting and killing the Christians. they and the chief priest of those JEWS, are the very ones who conspired to murder Jesus Christ.
 
While Paul was a Pharisees in the JEWS religion, he was fighting and murdering Christains.  But just as soon as Paul became a Christian himself, those same old JEWS, in that JEWS religion, began to persecute and sought to murder Paul.
 
Doesn't say much for your 'precious Jews religion'  now does it?
 
They are the Babylon who is the murderer of all the righteous on earth.  They are in every church denomination on earth.  They infiltrate every thing on earth with their poisonous lies against Christ and his true People, those of us who found GRACE.
 
Love is the law which governs GRACE.  Love thy neighbor as thyself.  Yet almost every religion on earth kills those who disagree with them.  Those Jews in that Jews religion of LAW, have always been at the heart of this murdering rage against all others.
 
It is not of Jesus Christ.  He did not hurt anyone and he taught us not to do so.
 
I have warned you not to slander this Jesus any more.  I mean it.  Stop it if you wish to remain here.
 
Jesus Christ is God's son, who died for us all.  I will not stand for your slandering him.  I have told you, I do not wish to ban you, but if you cannot stop calling him false, OUT YOU WILL GO.
 
I will show you the truth of these two different laws.  But it will take time.  If you wish to know, stop slandering Jesus and I will show you.  I cannot do it now, for I have to work again tonight.
 
But for starters,  hear this:  killing animals for sin offerings is not of God,  but it is a law which governs LAW.
When one is under LAW, they are in bondage, darkness, carnality,  (as law is the carnal mind)  it is witchcraft, it is against God and truth, it is eternal death.
 
The cleansing blood of Jesus is the  sacrifice which governs Grace.  Only those in Grace have this benefit, of having all their sins taken away.  the blood of animals, offered by law, can never do this.
 
Being ruled over by another is a law of those under law.  They must obey their rulers.  Under Grace, Jesus said none of you will rule over the others.
 
Under law, women are treated as sub-servent members of the human race.  Under Grace, we are all on equal grounds, or ALL ONE.  That is a law which governs grace,  =  we are all one.  Means the same or equals.
 
One must be dead to law in order to be married to Christ, so they could not be the same things.
 
 aslaw for those under LAW, is that none of them, except the high priest, could ever go into the holiest of all = the presence of God.  But under grace, our law says that we are all priests and may all go into the presence of God.
 
Under LAW, man chose his own ways, instead of conforming to God's ways.
 
Under Grace, our law says that we are not our own, but must obey our Lord and Master, Jesus Christ.
 
That is a good start.

Reply
 Message 8 of 11 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 12/5/2007 1:27 AM
Ok, I have a few more minutes before I must leave for my job.
 
One of the biggest or clearest places where these two different 'laws' differ is in their observance of Sabbath.
Surely you know that it is that old death law which requires a weekly keeping.?
 
There is no such command in the NT, or Grace covenant.  and this is precisely why all those  of you who reverted back to law, as did Noah, for a while, think you see this law.  You are under law, so you see this in Scripture.  You also see this as a discrepency in the Word of God.
 
But see that God called that old way the seed of discrepency.

Isa 1:4 Ah sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, a seed of evildoers, children that are corrupters: they have forsaken the LORD, they have provoked the Holy One of Israel unto anger, they are gone away backward.

Grace and truth came by Jesus Christ, but law came by Moses.

These are two different covenants and two different laws.

Heb 7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

Heb 7:13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.

Heb 7:14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.

Heb 7:15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,

Heb 7:16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.

Heb 7:17 For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

Heb 7:18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.

Heb 7:19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

This is plain enough for anyone to see it.  If you don't, you just plain do not wish to.  YOu love your darkness.

The law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did.  The priesthood was changed, so it made it necessary to CHANGE THE LAW.

It is a different law, a different priest. The Levitical priesthood could not do it, so God gave us a priest from the tribe of Judah, Jesus Christ.

He does not minister under that old law of bondage.  All the NT ministers, or apostles, understood this, and would not go back under that old law of bondage. They wanted no part of it.

If you go back to that old law, then you must obey it all.  You all try to keep parts of it, and then try to get some of Grace.  It does not work.  It is all of one, without the other,  or you must take all of Grace and forsake that old way.

You cannot mix them.  Every person I have ever run into who claims to be of that law, and glory in their seventh day sabbath, also try to claim they have grace.  It is nothing but delusions and destruction for you.

 

If you must keep seventh day sabbath, then you MUST go back and do it as MOSES commanded you to do.  Do not pick up one stick on this day, or be STONED TO DEATH.

That is a law which governs LAW.

Do not go out your door on that day.  or be STONED TO DEATH.  That is a law which governs LAW.

nONE OF YOU wish to go by this, yet it is the LAW OF THAT SABBATH.

Buying and selling anything on this day is grounds for being STONED TO DEATH.  That is a law of the old law.

If you need proof, get into Moses books and study it out for yourself.  I have already done it and those messages are in my board on Sabbath/law.

Do not start a fire on that day, or be stoned to death.  That is a law which governs this sabbath law.

So what about the Grace Sabbath or rest?  Read Isa 28.  With stammering lip and another tongue will I speak to this people, to whom he said THIS IS THE REST to whom the weary will find REST.

It is the rest to the soul.  Jesus GIVES it to us, by the Baptism of the Holy Ghost.  it is most glorious.  We come into God's presense and worship anywhere, anytime.  Grace.  All day, every day.  No stoning law here.

Forgiveness is a law which governs Grace.  Forgive every trespass against you.  Under that old law, it is not  possible, for you must take them to the judges and have them STONED TO DEATH.

 

If one is caught in adultery,  take them and have them stoned to death.  That is a law governing LAW (bet none of you wish to see this enforced!)

Jesus broke that and gave the woman FORGIVENESS,  BY WHAT LAW?  bY GRACE.

This is exactly why those Jews hated this Jesus and had him put to death.......he crossed their LAW.  He broke THEIR SABBATH.

He forgave sin...he did not have them stoned to death.  How dare him?  Moses said stone them to death!  How dare him say forgive them?


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 Message 9 of 11 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 12/5/2007 1:40 AM
OK,  here is a bit more.  This shows the law which governs Grace;
 

Mt 6:10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

Mt 6:11 Give us this day our daily bread.

Mt 6:12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.

Mt 6:13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.

Mt 6:14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

Mt 6:15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

He is speaking of when the kingdom of Jesus comes..  under this law, we receive DAILY bread or food of the Word of God.....not just on the 7th day.

those old Jews just hate this one.  so do you.

Next, we must forgive our debtors or not be forgiven.  You will not find this under that old law.  You will not find daily bread there either.

Jesus made it clear here, that we MUST forgive others, in order to be forgiven.  If we do not forgive, then we will not be forgiven.

 

Not so under that old law.  The law which governs that is take them to the judges and have them stoned to death.  If parents have children which are disobedient they had to take them to be stoned to death.  That is a law which governs that old law.

but here, under the teaching of Jesus,  Grace, we must FORGIVE ALL TREPESSES.

tHAT IS  a LAW which GOVERNS Grace.

Grace is most marvelous,  but you must be willing to obey Jesus Christ and his teachings.  else you are still under that old stoning law, and some day God will stone you all to death.  it is in Revelations.

 

Now do you see where I get these teachings?  It is an understanding given to me by my Lord and Master because I obey him and study his word.

Does your 'bible' or whatever it is you read and believe, say any of this?


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 Message 10 of 11 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 12/5/2007 6:41 PM

Ex 21:24 Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,

Ex 21:25 Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe. Ex 21:26 And if a man smite the eye of his servant, or the eye of his maid, that it perish; he shall let him go free for his eye's sake.

Ex 21:27 And if he smite out his manservant's tooth, or his maidservant's tooth; he shall let him go free for his tooth's sake.

Ex 21:28 If an ox gore a man or a woman, that they die: then the ox shall be surely stoned, and his flesh shall not be eaten; but the owner of the ox shall be quit.

Ex 21:29 But if the ox were wont to push with his horn in time past, and it hath been testified to his owner, and he hath not kept him in, but that he hath killed a man or a woman; the ox shall be stoned, and his owner also shall be put to death.

Many such laws govern Law. But what did Jesus teach about this?

Mt 5:38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:

Mt 5:39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

Mt 5:40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also.

Mt 5:41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain. Mt 5:42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.

Mt 5:43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.

Mt 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

Mt 5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

See, this is the very opposite of the laws which govern Law. These laws govern Grace. Under Grace, or the NT, we are to forgive every trespass against ourselves, or God will not forgive us. We do not have the choice. If we wish to abide in his Grace, we must obey his commandments to forgive others.

Under that old law, they were to demand an eye for an eye, tooth for tooth. You slap me, I slap you back. Your ox kill someone, you die with him. Now that is exactly what that old law said and demanded. You cannot take only parts of this old law, and then try to mix it up with Grace. God does not do it that way.

You may deceive yourself into thinking you have deceived God and that he will think you are right with him. But it is not possible. You either make the tree good and his fruit good, or you make the tree evil and his fruit evil. It cannot go both ways. You cannot live by the laws of that old law and then have some of the blessings of Grace. It is all or nothing.

The laws which govern Grace are opposite in every way from the laws which govern Law.

That old law is DEATH, DARKNESS, DECEPTION. But the New Law of Grace, or life in Christ Jesus is Life, Light, and truth.

This is the very reason so many say errors and discrepancies are in the Word of God. They see from the standpoint of that old Law, then they see the law of life in Christ Jesus saying something different, and they know not the difference. So they can only call it errors. But the ERROR is in their own deceived minds.

Under Grace, we are Not to avenge ourselves, as they did under that old law. We are to forgive every trespass against ourselves. That is the part most folks have trouble with and want no part of. But if you want the Grace and mercy of God you must live by the standards Jesus set up, not by the law of Moses.

If you revert back to that old law at any point, you loose out with Grace and Jesus and eternal life. You fall from Grace.

Gal 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

Ga 5:2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.

Ga 5:3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.

Ga 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.


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 Message 11 of 11 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 12/11/2007 12:30 AM
Yeshuwahs,  Why have you not dealt with this thread?   Did you overlook it or just not have an answer?
 
Here is some more of the difference in the 'laws' which governed Law, and those which govern Grace:
 

John 4:19 The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet.

John 4:20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.

Joh 4:21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.

Joh 4:22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

Joh 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Joh 4:25 The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.

Joh 4:26 Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he.

You surely know that under that old coveant and old Israel, that they were commanded to go only to Jerusalem to worship?  Even if they lived a long way from there, they still had to go back there at least once a  year to worship.

 

See this woman knew that. She knew those Jews had to worship at Jerusalem and the Samariatans said the right place was in their mountain.  Now that was their LAW.  They had to worship at a certain place and at a certain time.

 

But truth of it is,  God told us in more than one Scripture that he HATES this thing of a set place and a set time.

See, Jesus taught us the truth of God's ways.  He taught us the truth of God's will for man.  God's way and will is GRACE, NOT LAW.

 

See, under the New Covenant or Grace, Jesus said it is NEITHER JERUSALEM OR THE MOUNTAIN.

 

He said God is a SPIRIT and he seeks those who will worship him is SPIRIT AND TRUTH.

 

See.  You cannot have true worship without truth.  and you have no truth. 

 

Now do you understand any at all about these two different laws?  if not,  I have to say you have no understanding at all,  this is too clear.  You ridiculed me when I spoke of these two different sets of laws,  yet when I proved it, you go without another word.

 

How about the rest of you?  Do any of you see the difference here in the laws which goverened Law and the laws which govern Grace?

One of the commandments which govern Grace, in deed determine if you can get into Grace is REPENT AND BE WATER BAPTIZED IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS AND YOU SHALL RECEIVE THE GIFT OF THE HOLY GHOST.

 

Without obedience to this Grace LAW,  you will never have grace or forgiveness of sins.  Your sins remain.  Your sins will never be remitted any other way.

 

So everyone who rejects this command, given by Peter, from God, will never have salvation.  See, your false doctrine has blinded you to this clear command of God for salvation to be given to you.

See that every person who holds to old LAW or trinity falsehood, refuse to obey this command or to even acknowledge that it is a command from God, when the Word clearly says it is.


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