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| | From:  Sobeit33 (Original Message) | Sent: 2/26/2004 2:49 AM |
| THOU ART MY GOD Psalms 22: 1. My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? Why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring? Matt. 27: 46. And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? That is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? Mark 15: 34. And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? Which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? Which is, being interpreted... Jesus was speaking in tongues here. (Which is being interpreted!) Now back to Psalms 22. If you have never read this chapter, you really should read it. Don’t miss it! Now our opening verses fully establish that this in Psalms 22 is Jesus speaking. This is clearly at the time of his crucifixion. All of his words here will break your heart, if you have a heart. But since I am only dealing in this message with the part of Thou art my God, I will use only those verses. 9. But thou art he that took me out of the womb: thou didst make me hope when I was upon my mother's breasts. 10. I was cast upon thee from the womb: thou art my God from my mother's belly. Verse 10 Jesus tells God, “Thou are my God from my mother’s belly.�?Do you believe Jesus? He said to God, you are my God. If you deny this, you must call this word a lie or call Jesus a lie or both. You may not realize it but Jesus is the one speaking all through Psalms. Most people make the mistake of thinking it is David. But not so. It is Jesus. Jesus is called David in some Scriptures. In verse 22 he tells God I will praise thee. See Jesus worshiped God, His God. Now to the people who want to claim that there is only 1 person in the Godhead, this makes it very clear that it could NOT BE JESUS, for Jesus is calling someone else His God here. It is Jesus in the other chapters saying to God, O My God, I trust in thee. Yet I will use only verses which are solid proof. There are too many who will say this is not Jesus. But you cannot deny this in chapter 22 and in the other chapters I will use. (And remember all we need is two Scriptures to establish it as truth.) We have already listed the needed three at the beginning of this message. Psm. 31: 5. Into thine hand I commit my spirit: thou hast redeemed me, O Lord God of truth. Now by this verse I have established that this is again Jesus speaking. 13. For I have heard the slander of many: fear was on every side: while they took counsel together against me, they devised to take away my life. 14. But I trusted in thee, O Lord: I said, Thou art my God. Now verse 13 proves this is Jesus, for he is the one they took counsel together to destroy. See verse 14? Again he says to God, “Thou art my God.�?/FONT> I would not want to be guilty of denying this and calling God’s Word a lie. Psm. 35: 11. False witnesses did rise up; they laid to my charge things that I knew not. 12. They rewarded me evil for good to the spoiling of my soul. 13. But as for me, when they were sick, my clothing was sackcloth: I humbled my soul with fasting; and my prayer returned into mine own bosom. 14. I behaved myself as though he had been my friend or brother: I bowed down heavily, as one that mourneth for his mother. 15. But in mine adversity they rejoiced, and gathered themselves together: yea, the abjects gathered themselves together against me, and I knew it not; they did tear me, and ceased not: 16. With hypocritical mockers in feasts, they gnashed upon me with their teeth. 17. Lord, how long wilt thou look on? Rescue my soul from their destructions, my darling from the lions. If you go back and read the first part of this chapter it is telling about Judas, the betrayer of Jesus. Read on down and you will find the very same words recorded in Psm. 22, proving this is still Jesus speaking. See v17, he said these very same words in Psm. 22 which is very clearly about the crucifixion. Now... Not one word could cause anyone to think the person speaking has been changed: 23. Stir up thyself, and awake to my judgment, even unto my cause, my God and my Lord. 24. Judge me, O Lord my God, according to thy righteousness; and let them not rejoice over me. See again Jesus calls God My God and My Lord. V24, Judge me, O Lord my God. Psm. 38: 13. But I, as a deaf man, heard not; and I was as a dumb man that openeth not his mouth. 14. Thus I was as a man that heareth not, and in whose mouth are no reproofs. 15. For in thee, O Lord, do I hope: thou wilt hear, O Lord my God. Now this is Jesus before Pilot, that he opened not his mouth. Verse 15 he again calls God my God. There are so many I could do a message 20 or more pages long with just copied verses. But I will only show a few. Psalms 40: 1. I waited patiently for the Lord; and he inclined unto me, and heard my cry. 2. He brought me up also out of an horrible pit, out of the miry clay, and set my feet upon a rock, and established my goings. 3. And he hath put a new song in my mouth, even praise unto our God: many shall see it, and fear, and shall trust in the Lord. Now this Scripture is profound - it is speaking of the resurrection, when God brought Jesus up out of the grave and out of the human flesh, = the miry clay. Verse 3, even praise unto OUR GOD. 5. Many, O Lord my God, are thy wonderful works which thou hast done, and thy thoughts which are to us-ward: they cannot be reckoned up in order unto thee: if I would declare and speak of them, they are more than can be numbered. 6. Sacrifice and offering thou didst not desire; mine ears hast thou opened: burnt offering and sin offering hast thou not required. 7. Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me, 8. I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart. Can anyone doubt that the above Scripture is Jesus speaking? He said I come in the volume of the book it is written of me. You know Hebrews quotes this and says it is Jesus. Verse 5 he says to God, O Lord my God. Verse 8, I delight to do thy will, O MY GOD. Here again Jesus calls God MY GOD. 17. But I am poor and needy; yet the Lord thinketh upon me: thou art my help and my deliverer; make no tarrying, O my God. Here again Jesus calls him My God. Psm. 45: 6. Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre. 7. Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. Now here again we have a Scripture, which is quoted in Hebrews. This is where God sets Jesus at his own right hand and gives him a name above every name, and the name he inherited, that he should be called our God. God calls Jesus God and calls himself God to Jesus. This should be enough proof for even the blindest person. If you reject this much Scripture and cling to a false church teaching, God will judge you. BY: Jo Smith- May 26/03 |
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Others viewed Jesus as God 1 Timothy 3:16 -Paul Said Jesus was God manifested in the flesh. "And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the nations, believed on in the world, received up into glory." | John 20:28 -Thomas called Jesus God. "And Thomas answered, and said unto him, My Lord and my God." | Colosians 2:8,9 -Paul said Jesus was the fullness of the Godhead bodily. "…Christ. For in him dwelleth all of the fullness of the Godhead bodily." | Titus 2:13 -Paul said Jesus was God. "Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our savior, Jesus Christ." | Luke 8:39 -After Jesus healed a demon possessed man, Jesus said: "Return to thine house, and show what great things God hath done unto thee. And he went on his way and published throughout the whole city what great things Jesus had done unto him." | Rom. 14:10b -12 -Paul uses the words Jesus and God interchangeably. "For we shall all stand before the judgment Seat of Christ. For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. So, then, "every one of us shall give account of himself to God." | Luke 8:39 -After Jesus healed a demon possessed man, Jesus said: "Return to thine house, and show what great things God hath done unto thee. And he went on his way and published throughout the whole city what great things Jesus had done unto him." | Phil. 2:5b, 6 -Paul said Jesus was God. "�?Jesus Christ, who being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God." | The people around Jesus understood Jesus was claiming to be God John 10:33 -The Jews felt Jesus was claiming to be God. "The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not, but for blasphemy: and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God." | John 5:18 -The Jews felt Jesus was making himself equal with God. "Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the Sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God." | Jesus claimed to be God | John 10:30 - Jesus said He was part of God. He said, "I and my Father are one." | Exodus 3:14 -God identifies Himself to Moses by calling himself "I AM." Twice Jesus refers to Himself as the "I AM." Those around him knew exactly what he was saying and they were greatly offended. "Jesus said unto them, Verily verily, I say you, before Abraham was, I am. Then they took up stones to cast at him �? (John 8:58, 59a) "Whom seek ye? They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them I am he. As soon as he said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground." (John 18:4b, 5, 6) [Note: In the Bible, the word "he" is in italic. Whenever a word was not in the original Greek or Hebrew, but was put in for clarity, the King James translators put the word in italic. This was done so there would be no misunderstanding about what was and was not part of the original text] | Revelation 1:8 -18 -Jesus said, he is the Almighty Lord. The following is a vision John had of Jesus. Verses 2, 13, 17,18 identify Jesus as the: (v 2) "�?testimony of Jesus Christ �? (v 8) "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty." (v 11) "Saying I am alpha and Omega, the first and the last�? (v 13) "And in the midst of the seven lamp stands, one like the Son of man �? (v 17b. 18a) "Fear not; I am the first and the last; I am he that liveth and was dead�? | | Isaiah 44:6 -In Rev 1:11, Jesus says He is the first and the last. Isa. 44:6 shows that the one who is "first and the last is actually God. "Thus saith the Lord, the King of Israel, and his redeemer, the Lord of host: I am the first, and I am the last, and beside me there is not God." | The Bible says Jesus is God Hebrews 1:8 -God the Father said Jesus was God. "Unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever; a scepter of righteousness is the scepter of thy kingdom." | | Isaiah 9:6 -Jesus (the Messiah) is called the Mighty God. "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given, and the government shall be upon his shoulder; and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The Mighty God, the Everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace." | | Matthew 1:23 -Jesus is called Immanuel, which means "God with us." "Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Immanuel, which, being interpreted, is God with us." | Micah 5:2 -Jesus (the Messiah) is everlasting. "But thou, Bethlehem, Ephrathah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall come forth unto me that is to be the ruler in Israel, whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting." | Zechariah 12:10 -God uses the first person (“me�? and the third person (“him�? to describe Himself as the one who will be pierced. And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the Spirit of grace and of supplications; and they shall look upon ME whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for HIM, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn. | John 1:1 -Jesus (the "Word") is God "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." | Revelation 22:6, 16 -The book of Revelation says that Jesus and God are the same. (v6) "And he said unto me, These words are faithful and true; and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to show unto his servants the things which must shortly be done." (v 16) "I, Jesus, have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches �? | Every knee will bow to both God and Jesus. Here are verses talking about every knee bowing to God. "Look unto me and be saved, all the ends of the earth; for I am God and there is none else. �?that unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear" (Isaiah 45:22,23b) | Here are verses talking every knee bowing to Jesus. "�?stand before the Judgment Seat of Christ. For it is written, As I live saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me and every tongue shall confess to God." (Romans 14:10b, 11) "That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow �?and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord." (Philippians 2:10a,11a) | John 5:23 -We have to honor Jesus "That all men should honor the Son, even as they honor the Father. He that honoreth not the Son honoreth not the Father who hath sent him." | God and Jesus are called our "Savior." Here are verses calling God our savior. "�?I am He, before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the Lord and besides me there is no savior." (Isaiah 43:10b, 11) "�?And there is no God else beside me, a just God and Savior; there is none beside me." (Isaiah 45:21b) | Here are verses calling Jesus our savior. Neither is there salvation in any other; for there is no other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." (Acts 4:12) "But hath in due time manifested his word through preaching, which is committed unto me according to the commandment of God, our Savior;" (Titus 1:3) "Not purloining, but showing all good fidelity, that they may adorn the doctrine of God, our Savior, in all things." (Titus 2:10) "But after the kindness and love of God, our Savior, toward man appeared." (Titus 3:4) "To Titus, mine own son after the common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God, the Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ, our Savior." (Titus 1:4) "Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ, our Savior," (Titus 3:6) | Both God and Jesus created all things. Here are verses that say God created all things "Ah, Lord God! Behold, thou hast made the heaven and the earth by Thy great power and outstretched arm, and there is nothing too hard for thee: �?the Great, the Mighty God, the Lord of hosts, is his name," l (Jeremiah 32:17, 18b) Have we not all one father? Hath not one God created us?" (Malachi 2:10b) "Thus saith the Lord, thy redeemer, and he who formed thee from the womb: I am the Lord who maketh all things; who stretcheth forth the heavens alone; who spreadeth abroad the earth by myself." (Isaiah 44:24) "And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the Heavens are the worlds of thine hand." (Hebrews 1:10) | Here are verses that say Jesus created all things "�?Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, who was, and is, and is to come. …Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honor and power; for thou has created all things, and for thy pleasure they were created." (Revelation 4:8b, 11) "All things were made by him (Jesus), and without him was not anything made that was made." (John 1:3) "Who is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of all creation; For by him all things were created, that are in heaven and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers - all things were created by him and for him. And he is before all things, and by him all things consist." (Col. 1:15, 16) "Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom He hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds." (Hebrews 1:2) | Both God and Jesus raised Jesus from the dead. Here are verses that say God raised Jesus from the dead. "And to wait for His Son from Heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus, who delivered us from the wrath to come." (1 Thes. 1:10) "But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also give life to your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you." (Romans 8:11) | Here are verses that say Jesus raised Himself from the dead. " Jesus answered, and said unto them Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." (John 2:19) "Therefore doeth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again." (John 10:17, 18a) | |
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| | | From: joie | Sent: 4/15/2004 4:58 AM |
Apostolicminister, Do you understand what the word ' both' means? Many of the verses you brought forth here you have twisted their real saying and meaning. That is because you do not have the true interpretation of them. When the truth is made clear, there has to be no twisting for the truth to come forth. I will try to get back to this later, (it is too late tonight) and take them one at a time and show you where you are not getting them right. Now I noticed you used the word 'both' several times when refering to Jesus and His Father. So what does both mean? Websters says this: Used as a function word to indicate and stress the inclusion of each of TWO OR MORE THINGS SPECIFIED BY COORDINATED WORDS, PHRASES OR CLAUSES. --- BEING THE two. iN OTHER WORDS, both, shows there are at least TWO beings being spoken of. | Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. | | If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: | | For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds. Now this said if we abide in the doctrine of Christ we have --BOTH-- the Father -- AND-- the Son. This is clearly TWO different beings.......then he said if someone brings us some other doctrine, not to even let them into our house or bid him God speed. for bidding him God speed is partaking of his evil deeds. So what is this evil deed he speaks of? Saying that the Father and the Son are not a BOTH. This is the doctrine of Christ, that the FATHER ---SENT---THE -SON- TO BE THE SAVOUR OF THE WORLD........THIS MAKES THEM ----BOTH---OUR SAVOUR. | |
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| | | From: joie | Sent: 4/15/2004 5:23 AM |
You copied and pasted a bunch of twisted words here. I have seen this list before. They are not true to the Word of God. When will you deal with the questions you cannot answer with Scripture and stay true to that Jesus only lie? Let's try a few again. You never would deal with them before. See if you can now. After all, if you cannot answer these questions with Scripture, and be true, then you ought to be honest with your own heart and acknowledge that you do not have the true understanding. Now: | Grace be with you, mercy, and peace, from God the Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love. Try that one. Jesus Christ, the SON OF THE FATHER. who is the Son; who is the Father. Who fathered who? | | That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ. | .....with the Father, AND with HIS SON, JESUS CHRIST. Now this shows two again. A father and a son. How you explain this? | Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. | It is antichrist to deny there is a Father AND a Son, who is not the Father. Jesus is not his own Father. Who was he crying out to on the cross when he said, MY GOD. MY GOD. WHY HAVE YOU FORSAKEN ME? who was he calling his GOD? If Jesus is God, how is it that he has a God? Now you said he is the beginning and the ending. This is true. BUT, what is he the ending of? God had no beginning or ending, so how is Jesus the end? God had no mother; or father; or beginning or end of life; How is it that Jesus had both a mother and a father? a beginning and end of life? Is Mary the mother of God? How did God reduce himself down and become a seed inside a human woman? Where was God during the time Jesus was forming in Mary's womb? Where was God during the time Jesus was dead? In hell? Who did Jesus pray to? Why did he have to pray? Who gave him all power? Why did it have to be given to Him? Why did Peter preach that God anointed Jesus with the Holy Ghost and power? | How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him. Now this said (Peter preaching) that God anointed Jesus with the Holy Ghost and with power. Why would he say this if Jesus were God? Why would God have to be anointed with the Holy Ghost and with power? Who was the God who anointed him? Why did Peter say for God was WITH HIM? Why did he not say as you do, Jesus was God, or God was Jesus? Why-- God was WITH HIM? | Why did Peter say God | Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men. | | The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree. | | Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins. God EXALTED Jesus to be a Prince and a Saviour. God had to EXALT Jesus for Jesus to be a Prince and a Saviour. Peter said the God OF our fathers RAISED UP JESUS, he did not say Jesus is the God of our fathers. A dead man cannot raise himself. It was the Word speaking inside Jesus; not Jesus himself. If Jesus were God as you claim, why did God have to exalt him? Now mind you, this is PETER preaching this. I think you claim to believe what Peter taught? right? Then how about this message? See if you can answer any of these questions rightly. | |
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| | | From: joie | Sent: 4/15/2004 5:43 AM |
Here are verses that say Jesus created all things "�?Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, who was, and is, and is to come. …Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honor and power; for thou has created all things, and for thy pleasure they were created." (Revelation 4:8b, 11) "All things were made by him (Jesus), and without him was not anything made that was made." (John 1:3) "Who is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of all creation; For by him all things were created, that are in heaven and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers - all things were created by him and for him. And he is before all things, and by him all things consist." (Col. 1:15, 16) "Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom He hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds." (Hebrews 1:2) [Apost. min.] ******************************************************* The Scripture in Rev. 4 is speaking of the Father, not Jesus. | In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. | | The same was in the beginning with God. | | All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. | Now read those verses carefully. They are not speaking of Jesus. Not one word has been said in this scripture about Jesus. YOU....... supplied the Word 'Jesus', not the Scripture. It is not speaking of Jesus. It is speaking of God; the Word. Jesus is NOT the Word. The Word was INSIDE Jesus. ***********88 | Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: | | Who (still speaking of the Father) hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: (the Father is still the subject here). | | In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: | | Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: | | For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: | | And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. So this is saying that God is the one who created things. It is NOT speaking of Jesus. You are twisting these verses also. ************8 | God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, | | Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; | | Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; | | Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. | | For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? | | And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. | | And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire. | | But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. | | Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. | Now try to read these verses. God spoke to us in these last days by HIS SON. Not by himself----by his son. His shows possession. God appointed his Son to be heir of all things. Do you see that? God appointed this to Jesus his son. How can you be blind to this? Jesus sat down on God's own right hand. How is this possible if Jesus is that God? You are just being foolish. He obtained this excellent name by INHERITANCE. Do you understand the term inheritance? It means he received it from someone else. If he were God, he would not have had to 'inherit' anything. He beget this Son on the day of His resurrection. Jesus did not beget himself. Read Acts 13. Peter declared same thing Paul did in Rom. 1:4, that God beget his son the day he resurrected him. Now, we have here to transferrence of God's own power over to his son. God said to Jesus, therefore God, thy (meaning YOUR God has anointed you with this same power as God. Now let everyone worship my Son as God. That dear one, is how, when and where Isaiah 9:6 was brought in, that he should be called our God . this is why Thomas called him, My God. He is my God. But the Father is his God. If you deny this, you call the Word of God a lie. | |
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| | | From: joie | Sent: 4/15/2004 5:48 AM |
H | These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: | | As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. | | And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. | | I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. Now read this; it is Jesus' own words; *************************** Jesus is speaking TO HIS FATHER IN PRAYER. nOW DON'T GO MAKING JESUS SEEM FOOLISH, he did not pray to himself. He said to God, as YOU gave me power over all flesh, to give eternal life to them,,,,,,,,and this is eternal life..........that they might know THEE, (speaking to his Father) AND Jesus Christ whom YOU SENT. Now brother , you might be denying yourself eternal life by deny this Father and his Son. Jesus himself said these words...........that this is the way to eternal life........to know.......both......the Father...and his Son, Jesus. | |
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Dear Apostolic Minister
You make some reference in your post to the Lord Jesus using the "I am" about Himself. However I don't see this makes Him God Himself. Let me explain. We read in John 1:18 “No man hath seen God at any time�? and yet in Exodus 19 we read that Yahweh came down on Mount Sinai, and in Exodus 24:9 “Then went up Moses and Aaron …and they saw the God of Israel�? But John says that “No man hath seen God at any time�? Exodus 24 says Moses and Aaron went up into the mountain and they saw the God of Israel. Now does the book of Exodus contradict the gospel of John? Well, of course not. The two are reconciled by Acts chapter 7, where we read in Acts 7:38 “This is he (Moses), that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him from Mount Sinai�? So when it says that Yahweh came down onto the mountain and that they went up and they saw the God of Israel, Stephen tells us in Acts 7 that it wasn’t Yahweh himself, in person, who came down it was an angel who came down. Concerning that angel, we are told in Exodus 23 God says, Yahweh says “I send an angel before thee to keep thee in the way. Beware of him, for my name is in him�? So there was an angel who carried the name of Yahweh and it is said that where this angel went Yahweh was said to go. When this angel spake, it is said that Yahweh spake. When this angel did things, it is said that Yahweh did them. This angel then, represented Yahweh; he carried Yahweh’s name. But that angel was not Yahweh himself. That angel was not God himself in person. He represented God.
As Jesus said, he came in his Father’s name: “I am come (John 5:43) in my Father’s name�? John 17 “I have manifested thy name�?he said. In Philippians 2 we are told that because of Christ’s humility and his perfect sacrifice he was “exalted to the Father’s right-hand side and given the name -the name of Yahweh- that is above every name. So then, Jesus carried the name of God. That is why we read in Isaiah 9:6 about Jesus “He shall be called the Mighty God, the Everlasting Father…�?all these other titles of God. That name was called upon him and so that is why he could receive worship.
Jesus then carried the name of God and therefore he could receive worship on behalf of God. The fact that he receives worship doesn’t imply either co-equality or co-eternity with the Father. You may like to notice in Hebrews 1: 5 & 6, God says to Jesus “Let all the angels of God worship him�? So then God commanded the angels to worship Jesus. So therefore the worship that Jesus had, in this case by the angels, was commanded, was directed by God.
Then consider John 5:22 & 23. “The Father hath committed all judgment unto the Son that (in order that) all men should honour the Son even as they honour the Father�? So because the Father committed all judgment to the Son , therefore all men can honour the Son even as they honour the Father. Philippians 2:11 we read that because God gave Jesus “the name above every name�? the name of Yahweh, that was in order that Jesus should be worshipped by every tongue to the glory of God the Father. So the worship that Jesus was to be given was to the glory of God the Father, and that surely is a fundamental point that all things are to the glory of Almighty God who knows no equal.
So- you can bare the Name of God without being God. We are baptized into that Name- but we're not God. The Angel bore the name of God- but was not God Himself.
Sorry to take so long to have gotten to this point!
God bless you
Duncan |
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Ayah Asher Ayah = I will be what I will to be !
Duncan, by whose will do you exist ?
PEACE !!!
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Hi, not sure I get your point here? God bless Duncan |
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| | | From: joie | Sent: 4/19/2004 3:51 AM |
Hello Duncan, That is a good explaination and thank you for doing so. I also wish to thank you for posting your pictures. I have enjoyed looking at them. And thank you for your labour here. Keep up the good work. So few truly understand the truth of God and His Son, Jesus. You know that the Word says only the Father knows the hour when Jesus will return to this earth, not even the Son knows of that time. How do they reconcile that? Also in Phil. where it says, Who being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God..... Jesus was not in the form of God UNTIL he asscended to heaven after his resurrection. He was not trying to be equal with God, God set him on this equal grounds. Equality is the true meaning of being ONE. This is what has thrown the Jesus-only folks for a loop. They think Jesus was in the form of God BEFORE he came to earth. That is not what is meant there in Phil. It is merely stateing that after Jesus asscended to heaven and was seated on the throne of God with God, then he was in the form of God and THEN it goes BACK to his time on earth. It is not written in some conological order. Jesus did not seek this place for himself, so it was not 'robbery'. God placed Jesus there at his own right hand, of power. It was a gift to Jesus for his obedient life. Jo |
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