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| | From:  Sobeit33 (Original Message) | Sent: 2/26/2004 4:22 AM |
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John 8: 24. I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
25. Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning. WHO ARE THOU? Now that is a question many people are asking and most are mixed up about. Who is Jesus? John 8: 28. Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.
29. And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.
Jesus said WHEN YE HAVE LIFTED UP THE SON OF MAN, then shall YOU KNOW THAT I AM HE. Then shall you know that I AM THE SON OF MAN. That is who the man Jesus was, the SON OF MAN. He was Not God. He did not ever tell them he was God. You cannot find that. You are accusing Jesus of the same sin Adam did in the beginning ------- == lifting himself up as GOD. Jesus never at any time said He was God. Jesus said I do nothing of myself. v 28. Did you ever read that? He said when you lift up the Son of Man then shall you know that I am he. He who? the son of man. Now that is what Jesus said he was, you can't find one place where Jesus ever said I am God! Show if it you think it is written. It is NOT. This is very serious people! Do you realize that this is saying that if you believe ANYTHING OTHER THAN THAT JESUS WAS THE SON OF MAN, THAT YOU SHALL DIE IN YOUR SINS. Then it is true, just as I thought. To believe any other doctrine other than this, that Jesus was a human man here on earth, will cause you to die lost. If you say He was God, then you will die in your sins. Jesus himself said this, not me. He did not say you must believe I am God. He said you must believe that I am the SON OF MAN. If he said believe I am God, I want one person to write that verse here for me. | | |
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| | | From: joie | Sent: 7/5/2005 9:39 PM |
| From: joie | Sent: 10/10/2004 5:31 PM | | I ask all you Jesus-onlies, and you trinities, I ask any of you........ To give me one verse [now don't go quoting verses which DO NOT SAY THIS, BUT WHICH YOUR LACK OF UNDERSTANDING CAUSES YOU TO THINK THIS] BUT GIVE ME ONE VERSE IN WHICH JESUS SAID, I AM GOD. Now let me ask you all a serious question....... Do you believe that Jesus taught us the truth? Did he teach us what we are supposed to believe? If so, please show me one verse in which Jesus said, I AM GOD. I AM GOD IN FLESH. I AM THE WORD IN FLESH. Please quote me that verse. Now did Paul and Peter teach us truth? Can we believe they taught us what we are supposed to believe? If so ---PLEASE---GIVE ME ONE VERSE IN WHICH EITHER PAUL OR PETER SAID, ---JESUS---IS----GOD. Where is that taught? Where is one single confession quoted in the Word where one person said, I BELIEVE THAT JESUS IS GOD? Know what? None of you can find such a verse for it is NOT TAUGHT IN GOD'S WORD. Now I ask you another serious question------ if these men did not teach this,-----WHY --DO---YOU? | |
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| | | From: joie | Sent: 7/5/2005 9:41 PM |
This is a result of self-taught, self-aggrandising, living room preachers, equating imagination to revelation.( apostolicminister)
Mt 16:16 -And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. Mr 1:1 - The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God; Lu 1:35 -And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God. Joh 1:34 -And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God. Ac 8:37 - And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. 2Co 1:19 -For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you by us, even by me and Silvanus and Timotheus, was not yea and nay, but in him was yea. Well I guess from these scriptures apostolicminister you are calling Matthew... Peter... Mark... Luke... John.... Phillip.... Paul... Silvanus.... Timotheus..... self-taught, self-aggrandising, living room preachers, equating imagination to revelation because they are teaching the same thing that we are teaching. You are calling these great men of God a lie.... they never said that Jesus was God... Why are you so against the truth? Is it because of your salary and against what you are told to preach by your ,,,,,Organization ? | |
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| | | From: joie | Sent: 7/5/2005 9:46 PM |
Just some thoughts on Jesus as Son of God, and your claim that this makes Him God Himself.
Remember how the angel came to Mary and said to her “Thou shalt conceive in thy womb and bring forth a son, and shall call his name Jesus. He shall be great, (notice the future tense again ) and shall be called the Son of the Highest, and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David�? “He shall be called the Son of the Highest.�?It doesn’t say “he is called�? no, “He shall be called the Son of the Highest�? Notice the “Son�?of “the Highest�? Now if God is “the Highest�? if words mean anything at all, how can Jesus be co-equal and co-eternal with God, if God is “the Highest�?and Jesus Christ is “the Son�?of the Highest. Now please see whether Leslie answers that point.
So then, we go on. How was this to be brought about? How was Jesus to become the Son of God? Well, the Holy Spirit came upon Mary, and the Holy Spirit is defined there in Luke 1 as the “power of the Highest�? The Holy Spirit therefore is not a person; it is the power of “the Highest�?who is God himself.
Matthew 1:18 puts it this way “Mary was found with child of the Holy Spirit�? If Mary was found with child of the Holy Spirit, and if the doctrine of the Trinity is true and we have God the Holy Spirit, then the Holy Spirit is the father of Jesus, for she was “found with child of the Holy Spirit�? So the doctrine of the Trinity surely introduces into the simple teaching of God’s Word, contradiction and confusion.
So Jesus was the son of David through Mary and he was Son of God because he was begotten of God by the power of the Holy Spirit. Now I want to bring to your mind a very well known passage, John 3: 16 �?and this is typical of where people read a passage, hear it preached from, preached about and yet they don’t actually stop to think what it really implies. Now we are all like that. So let’s think about that verse again. “God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life�? Now if Jesus was begotten, he had a beginning; and if he had a beginning, and he was begotten by God, he could not be co-eternal with the Father, neither could he be God, for God, we are told, has no beginning. In Galatians 4:4 we are told Christ was “made seed of a woman�? Romans 1:3 says Christ was “made of the seed of David and declared to be the Son of God with power by the resurrection from the dead�?
Now we can take it a stage further. We read in Hebrews 1:5 “unto which of the angels said he (God) at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee�? So according to the Scriptures, the Son of God was begotten at a definite point in time. “Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee�? So Jesus was not eternally begotten as the Trinity maintains. A being cannot be eternal and be begotten. So I submit that since Jesus came into existence and was born, begotten of the Father at a definite point in time, he cannot be the second person of the Trinity.
So we go on in Christ’s life. Luke 2:52 “Christ increased in wisdom and in favour with God and man�? The word “favour�?there means “acceptability, giving of pleasure�? Christ increased in acceptability, in giving of pleasure to his God. So we come to the baptism of Jesus. Jesus said he was baptized because “thus is becometh us to fulfil all righteousness�?
That's all for now, God bless
Duncan
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| | | From: joie | Sent: 7/5/2005 9:48 PM |
| From: Isaiah | Sent: 4/20/2004 11:15 PM | | John 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me. ( Jesus is speaking here and he said he could do nothing in his own self but he came to do the will of his Father that sent him.
31 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true. ( Jesus is saying in this scripture that if he is bearing witness of himself don’t believe him because it’s not true. ) 32 There is another that beareth witness of me; and I know that the witness which he witnesseth of me is true.
33 Ye sent unto John, and he bare witness unto the truth.
34 But I receive not testimony from man: but these things I say, that ye might be saved.
35 He was a burning and a shining light: and ye were willing for a season to rejoice in his light.
36 But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.( Did Jesus send himself? No he said that his Father sent him. ( What Jesus is saying here is in John was sent to bear witness onto the truth, but that was testimony from man, but he said I have a greater witness than John’s witness. He said that the works bear witness of me, but let’s look to vs. 37 where he said I have a I have a greater witness that these.
37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape. John 8:14 Jesus answered and said unto them, Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true: for I know whence I came, and whither I go; but ye cannot tell whence I come, and whither I go.
15 Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man.
16 And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me.
17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.
18 I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me. That sounds to me like two different beings. | |
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| | | From: joie | Sent: 7/5/2005 9:51 PM |
| From: Isaiah | Sent: 4/21/2004 10:10 AM | | As far as I can follow you here, you're saying that "Son of God" is God Himself? Sorry to sound simple, but how can a Father be the same as His Son? The very idea of Jesus as the Son of God surely implies they are not one and the same?
Love in Him
duncan
Thanks Duncan for helping teach the truth about this important message on ' Son of God' - It is as you said this is so simple to see and they are missing the simplicity of the 'Word' about this important subject. Also I would like to thank you for the pictures that you have put in the albums. Now a question for apostolicminister- Where did you get this from? I can not find it in the written word. So it must have come from man. Quote apostolicminister- Man could not see the invisible God, so God made an exact likeness of Himself in flesh, impressed His very nature in flesh, came Himself in flesh, so that man could see and know Him.(end of quote) Now this is not to found in the word, how can you as a minister quote what is not said in the 'Word"? We are not to add to the word or take away. The word of God says that God is a Spirit and that no one has seen God at any time. Jesus said he was flesh and bone. How can flesh and bone be a Spirit? Jesus was born of woman? How could the Almighty God be born of woman? Jesus died. How could the Almighty God die? Jesus suffered and went into hell with all the sins of the world? God did not suffer and die and go into hell. God was and still is the Father of Jesus. God did not Father himself. God is a many-membered KINGDOM. God is not just 1 being. Learn. One means in unity; It would not be possible if He were only - 1 - . How can - 1 - be in a unity or oneness with only 1? John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I. ( see he said he went unto the Father which was greater than himself. John10:30 I and my Father are one. . . ( Jesus was not stating that him and his Father was one here as the Trinitarians say and as the ONENESS people say. He referred to the unity such as was on the day of Pentecost where they were in one mind and one accord. Jesus prayed that this same unity would become a reality among his followers. John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. (see the plural word we there. If Jesus was God so are we because he said let them be one as we are one.) Jesus lived as God's servant. He yielded perfect obedience to His Father. He always did those things that pleased God. This showed that Jesus recognized God as greater than he. | | |
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Here is a good scripture about the Son of God. Mark1:9 And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized of John in Jordan. 10 And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the spirit like a dove descending upon him: 11 And there came a voice from heaven saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. |
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| Here is a good scripture about the Son of God. Mark1:9 And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized of John in Jordan. 10 And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the spirit like a dove descending upon him: 11 And there came a voice from heaven saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
Yea, Wanna those were good scriptures. But here is one that I really like. John 8:17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true. 18 I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me. Now here Jesus said that he is one and the Father is one. 1+1= 2 the true witness. How can anyone not see this? In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established. Is not this the true witness? The required witness. Jesus was one and God was the second. | |
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| | | From: joie | Sent: 7/7/2005 5:00 AM |
Wanna, it is so good to hear from you again! I truly hope you can find more time to visit and help us out here again. I truly miss you and Rebecca helping manage this great group of Build on the True Foundation, which we three started together for the glory of God. and Yes, Larry, that is a great truth which almost everyone is blinded to. I do so much appreciate each of you--- Matthew, Eric, Wanna, and Larry, for coming in and discussing this great and most important subject of just who Christ is. Love to each of you,,,,,,,,,,, and may the Eternal God give enlightenment to us all. Jo |
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| | | From: joie | Sent: 7/7/2005 5:03 AM |
Eric, here is the Scripture where the angel named him Jesus: | Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost. | | Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a public example, was minded to put her away privily. | | But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost. | | And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins. | |
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| | | From: joie | Sent: 7/7/2005 5:20 AM |
| Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. | | Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife: | And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.
| Look at verse 23 . read it ---vocus on every word.......when this virgin brought forth a son, THEY [many] called this son EMMANUEL = God with us. BUT......... WATCH VERSE 25.....>>>>> WHEN SHE, Mary, brought forth HER son, HE {Joseph; one person} called his name JESUS,........as the angel had told her to do. See then that the virgin's son was the Emmanuel.......not Mary's son. That virgin was JESUS. His 'son', the son of God, [from the Word of God inside Jesus] was the Emmanuel. If the prophecy for Emmanuel is to Mary and Joseph, WHY DID NOT THEY CALL HIM EMMANEUL? WHY DID THE ANGEL TELL THEM TO CALL HIM JESUS? Now, anyone who truly wishes TRUTH........do this test of the Word:
| So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations. |
Go back to the first of this chapter and make a list on paper.......1 - 14. Write down the first 14 names in the geneology list above. Then write down, 1 - 14 again. List the next 14 men named. Then write down, 1 - 14 again. List the next 14 named. Guess what? Joseph is # 12 ---being # 40. Jesus is # 13 -----being # 41. But look back again......it said all the generations to Christ is 42 generations. anyone who can count and think will see here that Jesus is NOT CHRIST. Jesus is generation 41---- Christ is generation 42..........Don't get mad at me.......this is God's Word. Christ is the resurrected Son of God and all of us into one Body. We are part of generation 42. Christ is the first Son of this generation. Jesus is the last of the Adam Generation. He is the FIRST AND HE IS THE LAST. Jo |
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Joie, the Messiah was born of Hebrews, in the Jewish of language there is no letter J, until this day. Everybody knows that Jesus is spelled with a letter J. Did you know that until the middle ages that there was no letter J in any language ?
This should give all truth seekers pause.
Peace __________________________________________________
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| | | From: joie | Sent: 7/9/2005 4:51 AM |
Eric, it has not one thing to do with it. All truth seekers should go by what is written in the KJV. What Jesus was in flesh has no bearing on anything. He dropped all of that, took it into hell, and was resurrected into Holy, Glorified flesh. It is NOT JEWISH. I am telling you, that thing of a missing letter J is a lie, made up by false teachers who actually worship anything they think is 'jewish'. It is true that the Jewish is the anti-Christ. They were an abomination to God. They were the murders of Jesus. They hated Jesus. They loved idols. They displeased God at all times. Only a few of them ever lived a Holy life and found grace or life. God cut that entire nation of old Jews off, for they are not his true People. ONly the poeple of faith, christians, are his true people. No, JESUS is my Saviour and He is my God. HIS PRECIOUS NAME IS JESUS. May you come into truth and free yourself from this damning delusion. Get rid of thinking the jews are anything special. It is a lie of hell. Joie |
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Jo, who said the jews are special ? I just know that
the truth will set you free, not manfactured opinions. Did you know that in this age of Grace, there is no Jew or Gentile ? Did you know that with the death, burial and resurection of Yahshusa The Messiah, that man returned to just the human race. So call jews, christians etc. are the only ones on earth that are trying to get into the Kingdom with flesh and blood. This is very sad, cause it is written that flesh and blood cannot enter the Kingdom. You say that truth seekers should go by what is written in the KJV, well most people do not understand the written or spiritual word, that is why they need a teacher. They need a true teacher to teach them where their teacher is !
Another thing Jo, hell is not in a geographial place.
Bet you did not know that, right ? Relax beautiful we can all learn, that is why we are given each new day.
PEACE
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| | | From: joie | Sent: 7/9/2005 5:06 PM |
Eric, I never said that hell is a geographical place. And yes I know that people do not understand the Word, but it is only because they do not take the time to study and search the Scriptures as Jesus told us to do. Most people do not read the Word enough to know even the simplest things. They merely go by what some preacher or 'teacher' tells them. and those teachers only go by what they have been told by handed-down junk doctrines. Yet they hear the lies quoted so much, that they all assume the lies are the truth, and when a true teacher proves by the true Written word that the lie is not taught in the Word, they accuse the true teacher of being the one telling lies, because the truth sounds so strange to their ears. I know the kingdom is Spiritual and the Word is spiritual, but it has a true understanding which is the SPIRITUAL FLESH God manifested himself in, so we COULD finally understand truth and be in His Holy Kingdom. Jo |
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