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~ Did They Know? ~

Today is Tuesday, 7/5/05. I have not studied for this message, and may not put much in it, but just now, God opened something up to me. So I will try to write down a few thoughts before I forget it.

Many of the Jesus-only people rely on a false belief that the Jews knew the truth. And upon this false conception, they use the Jew’s words to try and prop up their false doctrine of Jesus being God. They use this:

John 10:30 I and my Father are one.

Joh 10:31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. 10:32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I showed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?

Joh 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

Joh 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

Joh 10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

Joh 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

See that in verse 33, the Jews accused Jesus of making himself God. But is this the truth? Did Jesus agree with them? Did He say he was God? Of course not. He said again, in verse 36, I am the Son of God. Never at any time did Jesus ever say that he was God. Only Satan claims to be God.

Now, did the Jews know the truth? Did they truly know and love God? Of course not. All Scripture teaches that they loved darkness rather than light. All Scripture teaches that they loved idols instead of the true God. Did Jesus say they knew the truth? Let’s just examine the Word and find out.

John 5:15 The man departed, and told the Jews that it was Jesus, which had made him whole.

Joh 5:16 And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day.

Joh 5:17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.

Joh 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

Now the above is another Scripture these people misuse and think that the Jews are the ones to listen to about doctrine. These Jews had tried to KILL Jesus because they said he broke the Sabbath. Now do you agree with their belief that Jesus broke the Sabbath? Do you think they were righteous that they wanted to KILL Jesus for this healing on the Sabbath? [Sabbath is not my subject in this message, but I need to point this out here: see how ‘Sabbath keepers�?become warped? They are willing to commit murder, contrary to the law, because of their vehemence over the Sabbath.]

The same people will look over verse16 and jump to verse 18 for ‘proof�?that Jesus made himself equal with God. Now think this over. If Jesus were God, as they claim, and the only one as they claim, and these Jews know the truth, and we are to use their words for doctrine, then how is it that Jesus was making himself EQUAL WITH God? If he is God, how is it he is making himself equal with himself? Is this sensible?

John 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

Now read that. Jesus said I seek NOT mine own will. Is He telling us the truth? He said I seek NOT my own will, but the will of the Father which sent me. So this clearly says that Jesus is NOT the Father who sent him.

John 5:45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.

Joh 5:46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.

Joh 5:47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

Now here Jesus told those Jews, the ones who accused him of making himself equal with God, the same ones who accused him of making himself God, that they had not believed Moses. So, if they did not believe Moses, as they claimed, how could they have known truth? Did Jesus verify right here that we are to put confidence in what these Jews accused him of? No, he said right the opposite. He said they did NOT know truth. He also said, in verse 47, that unless you believe the writings of Moses, you cannot believe Jesus�?words. It is all the Word of God.

So from this, we find that Moses wrote truth about Jesus. So did Moses tell us Jesus would be God? If so, please show me where Moses said God will raise up God unto you. What did Moses tell them?

Ac 3:22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.

Ac 7:37 This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear.

Now that is the two witnesses of this. Peter and Stephen both said that Moses called Jesus a prophet like unto himself. They also stated that Moses said this prophet would be of their brethren. So, are their brethren God? Now was Moses God and man? Did Moses have a dual nature? Do you believe Peter? Do you believe Moses? Or do you believe the liars of today? Was Jesus like unto Moses or was He God? Was Moses God? Did Moses have a nature of God on the inside and man on the outside? If not, then how was Jesus like unto Moses?

Ac 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye. Ac 7:52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which showed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:

Now this shows that those Jews resisted the Holy Ghost and killed all their prophets. So I ask you, did they know truth? Why do you believe their words?

Joh 5:42 But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you.

Joh 5:44 How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?

Now here Jesus bore witness that those Jews did not have the love of God in them. He said they could not believe. Who do you believe?

These same Jews said to Pilate, John 19:7 The Jews answered him, We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God.

Now here they claim that Jesus made himself the Son of God. Why have they changed their word? See before they claimed that Jesus made himself God and equal with God. Now they are saying what Jesus did say, I am the Son of God. They said that by their law Jesus ought to die for this. What law? Did they know truth? If so, why are they desiring to kill the Son of God? See, they did not believe that Jesus was the Son of God. So this proves that they did not know the truth. They made up false accusations against Him.

John 19:15 But they cried out, Away with him, away with him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Shall I crucify your King? The chief priests answered, We have no king but Caesar.

Here they deny Jesus as their King. So did they know truth? Or course not.

John 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Jesus came to the Jews and they did not receive him, for they did not believe him or know truth.

Did these Jews know the Father? Let Jesus answer this.

John 8:17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.

Joh 8:18 I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.

Joh 8:19 Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.

Now here Jesus plainly told these Jews, whom you believe, that they did not know the Father nor Him. He also told them that His Father and himself make up the required TWO witnesses of himself. He said I am one that bear witness of myself and the Father is the other witness. Now do you think Jesus taught us truth? If so, how can you claim that he and his Father are one and the same ‘person�? Is that what Jesus is saying here? Of course not.

Now you who wish to believe the Jews had the truth of what Jesus claimed, do you believe this:

John 8:48 Then answered the Jews, and said unto him, Say we not well that thou art a Samaritan, and hast a devil?

Now see that the same Jews which said Jesus made himself equal with God, also said that he was a Samaritan and had a devil. Now do you also believe this? If not, why are you taking the other statements of these Jews as doctrinal truth? Examine yourself and see if you be in the true faith.

Joh 8:52 Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death.

Now here they dispute with Jesus when He denied having a devil. Here these Jews, which you dote so much on, said, Now we know that you have a devil. Do you believe them?

Joh 8:55 Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.

Here Jesus said that these Jews have not known his Father. He also called them LIARS. So, you are partly basing your belief that Jesus was God on these liars�?words.

John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. John 8:59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

Now the Jesus-only folks use this to say that Jesus was claiming to be God because he said, I am. That is exactly what these Jews thought he was saying also. It caused these ‘righteous�?folks to pick up stones with which to murder Jesus! Will you also stone him?

Now could these carnal minded folks truly be interpreting Jesus�?word correctly?

Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Ro 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

1Cor 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Now this shows that one must be spiritual in order to receive or understand the things of the Spirit of God. So were those Jews natural, carnal minded? Sure they were. They could never understand the things Jesus told them. They misinterpreted every thing He said, as most people still do today. Yet you accept their words that Jesus was claiming to be God because he said I am. The very fact that these murdering, carnal-minded Jews believed this is what Jesus meant, proves to me, that it is NOT what Jesus meant. It was the Word of God speaking inside Jesus. But carnal, natural people cannot discern this.

If you think Jesus claimed to Be God, then this will cross the rest of the Scripture. It cannot be true. When Jesus told them you must EAT my flesh and DRINK my blood to have life in you, they misunderstood this also. They thought he meant they had to take a bite of his arm, leg, or other body part and get some of his blood out and drink it. Now that is what it sounded like to the carnal mind. This ‘mind�?is the mind which said Jesus is saying he is God or Jesus is saying he is equal with God. But did Peter, Paul, John, Philip, or any other person in the Word of God ever say Jesus is God? No, not one of them ever confessed, I believe Jesus is God. It is just not in the Book.

Every verse which people claim is saying that Jesus is God is only because carnal minded people have misinterpreted it and distorted the real truth of what is being said. They do this by adding to the word, taking away from the Word and changing it. The carnal mind can never receive the real truth. They will believe a lie every time. Not one verse says that God ever incarnated himself into human flesh, yet every church teaches this lie. Both the trinity people and the Jesus only people teach this same lie. So how can it be true? No Apostle said this. Indeed the word ‘incarnate�?is not even mentioned in the Word of God. Yet people think nothing of claiming this lie.

It is true that we worship Jesus, but only because God told us to worship His Son. Jesus gave his life for us, so he is our God. He is our God, His name is called our God, His name is called our Father, but only because His Father, God, said for everyone to worship His Son. Jesus is our Father because He beget us to God. He travailed to give us spiritual birth. Thus He is both our spiritual Mother and our Father. Now let the carnal mind tangle with that one!

By: Jo Smith

Jo if the Messiah is not our Creator in the flesh, and you do not accept the scriptures that support

that He is, then please tell who is He ? Whom else

could do what He has other than He ?

Eric, I never saw your post till just now. No, Jesus was not the creator in flesh. NO Scripture says such a thing. It is a made-up myth.

Nicodemus had the truth. He said no man can do the things you do EXCEPT GOD BE WITH HIM. Now he did not say except you be God......he said except God be WITH YOU.

Now that is how Jesus did all his things...by faith in God. God was with him.

How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

I know that the Word does not teach any trinity. It also does not teach that Jesus was God in flesh. This teaching does not fit Scripture. No Apostle ever said that Jesus is God. They did not believe this. Jesus did not believe this. Jesus did not ever teach this.

Only as men tried to interpret the Word apart from proof in the Written Scriptures did this false doctrine come up. Neither teaching fits the Word of God.

The Word does not call the Father an 'office' or a title. This is man made doctrine, trying to figure out the Word apart from the Written Word. If the Word does not expressly state a thing, then the interpretation is wrong.

Jesus was the MAN made into the likeness and glory of God, his Father. This happened at his resurrection. To try to say that the only reason Jesus overcame sin in the flesh, is because he was really God, is to totally deny his real glory and power. It denies his real purpose, to show us the way to live Godly in the human flesh.

Sure God was in him. God is in those who truly have the Holy Ghost. But the seed of God did NOT mix, physically with the egg of Mary and produce the baby, Jesus, as most people believe.

No, that is not what happened.

Mary was not carrying God in her womb. These things only happen in the Spirit. We do carry the Christ Child in our spiritual womb, by the spiritual seed of God coming into us.

God only caused Mary to conceive by his power. He did not mix the God seed with the physical seed and produce a mixture of God and man. This is error and denies the real glory of Jesus that as fully human he overcame sin and obeyed His God and His Father in everything.

Misunderstanding the word ONE is the whole problem. Read this, the written Scripture:

<NOBR>Ro 12:4</NOBR>	For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office:
<NOBR>Ro 12:5</NOBR>	So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.

<NOBR>1co 12:12</NOBR>	For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
<NOBR>1co 12:13</NOBR>	For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
<NOBR>1co 12:14</NOBR>	For the body is not one member, but many.
<NOBR>1co 12:15</NOBR>	If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
<NOBR>1co 12:16</NOBR>	And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
<NOBR>1co 12:17</NOBR>	If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling?
<NOBR>1co 12:18</NOBR>	But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.
<NOBR>1co 12:19</NOBR>	And if they were all one member, where were the body?
<NOBR>1co 12:20</NOBR>	But now are they many members, yet but one body.
<NOBR>1co 12:21</NOBR>	And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.
<NOBR>1co 12:22</NOBR>	Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary:
<NOBR>1co 12:23</NOBR>	And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness.
<NOBR>1co 12:24</NOBR>	For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked:
<NOBR>1co 12:25</NOBR>	That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another.
<NOBR>1co 12:26</NOBR>	And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.
<NOBR>1co 12:27</NOBR>	Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.

<NOBR>Ga 3:27</NOBR>	For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
<NOBR>Ga 3:28</NOBR>	There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

<NOBR>2co 4:3</NOBR>	But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
<NOBR>2co 4:4</NOBR>	In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Now these Scriptures prove together that Christ is the IMAGE of God. See then that CHRIST is ONE BODY, made up of many MEMBERS, and these many MEMBERS are all ONE.

ONE AS GOD AND JESUS ARE ONE. AS HUSBAND AND WIFE ARE ONE. it does not mean there is just 1 being among this Christ or this God. This teaching causes a schism in his body. The kingdom of God is this same way or we could not be in his image.

To say that because God is ONE , denies the Father / Son relationship of two different beings is antichrist.

God is ONE in the very same way Christ is ONE, BUT MANY MEMBERS.

This Jesus-only doctrine totally ignores these Scriptures as to being able to explain them. Your doctrine must fit all Scripture to be the right interpretation.

Jesus never claimed to be God. If you think he did, please give me the verse saying so.

If you think Peter called Jesus God, show that to me. If Paul preached that Jesus is God , show that to me. Don't twist in men's interpretations. Read Written Scripture.

The Son is a MAN. He is not God. God, his Father, set Jesus upon God's own throne in heaven and said Let everyone now worship my Son as God. Jesus was Not God. He was GIVEN THIS POWER AND AUTHORITY.

All power in heaven and earth is GIVEN TO ME, said Jesus. Who gave it to him?

John 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God. (See Jesus had not said that Jesus was God. He said God was his Father. It is a spiritual Father, not a natural Father. God did not naturally have a relationship with Mary and produce a child which had the physical DNA of God. There is NO SUCH THING. I have seen such foolish stuff passed around as doctine. If the Word of God does not say a think, it is a lie.)

Now you think that these Jews knew the truth of what Jesus was saying here. But no, they had misinterpreted all that Jesus said.

Watch this:

John 6:42 And they said, Is not this Jesus, the SON OF JOSEPH, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?

See, if you are going to use their words, then you need these also. These same Jews said that Jesus is the Son of Joseph. Do you believe that? It is the testimony of the very same people. Did they Know?

John 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

The Son can do NOTHING of HIMSELF. True or not true? ( this is Jesus�?words, not mine.)

John 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

Jesus said the Father has GIVEN to the Son to have life in himself. Believe it or not? If Jesus were the Father, how is it that he had to give himself to have life in himself? Is that sensible or what? Did Jesus talk double-talk? Or maybe he just did not understand language? Is that what some of you think?

John 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

See, here is something else God the Father GAVE TO the Son. If the Son is God, why did God have to give this authority to him? Judge righteous judgment. Go by the Written Scripture.

John 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me. 5:31 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.

5:32 There is another that beareth witness of me; and I know that the witness which he witnesseth of me is true.

Now, Jesus is saying some strange stuff here. He said If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true? What do you all think of that? What is he referring to here?

The LAW of God that in the mouth of two or more witnesses every word shall be established. So Jesus could not be witnessing of himself, if he is all alone. It could not stand, according to the law of God. But watch how Jesus gets out of this:

There is ANOTHER (not myself, ANOTHER) that bears witness of me. So who was this someone else?

John 5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

Now that is some powerful Scripture. The Father HIMSELF, (so the Father has a self of himself) bore witness of Jesus. Then Jesus (still Jesus speaking here, you know) said, you have not heard his voice at ANY TIME, NOR SEEN HIS SHAPE AT ANY TIME!

UH OH! That puts a clinch in this, doesn’t it? They had never seen the shape of Jesus�?Father and they had not heard his voice at ANY TIME.

So who is this man talking to them? Whom they both see and hear? Judge righteous judgment. Am I with the scripture or out of it?

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