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From: joie (Original Message)

Sent: 3/27/2005 9:21 PM

All One

1Cor. 1: 9. God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.
10. Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
11. For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you.
12. Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
13. Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

14. I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
15. Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.
16. And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.
17. For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

18. For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
19. For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.

Verse 9--God called us to the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.

Now did this say to the fellowship of himself? Why not? No, it said of his Son. It never at any time does away with this fact that Jesus is the Son of God. It does not declare that Jesus is God.

V10-- (very important)...I beseech you that ye all ---- (what? yes. ALL)--- speak the SAME THING. And that there be NO DIVISIONS among you.... But be perfectly joined in the same mind and same judgment.

Now, take a long, slow look at that ---- He wants us ALL to speak the same thing.... To have NO DIVISIONS... to be perfectly joined together in the same mind... WHY?

Because we are Christ's Kingdom; and Christ's Kingdom is the IMAGE OF THE KINGDOM OF GOD.

So how can just 1 being be ALL PERFECTLY UNITED; JOINED.... SPEAKING THE SAME THING...HAVING THE SAME MIND.... BE PERFECTLY JOINED TOGETHER?

V11---- there were contentions among them... so here they had DEPARTED from that image of God. They were bringing disgrace upon that perfect image of Christ, the image of God.

V12- some say I am of Paul - others say I am of Apollo or Cephas or Christ....

Now what were they doing? Why is this so upsetting to Paul? Because they are doing the same thing the witch, the whore churches do.... Divide the kingdom of God. Yes, divide it. Say, there is Jesus only.... No, there are 3....No, there is Mary, or the pope, or bro. So-and-so. Some say there is Santa clause. Etc. But the main thing is Satan has them DIVIDED. Now DIVIDED is opposite of UNITED.

Matters not what false doctrine you come up with -- just depart from that truth, that God is a many-membered kingdom in perfect unity = perfectly JOINED TOGETHER.

Now if God is not a kingdom, PERFECTLY JOINED TOGETHER, WHY DID PAUL SAY THIS IS HOW THE CHURCH IS SUPPOSED TO BE?

V13--Is Christ divided? (Now answer that for yourself - does your doctrine divide Christ?) Do you contend that there is Jesus only? Or God is 3 people? You have divided Christ if you say either one of these.

V19--...I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.

Now who is this? Those 'wise' folks who departed from the simplicity of the Written Word and went and walked in another way. They took up 'scholarly' doctors; they took up commentary after commentary, dictionary after dictionary of the WISE OF THIS WORLD, who denied the truth of God's Word.

But God said I will destroy all that 'wisdom' and bring it to nothing. All of your understanding you get from all those man-made books will fail.

Cpt. 2: 13. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Now the great Apostle Paul said (and he was a very educated man)- but he said he used not men's wisdom to teach with.

1 Corinthians 3

1. And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
2. I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
3. For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

4. For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?
5. Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?
6. I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
7. So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

8. Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.
9. For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.

Here Paul said that if you say I am of one or another, thus dividing them, then you are CARNAL.

V 5 & 6 shows that we have different jobs to do in the body, but we are just ministers by whom ye believed. He did the job of planting. Apollos watered, but it was God who gave the increase. That is all that matters.

V7 shows that we are nothing who do these jobs, only God is.

V8 now this is very important -He that planteth and he that watereth are ONE. GET THAT, THEY BOTH WERE --ONE.

Now is he saying they merged and became 1 and the same man? Of course not.

Then why are carnal minded people saying that Jesus and His Father being one means they merged and became the same person or being?

See how carnal this reasoning is? Hope some of you can really learn from this. Christ is the image of God. We are not to be divided. We are ALL ONE EVEN AS THEY ARE ALL ONE.

I see it clearer everyday. That Jesus-only doctrine is straight out of hell from Satan. (I just hate to capitalize that word)--

They are telling this world that the only reason God can be one (united - loving- unselfish-perfectly joined with others, etc.) is BECAUSE HE IS ONLY 1 PERSON. See? No one else to have to contend with; no one else to have to love as yourself (this is the whole principle of Godliness)--

No one else to have to be perfectly joined in mind with - no one to have to get alone with-- just yourself. Wow! What a nest of evil he hatched up when he thought that one up!

See how shrewd this evil worker is -- first he used the WITCH to start the big lie that God is really manifest in 3 people. (Thus calling the mortal man God) and pulling God down to the level of man.

THEN - after he gets the whole world deceived into believing this lie, he starts one even more insidious, to make more confusion -- he gets a big bunch of folks screaming that Jesus is God and the only person involved in the Godhead.

But though the revealing of the true Holy Ghost and Paul's precious words, God is once again showing the World the real truth - that God is a kingdom of perfectly joined together members; each loving and esteeming the other as their own self. Not one of them lifting themselves up above the other.

Realize that it takes more than -1- person or thing to be joined in unity with others. Just ‘one�?being could not be joined in perfect unity for what would he be joined or united with? See, this cannot be the true answer. God has to be many to be united in harmony. The Church has to be many to united in harmony. We are ALL ONE.

Such pure Beauty.

By: Jo Smith

From: joie

Sent: 5/21/2003 1:35 PM

You are clearly 'hiding' for the truth has you on the 'run'. You are using scrambled up jumbled up words to hide behind.

Come out into the open. Let's take the Word of God one verse at a time. Leave Strongs out of this. You would be lost without that.

You are not teaching the Word of God.

As far as what Peter said at Baptism, I know this; My God gave me His Word in my language. He told me to use the name JESUS. And that is what I do.

Whatever Peter said meant JESUS.

If you were true to Jesus, you would not pick up this stuff which is not in God's Word. If God wanted me to call Jesus Yeshua, he would have told me so.

I don't believe you could raise the dead in that name of Yeshua. I don't believe you could heal the sick or cast out devils in that name. And I dont believe God will wash away sins using that name.

You deny Jesus and use that name if you wish, I will not.

Just because some carnal minded man tell me Yeshua is the name of Jesus does not make me believe him. My safety is staying with THE KJV.

From: joie

Sent: 5/5/2003 5:44 PM

The Dual Nature of Christ

From the Bible we see that Jesus Christ had two distinct natures in a way that no other human being has ever had. One nature is human or fleshly; the other nature is divine or Spirit. Jesus was both fully man and fully God (Apmin.)

I challenge you to give me even one verse of Scripture stating your above lie. You cannot do it. That is not one verse saying that Christ had a dual nature. There is not one verse saying that Jesus was both fully man and fully god.

Give that reference or else admit it is made up lies trying to back up a false doctrine which is totally foreign to the Word and truth of God.

Then how do you explain that Jesus was made in all points LIKE UNTO HIS BRETHERN? He took NOT on him the nature of angels but he took on him the seed of Abraham = total human.

You cannot make anything else of it and be true to the Word of God. How was he made perfect through his sufferings? If he were fully God as you state, there would have been no need for a 'perfecting' of the captain of our salvation.

No. He was fully human doing his miracles same way Peter and Paul did them = by faith in God.

Else, Jesus was not made just like his brethren. If he were both god and man as you say, then he was not like unto us. He was not our perfect PATTERN SON.

His overcoming sin in the flesh would have had no value or merit to condemn sin in the flesh IF HE HAD BEEN GOD IN ANY KIND OF WAY.

No, He overcame sin in the flesh being fully human with all the same desires and temptations as we have. You do away with this and deny the true greatness of Jesus by declaring him to be God.

You are wrong! Your church is wrong. Jesus was not God. He was a human man. God is NOT MORTAL. He never became a mortal man. Romans 1 says that anyone who says God is a mortal man has a reprobate mind.

Better be careful of this lie.

From: joie

Sent: 5/5/2003 5:51 PM

The Son was sent from God as a man, not as God: "God sent forth his Son, made of a woman" (Galatians 4:4). God manifested Himself in flesh in order to achieve a special goal. Hebrews 3:1 calls Jesus the Apostle of our profession, apostle meaning "one sent" in Greek. Briefly stated, the sending of the Son emphasizes the humanity of the Son and the specific purpose for which the Son was born. (aposmin.)

Now read that statement above here - in this you state EXACTLY the same thing I teach. This is the only true statement you have said. See? Even Jesus only preachers cannot teach the Word without declaring the real truth, for it is all through the Word.

YOu said God sent his son, as a man, not as God. That is just what both the Word of God and I teach. Jesus came here as a man; not as God. God his Father was still in Heaven when his Son Jesus was here on earth. He spoke from Heaven at the baptism of Jesus. You cannot make any other sense of it all this.

I listen to Jesus only preachers a lots and they will ALWAYS speak of the Father, of Jesus going back to His Father, of Jesus come from His Father; of the Father bearing witness of His Son, etc.

See they cannot preach the Word without this for it is all through the word.

Yet they will turn around and flat deny what they just said. I hear them do this all the time. They are TOO BLIND TO SEE WHAT THEY SAY THEMSELVES.

They are too deaf to hear their own words.

From: joie

Sent: 5/5/2003 6:01 PM

Acts 2:36
Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both(kai) Lord and Christ.

Oh, that the ONE God robbed Himself in flesh! Now this would explain not only the singleness of the scriptures, but also why there is no mention of the Holy Ghost. 'God the Father' is that Spirit manifested in the body of Jesus who is BOTH Lord and Christ!

"But these things are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing, ye might have life through his name." JOHN 20:31 (aposmin.)

Look up the word BOTH. It means two or more objects. So this is saying Lord and Christ are two different catagories of beings.

One God robbed himself in flesh....... Yes? Well show me that verse? Where did the Word declare this? I will believe you when you quote Scripture telling me this. It is not there!

No mention of the Holy Ghost? I ask you what is this statement suppossed to mean? No mention of the Holy Ghost? The Word of God is full of mention of the Holy Ghost.

Jesus said " if I go not away He will not come. But if I go away I will send him to you to abide with you forever". HUH? Explain this.

NOw read John 20: 31 which you quoted .... it said to believe that Jesus is the Son of God OF God.. it did not say believe that Jesus is God. You cannot find that statement anywhere in the whole Word of God ..... to believe that Jesus is God.

If you think it is there, show us where it is.

Case closed. I do not delete as you state. You cannot make it hard on me on this subject. I can stay with you till the end of the World and never miss a beat. You have not truly interpreted Scripture stating that God is Jesus or that Jesus is God. It is not there. Jesus is our God because God set him there on the throne of God with God. That is the only way.

I ask why did you go away? Because you could not answer the Word when I finally had time to address this with you. Stay and prove your belief. You cannot do it.

From: joie

Sent: 5/6/2003 8:20 PM

Isa 9:6
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace

Hello Apostolicminister,

I am very sorry about your having to have surgery. I pray you are having a speedy recovery. I know you have a life outside this board. I only thought you had left us. I know myself at times I do not have the time to do what is needed here. And that is why I had not gotten into this with you any sooner.

Now about the above Scritpure. See I know how this verse leads the Jesus only people into the false understanding they think they have. I also once saw it this same way. Yes, I once was of that Jesus only belief. But I can honestly tell you and everyone else, that false doctrine CROSSES TOO MANY SCRIPTURES.

The truth will never cross even one verse. That is how you know when God has given you the real truth - it will be in perfect harmony and agreement with EVERY OTHER VERSE; FOR THE WORD OF GOD IS THE WHOLE BOOK. HE DID NOT LIE OR CROSS HIMSELF AT ANY POINT.

If what you believe leaves unanswered question anywhere in the Book, then you do not have it right. I learned this as God himself taught me.

I did start another thread asking you the question, Who was God's servant. I proved to you right there by many Scriptures that Jesus while on earth was God's servant.

The 'child' being spoken of in Isa. 9:6 was the resurrected Christ; not the baby Mary gave birth to. Yes there is a difference. As much difference as what I am now and what I will be when I am resurrected into glorification to see no more death.

See, when the disciples tried again and again to get the earthly man Jesus to set up a kingdom and rule it as king, he refused. See, that GOVERNMENT did not and was not meant to rest upon HIS shoulders. It was to rest upon the shoulders of the resurrected Christ.

If Jesus had set up an earthly kingship with him as king in his mortal body, all of God's creation would have been lost.

Jesus was a mortal man. He died. This is the proof that he was mortal. God is not mortal . God cannot die. It is reprobate to claim that God became a mortal man. This is Romans 1- changing the glory of the uncorruptible God to a mortal man.

The resurrected Christ is the one who was called the mighty God, the everlasting Father, the Prince of peace. See, Read Heb. 1. You will see that this is when Jesus was set to be called our God. Not when he was here in human flesh. Only in that resurrection into the likeness and glory of His Father, God, was he then set to be same as God.

God is not just 1 being. No! This is the total misunderstanding of the whole churchworld. God is a whole kingdom of beings; same as Christ' kingdom is made up of MANY MEMEBERS.

So is Satan --= a whole kingdom of beings. So is the anti-christ. So is the beast. So is the false prophet. None of these are 1 singular being. That is where everyone is missing the real truth. The false prophet is lots of beings, people, all in harmony of being against Christ. To deny the Father AND the Son is anti-christ.

Now the posts are just too long and tiny print makes it very difficult for me to pick up on every little thing you said and comment on it. I am teaching this from the Word of God.

We should not be in competition with each other. learning TRUTH is all that is important.

Glad to see you back.

God bless and heal you.

From: joie

Sent: 5/6/2003 8:37 PM

So this is saying Lord and Christ are two different catagories of beings.

Please take the time to elucidate. Can you explain the dynamics of this in great depth? To be honest, I do not believe that you even understand what you are saying.(apos.M.)

Yes, Lord and Christ are two different catagories. Jesus was the human born to Mary. He is the one made like unto his human brethern. In every way. This alone proves he did not have the dual nature you speak of. If he had been God, then he would not have been like unto his brethern.

Now a human being can be a Lord. That is the one we look to for leadership and he tells us what to do. That is what this word Lord means. He is the one who is over us.

The word when spelled with all caps thus: LORD. is the Father. God. Jesus is never called LORD. He is called Lord. This refers to the Son. Sonship is a kingdom of humans. The Son kingdom is made up of human beings serving God while here in this flesh.

The Father kingdom is made up of spirits. They are the highest form of life. They are greater in might and power than any human. Jesus was completely subject and obedient to that Father kingdom while here on earth. He prayed to God regularly. If he had been God, he would not have needed to pray.

Now CHRIST refers to the resurrected Son in the likeness and glory of God. Jesus was made to be both our Lord and the anointed one, the CHRIST of God. He was made Christ at his resurrection.

He was in the likeness of sinful man on earth. Read Romans 8: 3. God sent his Son here in the likeness of SINFUL MAN.

But he resurrected him into the likeness of God, making him one with the God kingdom. That is how he is Christ.

We are members of the Christ kingdom = the anointed ones.

From: joie

Sent: 5/6/2003 8:59 PM

You are picking on me for not answering everything you have said. I cannot even find it all. But you are missing the main thing which would resolve this in your mind. Answer the things I asked you.

Give me Scripture saying Jesus had a dual nature. Give me a Scripture saying Jesus was God.

Don't give me Scripture showing what Jesus did by faith in God.

You have not addressed this: GOD WAS IN CHRIST.

That is what makes it look to you as if Jesus were doing his miracles as being God; Nope, he did it by pure faith just as Peter did. Peter raised the dead same as Jesus did. Peter walked on water some. Does all of this make Peter be God? course not.

God is in us. Does this make us God?

How do you explain that Jesus is a joint-heir of God with us? Heir of God?

You are far too intelligent a person not to know what that word JOINT-HEIR means.

Remember when Jesus raised up Lazarus, he said Father I know that you hear me always; He prayed for the sake of those who heard it. He wanted them to know the Father was the one doing this 'raising' of the dead. Jesus did it by his faith, = I know that you always HEAR me.

Who was he speaking of and to? See, that Jesus only doctrine cannot answer any of the thousands of questions of this nature.

God was manifest in the flesh = Jesus showed what God is by the miracles he did. He did it by the Father working in him. By seeing the miracles Jesus did he manifest to the world the things of God; thus manifesting God to them in his human flesh. We are suppossed to do the same thing.

Paul did it. Paul manifest God in his flesh. God was in Christ as he ascended up to Heaven. The Apostles preached God to the Gentiles. So see, that Scripture does not say that the earthly man Jesus was God here robbed in flesh.

The Word does not say God came here robbed himself in flesh ANYWHERE. It is not true to the word.

From: joie

Sent: 5/7/2003 10:19 PM

Apostolicminister,

Do you believe in the KJV? If so why are you doing as so many 'want to be jews" doing and denying the name of Jesus?

Why are you in one place denying the name Jesus and then in another place proclaiming this same name as the only name we can be saved by? Which do you believe?

Do you believe this modern day 'hollogabloue" that Jesus is not a valid name and move it to Yashour or something like that?

Jesus is my Saviour. I do not know this other one you speak of. I have battled this same stuff with so many 7th day adventist, it is not even funny.

Why are you saying the same thing they all say?

I tell you that you will NEVER understand all those Scriptures as long as you think of God as the earthly man Jesus and deny the true God.

As long as you think they are one and same being, it is impossible to see the truth of God's Word.

Every revelation in the whole Book is dependant upon that revelation which God the Father gave to Peter, Thou are the Chirst, the SON OF THE LIVING GOD.

Not one word is said here of Jesus being that LIVING GOD. It is not the true revelation. Notice that Jesus confirmed what Peter said.

What you are doing, copying and pasting all those long things in another language, is not doing one bit of good.

Can you, and will you be willing for you and me to just take the KJV Word of God and start a new thread and go just one point at a time and study this out together. This way is doing no good.

You are throwing too much together at a time and all it does is cloud the issue.

I care not one thing for all that stuff of some old suppossed to be ancient jewish names. I go by the KJV and that is ALL I GO BY.

Anything else is confusion and darkness. The truth is fully and completely taught clearly in the KJV.

Everyone I have ever run into who goes to other versions and ancient jewish manuels end up in total confusion and darkness.

I wish to start a new thread and just do one point at a time. You show me one thing or ask me one Scripture question and let me do the same for you. You answer all I ask you with KJV Scripture and I will do the same for all you say to me.

Unless you do it this way, you will never see any truth or receive any light.

Everything you say or ask is easily answered with the KJV; but I cannot do it with mile long copied stuff to try to sift through.

I hope you will be willing to do this. It is the only way any truth can come forth. If you are willing to do it this way, and don't try to judge what I am saying until you let me show you Scripture proof, then I can show you everything I have said right out of God's Word and prove it to you.

Leave Strong's out of this. Leave all those other copied things out of this. Can you go straight to the Word of God (the KJV) and prove what you are saying? This is the only way which is right. If what you say crosses this Scripture, then it is WRONG.

From: joie

Sent: 5/7/2003 10:34 PM

Genesis 18

1. And the Lord appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;
2. And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground,

3. And said, My Lord, if now I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant:

Abraham called these men Lord. There were three men; Abraham called them Lord.

All through this chapter 'they' speak to Abraham and he calls 'them' Lord.

Now please explain this to me.

( I am not a trinitarian, either. Both doctrines are false and of Satan).

By the way, did you never wonder why there so many NAMES for the LORD?

Maybe you should examine this a little further. How is it that you think God is so inferiour to us? How is you think His kingdom should consist of just 1 being? Everything else He made is innumerable. Why is he any less?

How is Christ made up of many members and is the image of God?

Look up the word 'ONE' as you are looking up so much else. Herein lies the secret and your delusion.

now i tell you what, i just love this thread. it is mighty good reading. i got a good laugh when i read that thing aobuut did Jesus come done on Jesus.

people who cannot see through that one, but just not be able to think straight. guess that wolf has deceived their minds and they can't think.

You gotta help me out here. Well I am studying "Kenosis Of Christ". Let me sum it up from what I have read so far. Because I think it is the same thing that you have been saying-it is just that Dake gave it a big word. "Kenosis".

Let me sum this up (and please correct me if I am wrong on anything).

God was in Heaven, With Jesus

God sent His son Jesus here in flesh.

Jesus was crucified in Flesh

Jesus went back to heaven in Spiirt, got His glory back from the Father.

That is the way I am understanding it. To sum it up to my understanding is When Jesus was here on Earth-he was just a plain man like you and I.

Is this right? Tweety

I know you are trying. Just keep studying and seeking and ye shall find. Just do not close out truth. Let God reveal it to you from Scripture.

Remember, always remember, If it is truth, it will be written in scripture.

If it is not truth, it is not written in Scripture. a better way of saying it, if it is not written in Scripture, it is a lie.

Now that word, "Kenosis" is NOT written in Scripture. That teaching is not written in Scripture.

I am NOT saying that.

I am NOT saying that Jesus was with God in the beginning in heaven.

Jesus did not exist until he was born from Mary. He did not exist before.

He was not a god in heaven, then he left heaven, some kind of way (the word certainly does NOT tell us how he is supposed to have left heaven, a god now mind you, the eternal god, leaving heaven and coming down here to earth and off all things, condensed himself down to a microscopic cell or something, and placed himself or rather the holy ghost somehow placed this god into mary's womb....

see? is such foolish mess taught in Scripture? No, no, no. a million times no.

Jesus was a man, made in all points as we are. See what I told you......that when you read scripture, you (people) read it as they already think it is.

they insert words from their own minds, which they think fits what is being said, when it is a million miles off.

but the blinded mind will tell you, oh yes, this is what it is saying, because you already believe it that way, so you make it look like it is saying what you want it to say.

This is blinding your own heart.

Read it as it is stated. compare it with other verses on the same subject. let one verse explain the other.

else you will always be in confusion and darkness and error.

Is that what you want?

No, Jesus was not a god in heaven before he was here on earth.

Jesus IS THE BEGINNING. Jesus is the ending.

But it had to be a beginning of SOMETHING. an ENDING of SOMETHING. what?

Not of time. not of eternity. the word plainly tells us: Jesus was the beginning of a new creation of God. Jesus was the first born from the DEAD. He rose in the new man. He rose a man in the likeness of God.

He was the beginning of the new world. a man in the glory and image of God. He ended that old world of flesh. and brought a new world of Spirit.

Now that is the truth. It is written. It was the Word in heaven with God. Jesus is not the Word. God placed the Word into Jesus' mouth. Read it ...read it...read it.

WOW... I got my money's worth out of this one!!

It's funny I was just invited to this group yesterday and okay I'm on heresy watch today (and most days of the week) and when I read the title of this I know nothing about Jo, who invited me and I was like ... oh great another Jesus only group.. And I had 1 Cor 9 all ready to go and then she quoted it and then I'm like ... oh so either not Jesus only or bringing it on..

Anyway I'm not sure if you guys are edifying one another (or realize that you *are* edifying one another or not.) Or who was quoting who at some points. But ... awesome. Talk on.

Personally I was reading about the "Arian heresy" and where Arius said about the Nicene Council that they were denying Jesus was born - in other words tending toward a denial that Jesus had come in the flesh. But really they were both playing the same game, both currying the emperor's favor, both worried about what the other side was doing.. If I think Arius was slightly less wrong..

The important thing is that we talk about these things. That we share the truth. And that we work out the truth. That we grow in grace and the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.. Honestly.

It's funny but in dealing with this whole religion issue the issue of being able to share and talk while at the same time not saying anything and everything is true, of protecting our hearts and minds, comes up over and over. I dunno but before God I think the power to allow human beings to think and talk and express Him, that is real power.

Also I frown upon philosophic attempts to "define God." On all sides. He is who He is, not who we think He is. He does not exist because I understand Him. He is real, exists, apart from my faith in Him, apart from our existence.. Many times I think we'd all do well to remember that. All around.

I'm not responding to what anyone says know, though I'd like to! Cuz I just wanted to pause and say how awesome it is to talk these things over and still be able to dwell in love and unity.

To *really* know God. To *really* have seen the Father. In that we know and understand this about Him: that He loves us and wants us to know Him directly, not through some teacher of philosophical ideal. Because that's what the world needs. God. The real thing. Zeal for the right thing.

Awesome read guys. But remember and never forget those "heretics" on the other side are loved by Him too. Not speaking so much of the false teachers who ought to know better now, but of those who they mislead.. Which is ... let's be honest most of Christendom at this moment in history.. Sad but true facts. Not that I need to tell you any of this I'm sure. But that's why we're here, doing what we do. Not to win arguments. But to free souls, to clear the air, so people don't live in bondage to false teachers or philosophical ideals anymore.. Because we really do care. Really. LOL. Even if we get so frustrated and angry sometimes!!

Anne, this is so very true. I am not out to 'win' battles, so to speak. I am not out to 'prove' I am right. I am out to teach the truth of God's Holy word.

that IS important. It is not something unimportant. Jesus told us to study to shew ourselves approved to God. He said search the Scriptures.

It is important to learn and believe the TRUTH. I fully agree that the entire church, as we know it today, is in error and darkness. Yet they cannot be saved in that darkness.

I am not teaching some philosophical ideals. I am teaching the true Word of God. Nothing I have ever heard before God started teaching me himself, ever really EXPOUNDED (explained) the Scriptures). It takes the Holy Ghost giving us the revelation of Scripture, tied together to reveal the solid truth.

I could never say it is just to converse with others. I could never say it is not important to know the truth, for it takes the TRUTH to set us free.

I was once a trinitarian, (because I was raised like that), but then I went into the Jesus only doctrine, for I saw that the trinity thing was not true. But after much more study, God spoke to me and showed me that the Jesus only doctrine was just as wrong or more so.

Now I teach what God told me and what his Word truly teaches. God is a man-membered kingdom. All the members of the God kingdom are in perfect harmony, power, love, and glory. it is a truly wonderful thing. Only God can show this to a person.

So I hope you are open for God to teach you and will study and seek for the true knowledge of God's Holy word.

The truth is neither trinity, nor Jesus only. Neither doctrine is taught in Scripture. Moses did not proclaim this. Isaiah did not proclaim this. Jesus did not. Peter did not. Paul did not. John the Baptist did not. So where did it come from?

Glad to have you here and hope you will stay and continue to join in on all the discussions.

If you have some question as to what I mean anywhere, feel free to ask.

I am now working on the study Tweety posted from Dakes. In this is many of these questions cleared up.

I hope to soon get back to the 'days' in Genesis. it is purely NOT anything men have taught us.

I made a misprint in the above post. I meant to say God is a MANY- membered kingdom---- not a man-membered. this keyboard is flat and makes it hard for me to type. My first one was a jewell to type on.

the reason you had trouble telling who was saying what in this thread, is because I took and moved my posts from another thread, which we did way back, and it is way back, on the general board.

I did not move what Apostolicminnster posted, for most all of it was long, tedious, tiny print, from purely copied materials, mostly from TRINITY commentators. Mind that, he believed in Jesus only, yet fought me with words from what he called 'scholars' who were TRINITARIANS.

Can you imagine that?

I put some of his words at the top of my posts as I moved them to the Jesus-only board.

He used to work here a good bit, but has not now for a long time. None of the Jesus-only people will stay with me long. When I start asking them questions, for which they have no answers, they leave.

Right now, I do not think any of them are here. I truly wish they would stay and study and accept some truth.

but I am glad you enjoyed this thread, I have sat here and read it all again. Need to get up and move about some.

Great to have you with us.

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