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~~ My Father and I ~~

John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I. ( see he said he went unto the Father which was greater than himself.

John10:30 I and my Father are one. . ( Jesus was not stating that He and his Father was one here as the Trinitarians say and as the ONENESS people say. He referred to the unity such as was on the day of Pentecost where they were in one mind and one accord. Jesus prayed that this same unity would become a reality among his followers.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. (see the plural word we there. If Jesus were God so are we because he said let them be one as we are one.)

Jesus lived as God's servant. He yielded perfect obedience to His Father. He always did those things that pleased God. This showed that Jesus recognized God as greater than he.

John 8:28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.

( Jesus received his knowledge from God because he said here that his Father had taught him what to do. Now if this is so how could he be God as the Trinitarians say and the oneness people say? God knows all things, Jesus did not. Boy did I really hit a nail ? To show you this I have scripture to prove it? You ought to know by now that neither Joie or I say what we can not show in the word. Now here is proof.

Mark13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father( See that is the best way to prove anything is by the word and the word said that hour knoweth no man, not even the Son, but only the Father. If the Son were the Father, which again he is not, how come Jesus did not know the hour?

God is perfect in knowledge. Jesus had to increase in knowledge.

Luke 2:52 And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man.

" ( increase means that he began to grow in the wisdom and knowledge of God as we should. You know lots of time we say we want to be like Jesus, well let your wisdom and stature increase and that is the way to find favor with God and man.)

Jesus said that Son can do nothing of himself, he only does what the Father tells him to do and speaks the things the Father tells him to speak.

John 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me. ( see all Jesus wanted done was the will of the Father. He did not seek his own will as you know he said in the garden not my will but thine will be done.)

There is so much more that I could add to this but this probably is already to much for some of you and I doubt that some has not even got this far. Besides I have been here on this for about 3 hours and I am so tired that I do not know whether I can get out of this chair or not, but this is the truth and you need to increase in wisdom of who the Son of God is and who the Father is.

Luke 10: 21. In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, LORD of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight.

22. All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him.

23. And he turned him unto his disciples, and said privately, Blessed are the eyes which see the things that ye see:

24. For I tell you, that many prophets and kings have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.

The above part was written by Larry Bray.

The following is by Jo Smith:

How I thank My God for this glorious and truthful message! This is food for my soul. This is truth. This is Manna from Heaven.

Blessed are the eyes which see the things you see; and blessed are the ears which hear what you hear. Blessed of God are you and I.

We see and hear the truth. This is something almost no one has.

If a person can read this message and still cling to the lies of Rome, they are just doing despite to the Spirit of Truth and rejecting, willfully, all that God teaches. I truly believe a person would have to willfully CHOOSE lies to refuse to see this which is so clearly taught and PROVEN BY WRITTEN WORD HERE.

It is as I have said so many times, we PROVE EVERY WORD WE SAY BY THE WRITTEN WORD. The Trinitarians and the Jesus onlies cannot prove a thing they say with WRITTEN WORD. They just hurl things at us which has been handed down to them from their 'fathers'. They have not sought to prove a thing as God said to do.

They KNOW THEY Could not prove what they say with Scripture; so they bring up false teachers' sayings. That is all the foundation they can find. Rotten Wood!

That is why so many come here to this group, stay a while, read our true messages; and then leave. They cannot take real truth; for it crosses their grain and the lies of their fathers. They are rejecting God when they reject the Word. Did not he say the Word was God? sure he did. It is the Father's own words; so it is him. My words are me; they are my thoughts. So it is with God.

They are accusing Jesus of a lie, they are accusing Jesus of claiming to be God. Jesus did no such thing! This is the sin of Adam, not Jesus.

Now read verse 21 above ---Jesus is thanking His Father that he hid these things from those who think they are wise and has revealed them to babes. We are his babes.

Now read v.22 (this is powerful)-- Jesus said his Father had delivered all things to him (see proof of my message on the transference of power -- that the Father put all things into Jesus' hands and lifted him up to the status of being our God?)

But look at his next words.....No man knows who the Father is-- except those to whom the Son reveals him. And no man knows who the Son is.

See? Only those to whom the Son gives this revelation to knows, KNOWS who the Father or the Son is.

Now I can assure all of you, the Trinitarians and the Jesus only people DID NOT GET ANY REVELATION FROM JESUS SAYING WHAT ANY OF YOU SAY.

IF YOU SAY YOU DID, SHOW US THE SCRIPTURE JESUS REVEALED IT TO YOU FROM. HE ONLY GIVES REVELATION FROM THE WORD.

HE SAYS ONLY WHAT HIS FATHER SAYS; AND HIS WORD IS THE WORD. THIS IS GOD. THE WORD. YOU CANNOT PROVE A THING UNLESS THE WORD SAYS IT.

All any of you have is tradition handed down to you from someone else; not a revelation from Jesus.

If you had the revelation from Jesus, you would say the same thing he said. He said My Father is greater than I. I say only what my Father tells me to say.

Where can any of you make this statement? You cannot, and you know it.

So it proves you JUST DO NOT WANT TRUTH.

You accuse Larry and me of twisting the Word. I do not see one word in this message that was not quoted exactly from the Scripture, the Word. If you can find one place where he

( Larry) 'twisted' any Scripture,

BRING IT FORTH. SHOW IT. REVEAL IT.

All of you accuse us of twisting Scripture, yet you do not bring forth one Word which matches the Word.

By Jo Smith

Very good message, that I forgot.So would some of you that believe in the trinity and Jesus only prove us wrong on this if you can.

This message proves without a shadow of doubt that Jesus was not God, but he was the Son of God.

Thanks Freeborn for bringing this one back to the top.

Larry, Mr. to you know who!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We both know well that they cannot disprove anything we teach, for we give pure Scripture saying what we say....none of them can.

where is one Scripture saying God is a trinity of beings? or a god incarnate? or that Jesus is God and the only person in the Godhead?

someone give me one verse saying any of this, or come out of that lie into the truth......else you will lose your soul.....because you reject the truth of God to hold to your fake lie.

This is what Kenosis is talking about. This is the same thing that Dake is saying.

Jesus was NOT GOD! That is why it is so hard for me to understand the ONENESS BOARD. When I finish studying it, I may post it here. I am so excited.

I feel like it's Christmas time and I just opened a present. Tweety

This was done by Bill4Christ on my board. This is what I am studying. There is another part to it, that I will add to Bill's post. I am writing it out for my pastor-since he does not understand what "Kenosis". I will type out the second part of this tommorrow. It is called Christ's Union With the Father". See ya then. Tweety

The "Kenosis" of Christ

 Greek: kenoo (GSN-2758), to empty out, drain. It is translated "make void" (Romans 4:14; 1 Cor. 9:15); "make of none effect" (1 Cor. 1:17); "be in vain" (2 Cor. 9:3); and "make of no reputation" (i.e., He emptied Himself; Phil. 2:7).�?/FONT>

Of what did Christ empty Himself?  It could not have been His divine nature, for He was God not only from all eternity (Micah 5:1-2; John 1:1-2; Hebrews 1:8; Rev. 1:8-11), but God manifest in flesh during His life on earth (Isaiah 7:14; Isaiah 9:6-7; Matthew 1:18-25; John 1:1-2,14; 1 Tim. 3:16).

Christ emptied Himself of:

�?. Equality with God (Phil. 2:6-7; John 14:28; 1 Cor. 11:3)
�?. God-form or God-body, the spirit body that He lived in from eternity, to take human-form (Phil. 2:6-8; Phil. 3:21; Matthew 1:18-25; Luke 1:35; John 1:14; Luke 24:37-40; Zech. 13:6; Galatians 4:4; Romans 8:3)
�?. Immortality of body (1 Cor. 15:3; Psalm 16:10; 1 Peter 2:24; 1 Peter 3:18)
�?. The glory that He had with the Father before the world was (John 12:23; John 17:5; Matthew 16:27; Phil. 2:5-11)
�?. His authority in heaven and in earth, which was given back to Him after the resurrection (Matthew 28:18; Phil. 2:9-11; Ephes. 1:20-23; 1 Peter 3:22)
�?. His divine attributes and outward powers that He had with the Father from eternity. He had no power to do miracles until He received the Holy Spirit in all fullness (John 2:11; John 3:34; Isaiah 11:1-2; Isaiah 42:1-7; Isaiah 61:1-2; Luke 3:21-22; Luke 4:16-21; Matthew 12:28; Acts 10:38). He could do nothing of Himself in all His earthly life. He attributed all His works, doctrines, powers, etc. to the Father through the anointing of the Holy Spirit (John 8:28).

This is proved by the following facts in Scripture:
�?1) He was limited to the status of a man (Phil. 2:6-8; Hebrews 2:14-18; Hebrews 5:8-9).�?BR>(2) He was God's agent using God's power of attorney (John 8:28; Acts 10:38).�?BR>(3) He was our example that we should walk in His steps (1 Peter 2:21).
�?4) The temptations prove that He was limited as a man so that He could overcome as a man and not as God (Hebrews 4:14-16; Hebrews 5:7-9).
�?5) Isaiah (Isaiah 7:14-16) speaks of the Messiah being born without knowledge enough to know to refuse the evil and choose the good.
�?6) Isaiah (Isaiah 11:2; Isaiah 53:1-12) speaks of the Messiah being limited as an ordinary baby, showing that God would give Him the spirit of wisdom, understanding, counsel, might, knowledge, and fear of the Lord. If He had these attributes as God from all eternity and did not lay them aside in becoming man when was this ever true of Him?
�?7) Isaiah (Isaiah 50:4-11) predicted that the Messiah would be born without the tongue of the learned, without knowing how to speak a word in season to help any soul, and that He would be wakened day by day to increase in knowledge and wisdom.�?BR>(8) Isaiah (Isaiah 42:1-7; Isaiah 61:12-2) speaks of Messiah receiving His power to manifest divine acts by the anointing of the Holy Spirit and not by retaining His own former natural attributes and powers. Is it necessary for God to be anointed with the Holy Spirit to do what He is naturally capable of doing? If it became necessary to anoint Jesus during His earthly life, then it proves He did not retain His former glory and attributes which He had from all eternity when He emptied Himself to become like men in all things (Phil. 2:6-8; Hebrews 2:14-18; Hebrews 5:8-9).�?BR>(9) History records that Christ was limited as a baby and grew in body, soul, and spirit (mind, 1 Cor. 2:11), grace, wisdom, stature, and favor with God and man (Luke 2:40,52). Even after His manhood, His full anointing and gifts of the Spirit, He was still limited in knowledge (Mark 13:32). He even learned obedience by the things He suffered (Hebrews 4:14-16; Hebrews 5:7-9).�?BR>(10) He did not claim the attributes of God, but only the anointing of the Spirit to do His works (John 8:28; Matthew 12:28; Luke 4:16-21). Others stated this was the source of His power (John 3:34; Acts 10:38). Most scriptures used in theological texts proving that Christ had divine attributes on earth are statements true of Him since His glory has been restored and do not prove anything during His life on earth. All scriptures related to His earthly life can be explained as referring to the exercise of the gifts of the Spirit and not natural attributes.
�?11) The fact that Christ promised all believers power to do the works He did proves that it was through the anointing of the Spirit, not by His deity and natural attributes, that He did His works (Matthew 10:1-20; Matthew 16:18; Matthew 18:18; Luke 10; Luke 24:49; Mark 16:15-20; John 14:12-15; Acts 1:4-8).
�?12) His exaltation to original glory and the highest place under God the Father is proof of His lowest humiliation and earthly limitation short of being God by nature (Phil. 2:9-11; Ephes. 1:20-23; Col. 1:15-23; Col. 1:15-23; 1 Peter 3:22).�?/FONT>

There are a lot of scriptures here, and a good study on the kenosis of Christ can not be done in a matter of days. It takes weeks, if not months. If anyone is interested, we could start a new thread on this and take each point, one by one to get into the depth of them.

But notice, there are tons of scriptures to support this doctrine, and it is put forth in God's Word so we can understand why Jesus acted the way He did during His humanity, and why He said what He said. If an honest study is done, one can understand the kenosis of Christ, and then understand the divinity of Jesus in a correct manner. God bless.

I am glad you brought this study to our group. I sincerely hope you will honestly study this subject and pray for the truth. Allow God to speak to you.

OK, let's get started.

In the first place, this is ANOTHER of those teachings for which not one Scripture exists. I could not count the times bill has said to me, when I pointed out a thing like this to him, that it is not in Scripture.

I am telling you, I would be afraid to keep teaching anything for which I had to say so many times, It is not really written in Scripture. this alone proves it to be false doctrine.

Tweety. do some searching of Scripture itself. for a change, forget Dakes. Study what the KJV says. Study what Paul said. Study what JEsus said.

Now for starters, Kenosis is not one time mentioned in Scripture. That is why your pastor does not know about it. It is also why I do not know this word. It is NOT Scriptural. It is not written. So someone MADE THIS UP.

How long will you all hold to man-made-up doctrine? Are you not afraid of losing your soul? If you change God's word, you will never get truth. Without a love for truth, you cannot be saved.

So now look at this. Not one single Scripture ever in any kind of way tells us that Jesus ever at any time 'emptied' himself of anything.

Only a misunderstanding of a few verses could even hint at such a thing. Jesus did NOT exist before Mary had him. Now that is gospel truth. I know it looks like in some places that it is saying that He had glory with the Father BEFORE. But that is the Word speaking inside Jesus. It was not Jesus. It was the Word.

Jesus was NEVER GOD. He is only our God now because God, his Father, lifted or exalted Jesus up to sit on the throne of God and told us to worship his son. Thus he became our God. But he is still a man. He put on the Spirit of the Lord God. so he became one with the Lord God. Thus he is God for us now.

Do you understand any of this? It is what the Scripture DOES SAY. if you can't believe what the Scripture DOES SAY, how can you believe what it does NOT SAY?

No truth can come this way.

He went into this:

For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:

From: <NOBR>

Tweety134</NOBR>

Sent: 11/26/2006 9:44 PM

Dear Freeborn,

This was done by Bill4Christ on my board.

Another thing, Tweety u need to get away from this Bill fellow, as well as Fenis Dake.

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