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| | From:  Freeborn22 (Original Message) | Sent: 9/5/2006 1:39 AM |
I am starting this new thread with some more of the messages between Apostolicminister and us. this is good on explaining one of their main places of misunderstanding, Isa. 9:6. This will also be a good place of study for some of our new members, who are trying to come to the understanding of God/Jesus. ************************************** | From: joie | Sent: 5/6/2003 8:20 PM | | Isa 9:6
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace
Hello Apostolicminister, I am very sorry about your having to have surgery. I pray you are having a speedy recovery. I know you have a life outside this board. I only thought you had left us. I know myself at times I do not have the time to do what is needed here. And that is why I had not gotten into this with you any sooner. Now about the above Scritpure. See I know how this verse leads the Jesus only people into the false understanding they think they have. I also once saw it this same way. Yes, I once was of that Jesus only belief. But I can honestly tell you and everyone else, that false doctrine CROSSES TOO MANY SCRIPTURES. The truth will never cross even one verse. That is how you know when God has given you the real truth - it will be in perfect harmony and agreement with EVERY OTHER VERSE; FOR THE WORD OF GOD IS THE WHOLE BOOK. HE DID NOT LIE OR CROSS HIMSELF AT ANY POINT. If what you believe leaves unanswered question anywhere in the Book, then you do not have it right. I learned this as God himself taught me. I did start another thread asking you the question, Who was God's servant. I proved to you right there by many Scriptures that Jesus while on earth was God's servant. The 'child' being spoken of in Isa. 9:6 was the resurrected Christ; not the baby Mary gave birth to. Yes there is a difference. As much difference as what I am now and what I will be when I am resurrected into glorification to see no more death. See, when the disciples tried again and again to get the earthly man Jesus to set up a kingdom and rule it as king, he refused. See, that GOVERNMENT did not and was not meant to rest upon HIS shoulders. It was to rest upon the shoulders of the resurrected Christ. If Jesus had set up an earthly kingship with him as king in his mortal body, all of God's creation would have been lost. Jesus was a mortal man. He died. This is the proof that he was mortal. God is not mortal . God cannot die. It is reprobate to claim that God became a mortal man. This is Romans 1- changing the glory of the uncorruptible God to a mortal man. The resurrected Christ is the one who was called the mighty God, the everlasting Father, the Prince of peace. See, Read Heb. 1. You will see that this is when Jesus was set to be called our God. Not when he was here in human flesh. Only in that resurrection into the likeness and glory of His Father, God, was he then set to be same as God. God is not just 1 being. No! This is the total misunderstanding of the whole churchworld. God is a whole kingdom of beings; same as Christ' kingdom is made up of MANY MEMEBERS. So is Satan --= a whole kingdom of beings. So is the anti-christ. So is the beast. So is the false prophet. None of these are 1 singular being. That is where everyone is missing the real truth. The false prophet is lots of beings, people, all in harmony of being against Christ. To deny the Father AND the Son is anti-christ. Now the posts are just too long and tiny print makes it very difficult for me to pick up on every little thing you said and comment on it. I am teaching this from the Word of God. We should not be in competition with each other. learning TRUTH is all that is important. Glad to see you back. God bless and heal you. Jo | |
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(We started this thread out on Baptism, but it quickly moved into the Jesus-only doctrine. I will still look for some good messages on Baptism. We need some more on the baptism thread. Larry, if you see any, please move them to the Baptism thread. I looked for some a few days ago, but saw we had almost no good ones on that thread. We need some good ones we can put our fingers on without having to sift through back pages.)
| From: joie | Sent: 5/7/2003 10:34 PM | | Genesis 18 1. And the Lord appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;
2. And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground,
3. And said, My Lord, if now I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant:
Abraham called these men Lord. There were three men; Abraham called them Lord. All through this chapter 'they' speak to Abraham and he calls 'them' Lord. Now please explain this to me. ( I am not a trinitarian, either. Both doctrines are false and of Satan). By the way, did you never wonder why there so many NAMES for the LORD? Maybe you should examine this a little further. How is it that you think God is so inferiour to us? How is you think His kingdom should consist of just 1 being? Everything else He made is innumerable. Why is he any less? How is Christ made up of many members and is the image of God? Look up the word 'ONE' as you are looking up so much else. Herein lies the secret and your delusion. | |
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| From: joie | Sent: 5/20/2003 12:49 AM | Matt. 3: 13. Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him.
14. But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?
15. And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.
16. And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
17. And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
v16--Jesus was baptized, and while still standing in the water, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God DESCENDING (means coming down) (now mind you, this Spirit of God is not in Jesus; nor is Jesus this Spirit- I saw where you said that Jesus is the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost) (there is no way this could be true; Jesus did not Father himself) But look at this -- The Spirit decended down from Heaven like a dove, and lighting upon him, Jesus. Now I ask you, did Jesus decend down from Heaven and light upon Jesus? If so, please explain how this is possible. but that is not all-- wait! v17--a voice FROM HEAVEN, spoke and said, "THIS IS MY BELOVED SON, IN WHOM I AM WELL PLEASED" ( do you believe God or not? God said this is my Son, he did not say this is myself) Now I ask you, whose voice is this? How did it come from heaven and Jesus was standing there on earth in the water? The Spirit is there, lite upon Jesus, not in Jesus, lite upon Him, and this voice speaks FROM HEAVEN. What was Jesus doing? How was he decending down from heaven as a bird, = a dove, and lighting upon himself, and then speaking from heaven while he stands in water upon earth? huh? And you see that all as Jesus? Is Jesus a ventriloquist? I want you to explain your belief of this Scripture. | |
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| From: joie | Sent: 5/20/2003 8:17 PM | He was not like his brethern in every way. Not every man was conceived by the Holy Ghost. Who but God can forgive sin? No other man has the fullness of the godhead bodily. I am also pleased that you see that we are not speaking of two different individuals here.(aposm.)
Now you are speaking against the Word when you say Jesus was not like unto his brethern in every way. God said he was. Just because he ws conceived by the Holy Ghost does NOT prove that the Holy Ghost did not give life to a full human being. Surely if God created Human beings in the first place, he could also give another human being this way. He proved in in the O.T. In Isaiah 8. Another human being was brought forth by a virgin. God always proves things with 2 or 3 witnesses. Jesus did not have the fullness of the Godhead bodily inside him until He was resurrected and ascended to heaven and then God gave Him all the power of God. There is a NEW MAN in Heaven, the second Man Adam. This new creation of God was made a quickening Spirit. If you try to make the human first Adam Jesus this one who had all the power of God, then you are doing away with this working of God which brought Jesus back from the Dead in a resurrection, gave him a glorified body and then made him a quickening Spirit. This is Second Adam. Have you never learned of Second Adam? Have you never learned of the new creation of God? Have you never learned of the New Man? This is a HEAVENLY MAN IN HEAVEN; Jesus was an earthly man which had to be done away with so the new MAN could live. This is the very same pattern we must go through. Yes Jesus was made in all points like unto his brethern. He was tempted in all points like unto us. If he had been God in human flesh, then this would not have happened. It would have been invalid. How would GOD overcoming sin be anything? God is not tempted to sin. God has all power. Jesus overcame sin just as we do; only much more completely; but he did it by faith and love for God. He did not do it by being God. Else it would have meant nothing. God cannot sin. Jesus could have. but he did not. | |
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| From: joie | Sent: 5/20/2003 11:00 PM | The Father was speaking, the Son was standing, the Spirit was decending. What 'bout that....One God. How was he decending down from heaven as a bird, = a dove, Perhaps you think He had wings? and lighting upon himself, and then speaking from heaven while he stands in water upon earth? huh? And you see that all as Jesus? Jesus is the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost.(apos. min)
I did this one a while ago; a very good one ; a lot of work into it; then lost it. made me just sick. But anyways I will try to reconstruct this. Your words: What about the 'ONE' God? Now I ask you, how many do you suppose Paul was speaking of when he said, "You are ALL ONE?". Figure it! Did God have 'wings'? Well let the Word of God tell you~~~~ (do you believe the Word?) Psm. 91: 4. He shall cover thee with his feathers, and under his wings shalt thou trust: his truth shall be thy shield and buckler (how bout that? not only wings, but feathers) Psm. 68: 13. Though ye have lien among the pots, yet shall ye be as the wings of a dove covered with silver, and her feathers with yellow gold Psm. 63: 7. Because thou hast been my help, therefore in the shadow of thy wings will I rejoice Psm. 61: 4. I will abide in thy tabernacle for ever: I will trust in the covert of thy wings. Selah. Psalms 57 1. Be merciful unto me, O God, be merciful unto me: for my soul trusteth in thee: yea, in the shadow of thy wings will I make my refuge, until these calamities be overpast. Psm. 36: 7. How excellent is thy lovingkindness, O God! therefore the children of men put their trust under the shadow of thy wings. Psm. 17: 8. Keep me as the apple of the eye, hide me under the shadow of thy wings, Now is that enough Scripture? There is more, but I think that is sufficient. There is not even one single Scripture saying that Jesus is the name of the Father and the Holy Ghost. You are just twisting Scripture to say this. You will never see any real truth until you get upon the right foundation. Every revelation in the whole word depends upon this true revelation of who Jesus really is. Peter had the true foundation. When Jesus asked Peter, Who do you say that I am. Peter spoke prophecy to the Christ; He said, thou art the Christ, the SON OF THE LIVING GOD. He never said you are God. Jesue verified that this was a true revelation to Peter, not from flesh and blood, but from his Father in Heaven. Your Jesus only doctrine makes all of Jesus' own words seem foolish. He said, My Father is greater than I. He said, not my will, but YOURS BE DONE. He said I came not to do my will but the will of my Father. I do always the things which please my Father. ( and you want to do away with that?) You want to call him a lie - you want to say, Oh yes, Jesus I know you did do your own will; for you are the only one. Now you are the silly one. Another thing, I asked you to begin with to do only one point at a time, USING THE KJV SCRIPTURES. BUT YOU CANNOT DO THAT. You are 'fillibustering'. to hide the fact that you cannot deal with Word. I have posted scripture after scripture proving God is not Jesus and you just ignore it. I am not going to sift through miles of pasted, in tiny print, stuff from Strongs or any other man-made stuff. I have answered some of your points, then you just ignore it and re-do the same ones. So have it your way. But you cannot deal with the true Word. | |
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| From: joie | Sent: 5/20/2003 11:03 PM | 11. Psalm 118:14 The LORD is my strength and song, and is become my salvation [Yeshua]. Ps. 118:15 The voice of rejoicing and salvation [Yeshua] is in the tabernacles of the righteous: the right hand of the LORD doeth valiantly. - Jehovah is become Salvation [Yeshua]!
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YESHUA??????? What about JESUS????? Thought you said JESUS is the name of our salvation. I stay with the name of JESUS as my Saviour. You are the one pumping out another name. you better wake up! Jesus is my Saviour- not any YESHUA. I do not know this other 'god?' | Reply
| | | Do you baptize in the name of Jesus or do you baptize in the name of [Yeshua]!? | | |
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| From: joie | Sent: 5/21/2003 12:59 PM | | Do you pray for the sick in the name of Yeshua? If not why not? When you worship, do You say praise you Lord Yeshua? I can tell you I do not! I still use the precious name of JESUS. | |
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| From: joie | Sent: 5/21/2003 1:35 PM | | You are clearly 'hiding' for the truth has you on the 'run'. You are using scrambled up jumbled up words to hide behind. Come out into the open. Let's take the Word of God one verse at a time. Leave Strongs out of this. You would be lost without that. You are not teaching the Word of God. As far as what Peter said at Baptism, I know this; My God gave me His Word in my language. He told me to use the name JESUS. And that is what I do. Whatever Peter said meant JESUS. If you were true to Jesus, you would not pick up this stuff which is not in God's Word. If God wanted me to call Jesus Yeshua, he would have told me so. I don't believe you could raise the dead in that name of Yeshua. I don't believe you could heal the sick or cast out devils in that name. And I dont believe God will wash away sins using that name. You deny Jesus and use that name if you wish, I will not. Just because some carnal minded man tell me Yeshua is the name of Jesus does not make me believe him. My safety is staying with THE KJV. | |
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| From: joie | Sent: 5/21/2003 2:03 PM | John 14: 10. Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
11. Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
12. Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
(now the fact that the Father was in Jesus does not say that the Father was not elsewhere. See, by Jesus saying, I GO to my father shows that the Father was elsewhere. The Spirit of the Father was in Jesus, but the Father himself was in Heaven. Same way His spirit is in me now, but do you think that means He himself is not still in Heaven? You need to think about this.
John 17: 8. For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me. ( who sent Jesus?)
John 5: 19. Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
20. For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.
21. For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.
22. For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
23. That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
(now there is your answer to the thing you poked at me about - that if you have the Father you also have the Son -- they are in such unity and faithfulness to each other, they will not let you have one and deny the other. Read------) John 17: 1. These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
2. As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
3. And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
(Now brother, you better read that and quit listening to false teachings. This is Jesus' own words saying that ETERNAL LIFE IS TO KNOW THEE, THE ONLY TRUE GOD {HE IS SPEAKING TO HIS FATHER HERE} AND CALLING HIM, THE FATHER, THE ONLY TRUE GOD- - AND JESUS CHRIST, WHOM THE FATHER SENT) To deny this is to call Jesus and the Word a LIE. Now if you fear not to call Jesus a lie, and set carnal minded mens' words above Jesus' words, you just go to it; but I WILL NOT DO THIS. I believe what Jesus said.
Now see if you can deal with this. It is not Strongs. It is God's Word. | |
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| He was not like his brethern in every way. Not every man was conceived by the Holy Ghost. Who but God can forgive sin? No other man has the fullness of the godhead bodily. I am also pleased that you see that we are not speaking of two different individuals here. (aposm.)
Heb 2:17- Wherefore in all things (or in every way) it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people. There was also others conceived by the Holy Ghost. Luke 1:15- For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb. As for forgiving sin- John20:23- Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained Mat 6:12 -And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors 6:14- For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: Mat 18:21-Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? Mark 11:25-And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses Luke 17:3 -Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him. 17:4-And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him Acts 7:59-And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit. 7:60 -And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep James 5:19-Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; 5:20- Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins. | |
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Eric, I have asked you many times, what is your proving grounds? By what do you call God a lie? where is your Scripture? Quote it here for me, don't just expect anyone to just take your word for it since you do not like Jesus or the Word of God, I do not accept your words as truth. |
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Yeshua is just as wrong as Jesus Jo! Eric
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| | | From: joie | Sent: 9/11/2006 4:58 PM |
Eric, you are at war with God. You are calling God a lie when you deny the name of JESUS. and it will cost you your soul. You cannot be saved except through this precious name of JESUS. Why are you against Jesus? He is your only hope of salvation. My Scripture tells me I must be saved by the Name of Jesus, and you are not my god. I will not set your words above God's Word. |
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Reply # 17 ! Jo, my precious luv, I am not at war with Jesus, I know he is not the Messiah. I searched for the truth myself, and has found out that the Church and all religions lied to me including the Jewish religion, of which the Messiah was a member, by divine order for the redemption of all mankind. If I did not luv you and the others here I would never tell you the truth. Eric
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Eric, I luv you also. That is why I keep trying to help you. You are under a horrible delusion. But I see you are determined to cling to this delusion. So I wish you a good day. JO |
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