Ok, now let's take up John 17. People so misuse this chapter to try and uphold their false doctrine.

Once you learn the true principal, you can see it throughout all Scripture. But to those who believe the lies, they also think they see it throughout Scripture, for they understand not spiritual faith talk. They ‘read�?their lies into the words. But the Word is NOT saying what they are saying.

John 17:1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: [Jesus is praying for God to glorify him so that he then can glorify God by the very glorification which God gives him.]

John 17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. [Here Jesus acknowledges that God gave him power over all flesh, so that Jesus can in turn give eternal life to those God gave him. If he were equal with God, why would God have to give him this power?]

John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. [This is a very important and misunderstood verse. Jesus is saying that eternal life is to know his Father, which the only true God, and to know Jesus Christ whom God sent. So this proves that the Father is the only true God.]

John17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. [Here Jesus says that he finished work which God gave Jesus to do. He had taught the world the Word of God.]

John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. [Now here is where the false doctrine says that Jesus is saying he had glorification with God before he came to be born on earth. But Jesus has said no such thing here. If you try to interpret this verse as such, then you HAVE to find another verse which does actually SAY this. If no verse says this, then you must find proof in other Scriptures of what this is really saying. So where is proof? In Genesis. Adam, (mankind) had eternal life to begin with. God gave that first race of people the ability to never die, if they had never sinned. So this is the glory Jesus is praying for. It proves it in the next verse, as Jesus prays not only for himself, but all of his children. If you doubt this, show me one verse saying that Jesus lived in a pre-existent state. Show me one verse referring to any incarnation. That is not taught anywhere in Scripture. Jesus was neither pre-existence, nor incarnated. He would have had to be existing before in order to be incarnated. Both teachings are of Satan.]

John 17:6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. [Here Jesus shows that his disciples belonged to God first and that God gave them to Jesus.]

John 17:7 Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee. [Those disciples knew that all things Jesus had were given to him by God. So how could he be God himself?]

John 17:8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me. [Here is solid proof that God gave his Words to Jesus. So it proves that Jesus was not the Word. The Word was a gift to Jesus from God. If you think not, prove with Scripture, not some man’s interpretation of Scripture, that Jesus is the same as the word. Remember also, there was a man sent from God, which was John. So if these words mean that Jesus came from heaven to earth, then so did John.]

John 17:9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine. 17:10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them. 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. [Here Jesus prays for all his people to be ONE as (same way) God and Jesus are ONE. So now does this make us all pre-existent? Does this make us all be the very same person? Such foolish thinking!]

John 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled. 17:13 And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves. 17:14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. [Again Jesus proclaims that he gave his disciples the Word. Did they takes bites of Jesus�?human flesh? No! So why claim that Jesus�?human flesh or body is the FLESH which he ate? It is spiritual food, Word, which we must EAT. If you are believing and ‘swallowing�?these lies of man, you are not eating the same FLESH which Jesus and his disciples ate.]

John 17:15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil. 17:16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. [They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. So does this mean that the disciples also existed before they were born? They are in the same state Jesus is. He clearly shows that right here. I am not of the world either.]

John 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. 17:18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world. [So if God sending Jesus means he came from heaven to earth, then here Jesus would be saying the disciples also came from heaven to earth. He SENT them the very same way God sent Jesus. Learn to read the Word as it is given.]

John 17:19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth. 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me. [Now there is the evidence that Jesus was praying for the glorification of all his saints, not just himself. So if he had it before, so did we. He is praying here for us ALL to be ONE as he and His Father are ONE. This clearly does away with both FALSE DOCTRINES -- THE TRINITY LIE AND THE JESUS ONLY LIE. If you believe the truth of these verses, you cannot hold to either of those false doctrines of man.]

John 17:24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world. [So you think this verse proves that Jesus lived before the foundation of the world? Then you must find proof that this is the right interpretation of this verse. You must find it clearly stated in some other verses. No, that is not the true interpretation. I have already shown in this message the truth of it. God knew the end from the beginning and loved Jesus and us from all eternity. It is not just Jesus, it is all of us.]

So now let the teachers and believers of the two false doctrines, take these same verses, as I have, one at a time and prove their false teachings with these same words. I say it cannot be done. Nowhere in this chapter is it told that Jesus lived before he lived here. Nowhere does it say that God is a trinity, or that Jesus is God and the only one. Both doctrines are fully and clearly denied here.

Jo Smith