Simmagus,  If you truly wished to learn, I could show you all of this.  But it takes time.  You are so confused you do not understand one thing I am saying.  You just jump to snorting and railing against me, without seeing that it is your own lack of understanding which is messing you up.

 

It is just the same with Scripture.  You read it, hear it, cannot understand it,  so you jump on the bandwagon with the likes of coffeman, who claim that it is corrupted. No. the only corruption is in the minds of carnal minded men.

 

If you stopped this jumping down my throat and studied,  I could make all of this clear.  but you refuse to do that.  You do not understand what I am saying, anymore than you understand Scripture, so you think it is crazy.

 

You have no Scripture for anything you are saying.  so there is no proof.  God said to prove all things.  How are you going to prove it?  what do you stand on?  man's myths about creation?  that is all you have.

 

 

You know not what you are speaking of.

 

No Scripture says or teaches that Jesus existed before his birth.  He is not a spirit and never will be a spirit.  He is a full human man.  always has been, (since he was born) and always will be.

 

He did not exist before that.  I thought I read where you said this one time.  what made you change your mind? 

 

David is right in this part of what he says.  But he is wrong when he says that Jesus did not die for our sins.  and none of the people over there seem to know enough of the Word to prove that to him.  There is plenty of proof in Scripture, of this,  yet that entire group lets' him sling this out over and over with no one correcting him.  Jesus is not God.  And I most certainly did not get this from any David.  I studied the Word for myself, all my life.

 

God told me this and proved it to me in the Scriptures.  ...many long years before I even saw a computer.  Man did not teach me anything I now know.  It all came directly from God.

 

God is a MANY  MEMBERED kingdom.  God does not just exist as 1 single being, as the whole world thinks.  It is no different with God saying to other members of the God kingdom,  let us do a thing, than if I said to this group, let us do this or that.

 

There is certainly more than one member of the human kingdom.  Just as certainly there is more than one member of the God kingdom.

Jesus belonged to the human kingdom.  The only reason he is now part of the God kingdom is because of HEBREWS ONE.

 

It was given to him as his reward for a perfect life of full obedience to God, his father.  His father is spiritual, just as he is our spiritual father.

 

What is terra forming of this world?  where is that in Scripture?  You cannot teach man's word for truth.  It must be God's word.  Where is that in the word.

 

Genesis is not dealing with the creation of any natural earth or heaven.  It is spiritual, totally about Jesus and his Church.

 

Chapter two shows the creation of man from the dust of the ground,  not chapter one.

 

You are listening to man's renegade words, claiming that God sat back, helpless, and let men corrupt his beautiful Word.

 

That is what I called a sick devil.  not you.  I was not speaking of you personally.  It is you who cannot read with understanding.

 

I spoke of the men who teach this ungodly lie.  It is of hell.  It is of satan.  If you repeat it, you are just as guilty as the person who started this lie against God.

 

Jesus did not exist before Mary gave birth to him.  How in this world do you think he got into Mary, if he existed previously?  It is not Scriptural.  it is lies of evil man.

 

Now if you wish to see what I am teaching, stop this fighting and let me show you.  If you think you have the truth of God's word,  show it to me.

 

Give me Scripture for what you are saying.  And don't try to tell me there is no such thing as God's true Word for me today.

Nope.  Again, it is your lack of understanding, because you go to the word seeking lies, so you think you found them.

God will give you the desires of your heart.  You desire to prove it is corrupt, so God let's you think these false things.

 

I go to the word seeking to know what it is truly saying.  I study and compare Scripture with other Scripture, and pray for God to teach me HIS TRUTH.

 

 

Peter was only going by what he already knew to be what he thought was God's way.....which was not eating unclean meats.

He thought this was what it meant.  But God was teaching Peter.  After Peter understood what was meant, he went, without pulling back.

 

Those Jews of that day had to make a total break with the only kind of life they had ever known,  =  that of LAW.

 

they truly thought there was no other way with God.  But God taught them the truth of GRACE.  As they understood, they followed this truth.

 

It is the same with church folks today.  They think there is no other way with God.  but in actuality, church, today, is not of God.

 

but very few can find that way of GRACE.  Paul was first to really get this message.  He had to teach it to others.

He did love his natural kin, and was showing that he loved them so much, he would give his own life up for them to come to Christ.  Such love, I do not know.  do you?

 

I would not give my place up with God for anyone.  that is truth.  If I should feel that way,  I will just have to pray for God to give it to me, for I do not have it now.

 

But I certainly do not condemn Paul for having it.  He certainly did not fail in taking the sweet message of Grace to the Gentiles.  You have such a bad outlook, it would take a miracle to bring you to some truth.  I do not see you even wanting it.

 

Sure, Peter grew up thinking the Jews could not mingle with others.  But once Paul corrected that thinking, He did it no more.

 

Why can't you receive correction?

Simmagus,  finding and knowing and believing the TRUTH of God's Word is not common or petty.  it is of utmost and eternal importance.  this is what Satan is trying to keep you believing, so he can destroy your soul.

 

Now look at these words you wrote:

WE are also all fashioned-framed out of this EARTH, whether we believe it or not.
               WE are the thinking dirtballs and walking water puddles.

---

Watch another prophet vindicate this same message. Jer 4:20 Destruction upon destruction is cried; for the whole land is spoiled: suddenly are my tents spoiled, and my curtains in a moment. Jer 4:21 How long shall I see the standard, and hear the sound of the trumpet? Jer 4:22 For my people is foolish, they have not known me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge.

Jer 4:23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.

Jer 4:24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.

Jer 4:25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.

Jer 4:26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.

Jer 4:27 For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end. Jer 4:28 For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black: because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.

Now see that the time when the earth was without form and void is right here! It is not back in some distant past when God is supposed to have created some planet, which had no shape or anything but emptiness. See that this is showing that the time the earth was without form and void is the time when the OT was coming to a close, as Jesus pronounced them DESOLATE. This is at the time of his crucifixion.

This was the time of the fall of the OT. Her tents is what is falling in this Scripture. Her tabernacle dwelt under tents. See that this speaks of the bringing in of the trumpets. So it was a woe and lamentation to the OT whom Jesus declared to be desolate. See that it repeats that they are sottish people, who have not known him. They had no understanding. See verse 28? The earth mourned and the heavens were black. It was the time of the crucifixion.

This fits exactly what Ezekiel two states. It proves beyond a doubt that when the earth was without form and void, was at the time of the crucifixion of Jesus. There is not one single Scripture stating that God created a planet with no form and void. It is not proven to be a true doctrine.

Let’s finish this chapter. It is too good to leave out.

Jer 4:28 For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black: because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.

Jer 4:29 The whole city shall flee for the noise of the horsemen and bowmen; they shall go into thickets, and climb up upon the rocks: every city shall be forsaken, and not a man dwell therein.

Jer 4:30 And when thou art spoiled, what wilt thou do? Though thou clothest thyself with crimson, though thou deckest thee with ornaments of gold, though thou rentest thy face with painting, in vain shalt thou make thyself fair; thy lovers will despise thee, they will seek thy life.

Jer 4:31 For I have heard a voice as of a woman in travail, and the anguish as of her that bringeth forth her first child, the voice of the daughter of Zion, that bewaileth herself, that spreadeth her hands, saying, Woe is me now! for my soul is wearied because of murderers.

I have shown you that this is the time of the crucifixion, when the heavens were dark. So what is this whole city which fled? It was that OT law group of bond children as God brought a close to that age of rebellion. What noise were they fleeing from? The horsemen and bowmen, the Apostles and that early church. The entire OT was forsaken. If you doubt this, read Lamentations. God did away with the kings, the prophets, the priests, the Sabbaths, the whole bit. He hated that entire way of life. It was always an abomination to him. If you doubt this, read Isaiah one. Some of them ran into thickets to hide. These are the ones who jumped right back into law, within the fake church system. Others ran up on rocks. These are the one who ran to the NT ministers and accepted Grace. But that OT ‘city�?was totally forsaken, and not a man dwelling therein. God had turned totally to the New Covenant.

What about verse 30? When she was spoiled, she then began painting herself and making herself fair for her lovers. What is that? It is that fake church, taking in all the idolatrous holidays, building fancy churches, etc. Then it speaks of the woman in travail. This is Jesus at Calvary and that early Church, as she was murdered and all kinds of evil, as she brought forth the first Son of God.

Now I truly do not understand how anyone could fail to see this pure truth. It is so clear you are without excuse if you refuse this truth. For those of you who will hold that the earth was without form and void, back when you think God created everything, show me how all of this could fit back then? How and who fled at the noise of horsemen? Who were those horsemen? Where did a woman travail in birth at that time? Nothing fits back then. Jesus is the beginning and all of this is about Jesus. You can make nothing else of all of this.

Paul and Peter were not on the same grounds as those Old Testament men and people.  They (OT folks)  did NOT have the cleansing power of the blood of Jesus Christ in their lives. 

They did NOT have the Baptism of the Holy Ghost, with which to overcome all sins of the flesh.  That is the POWER from on high, that they were empowered with.

 

Those old men, under the law, NEVER at any time had their sins remitted.  They never had the Holy Ghost power in their lives.  They never had salvation.

 

They served God as best they knew how.  But they were under the delusions of Adam's mess.

 

They were under law, and therefore could not see or understand a thing about real love.  We cannot compare the NT ministers with those OT people.  God allowed men to choose their own way in the OT times.  They never did know God as we can now know him.

 

But if you refuse the  Baptism of the Holy Ghost, baptism in water in the Name of Jesus Christ, for the REMISSION of your sins,  then you are still on the same unfruitful grounds that they were.

 

I know that you have not found NT salvation.  I can tell by your very words.  You could not have this attitude if you did have the Holy Ghost leading you.  You are still walking in your flesh, not being led by the Spirit of God.

 

No.  It is not idolatry to love and uphold the precious brothers, Peter, Paul, and all those other anointed men whom God sent, and told us to obey. 

I most certainly do not mess with any green trees.  You need to read some of the messages in this site, before you throw us with all the others.  Read my Holiday board.  Find out some truth.

I have fought all those evil holidays since I was 22 years old.  you know not what you speak of.

 

We are all ONE.  Jesus is not jealous of our honouring and obeying what those men taught.  It is wrong not to.  JEsus  told us to receive those whom he sent to us.  I have already told you this.  You cannot hear.  You do not listen.

You are on a rampage of hate toward all Scripture, toward Paul, and that evil hatred has blinded you to all truth.

 

You are accusing God of not being able to keep His word for us.  You are accusing God of not caring.  When you think men brought up the Holy book, and that God had nothing to do with it, you prove that you have absolutly no truth FAITH.

 

You can claim anything you wish,......but the mere fact that you cannot even understand that the same God who gave his word in the first place, certainly could and did watch over it and keep it every hour.

 

What do you put your faith in?  where do you get your 'knowledge"  Please be so kind as to tell us.

 

I say you belittle Peter and Paul with your silly calling them pete and paulie.  It is a means of mocking them.  You can claim anything you wish,  but it is disrepectful.

 

You even spoke of Jesus as that jesus fellow.  Now anyone who has a mind, can tell that that statement is nothing but belittlement and disrepect.

 

You think it makes you some big something because you do not honour either of them.

It only shows your hypocritical self-importance and hatred for the things of God.

I can assure you of one thing.....Peter and Paul were NOT SINNERS after they came into Christ.

No sinners can be baptized into the body of Christ, for in him is no sin.

 

you know not one thing about being baptized into the Body of Christ, and at the rate you are going now,  you never will.

 

You are not open to one truth.  You only can continue in your insults and ravings against the true Work of Jesus Christ....to cleanse and purify himself a bride of human beings.

 

No sinners could have taken the horrible abuse those men stood and stayed true to Christ.  You truly need to stop slandering the Holy Word of God and start obeying the Jesus  you pretend to know...and search the Scriptures.

 

But since you do not have a Scripture,  you cannot do that, now can you?  You only have a pile of CORRUPTION.  and you feed on that CORRUPTION....so it breeds WORMS.

 

that is your spiritual FOOD.  and that is why you are spewing out this vomit you speak.

The first thing we have to do, aside from believing,  is to REPENT.

This means confessing your sins and actually be so sorry you did them, that you come to a full readiness to never do them again.  We must truly  want to never do them again.  and mean it.

 

We must be willing to give all sin up, to be truly repented.  God will accept no less.  Teachers who claim we are still sinners after we come into Christ, are of the devil.

 

The Word of God certainly does NOT teach that.  Jesus said,  go and sin NO MORE.

 

that is the true message of Scripture.  Sin no more.

 

 

In him is no sin.  so if we are in him, there is no sin in us. He cleansed it all out.

 

We have victory then.  The baptism of the Holy Ghost, gives us the Spirit of God, actually living inside ourselves.  With this new person, which we became, we have no desire for sin.  IT is gone.

This is the glory, false teachers are cheating the world of.

 

To say you are in Christ, and still a sinner, is saying that Jesus could not take away your sins.  it is saying that his blood is no more than the blood of bulls and goats, for that could never take away sins.

So if you say Jesus can never take away your sins, you are making his blood on the level of that of animals.

 

God does not impute sin to those in Grace.  Now this does not mean we can just go out and still commit sin.  It means he sees no sin in us.  He has cleansed us, and we are no longer under condemnation.

 

So long as I continue to walk in faith, and love of God,  I will never be guilty of sin again.

 

I may make some mistakes. But that is under the blood of Jesus.  If I do not willfully sin against Him, I will never be guilty of sin again.

 

That is what a true Christian is.  Then after repentance, one must go be water baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins.

 

After God remits your sins,  YOU ARE NOT A SINNER.  then you can be baptized into the body of Christ.

He does not baptize unrepented sinners into the body of Christ, no matter if they join a 1000 churches.

 

 

How do you come to that conclusion that it refers to HEAVEN as where GOD is and was?

Where as GOD before HE perused this creation,

.You have made a quantum leap in an ASSUMPTION like I said of those

who also claim that this chapter reveals the BIG BANG- creation of the UNIVERSE.

   What do you base your assumption that this heaven isn't as it is written.

That heaven, as in the other stuff such as the objects de art  the sky?

Here is what I was speaking of that Isaiah revealed about the 'earth' being without form and void:

 

Isa 53:1 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?

Isa 53:2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.

Isa 53:3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

Now there in verse two, is the explanation, Scripturally, of what and how the ’earth�?(human body) was without form. Comeliness, or beauty represents GLORIFICATION here. This is why he was considered an ’earth�?without form or comeliness. No beauty. Means no glorification.

Isa 52:13 Behold, my servant shall deal prudently, he shall be exalted and extolled, and be very high.

Isa 52:14 As many were astonied at thee; his visage was so marred more than any man, and his form more than the sons of men:

Isa 52:15 So shall he sprinkle many nations; the kings shall shut their mouths at him: for that which had not been told them shall they see; and that which they had not heard shall they consider.

Here it shows that his FORM was so marred more than the sons of men. This certainly speaking of Jesus Christ. You must learn to find the answers and the interpretation of all Scripture from other Scripture.

No human guess work will give the right answer.

Men’s guess work, gave us the silly idea that God could not create a perfect earth to start with. He had made a big mess and had to somehow straighten it out.

I say that is lies of Satan, carried by his servants.

Isa 53:2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.

 

Read that verse.  think on it .

It is speaking about Jesus.

He shall grow up as a tender PLANT.  Is he really a plant>what kind?

and as a ROOT out of dry ground......is he really a root, growing out of the literal ground?

Can you not see from this, that he is describing spiritual things with earthly words?  and that is exactly what earth and heaven means in Gen. one.

 

See, Scripture reveals Scripture.  Not man's foolish junk.

---

From: <NOBR>simmagus</NOBR>

Sent: 7/17/2007 5:07 PM

Where is it that you concluded,  that I stated that GOD made a mess of this creation?  [you]

Simmagus,  I am truly disappointed in you.  I truly gave you credit for more than this.  You are certainly not the person I thought you to be.  all I see is another name-caller, hurling out false accusations and ridiculous rummblings.

 

I suppose it is because you have no Scripture truth with which to debate, that you stoop to such a low, miserable, un-Christian method of trying to chop me down and trample me to the lowest of the slum piles.

 

I have not said one single word in all of this conversation with you, to lift myself up.  I declare that God has taught me and that He sent me to teach what He has given me.  Is that such a horrible thing to declare?  If you think so, you are way off into some never-never land of fables, concerning the things of God.

 

I challenge you to post here where I have said anything of a puking god.  That is a lie of the worst sort.  why do you stoop to this kind of junk?  can you not debate or discuss intelligebly?  I see you have nothing to use spiritually.

 

So why not admit it and seek God's help?  You are the one trying to uplift your own self,  for you declare that you have truth without the help of the Written Word of God.

 

I say it is impossible.  Yet you are so grand that you do not need the Word of God, indeed stoop to calling it corrupt.  and you condemn me?    that is the bs you are sending out.  it is the true bull.  You know it all, without the Word of God?  How did you come to all this fine knowledge without the help of God's word?  Please pass that on to us.

Don't just sound off at the mouth,  give us some proof.

 

I have proven everything I said with Scripture.

But you are above the need for Scripture. so what knowledge do you possess?  If you were not too proud to take some time to read some of the messages I have in this site, you would see full proof of my ministry.  But you are like all the rest,  you do not want to see that.  You get more pleasure out of calling me bad things.  What I have came direct to me from the Eternal God, and it will stand eternally.

 

God is the only one who can open one's understanding.....but that same God did send teachers to help.  the blind and ignorant refuse to receive the help God has sent their way.

 

So travel on in your IGNORANCE.  and that is all I see that you have.  IGNORANCE AND EVIL SPEAKING.

 

You have no weapon, spiritually, so you must resort to trying to tear me down with your ugly words and false accusations.

 

I have already answered you several times about the Scripture in Mark.   I have told you that I have every bit of that active in my life.  Not one thing listed there  has not been accomplished in my life, many times over.

 

If you were not above reading some of the things someone else writes, you would already know that answer.

 

and what is this silly thing you keep bringing up about my not being able to type your name?  what kind of silliness is that?  Bull of the sillest sort, is all it is.

 

You have already proven that you have not one truth to debate with.

 

but you are too proud to listen and learn from someone who does.

 

What you think of me does not matter one bit.  Just Because I call your evil, of calling God's word corrupt, what it is,  evil,  does not condemn me.  I would not be a true child of God or teacher if I let that kind of evil junk go uncorrected.

 

You proved you know not one truth with you made that statement.

Here is why you jumped off onto the slippery road of ugly name-calling>>> You had to avoid dealing with this post, for you know you have no answer:

 

From: <NOBR>Freeborn551</NOBR>

Sent: 7/17/2007 6:25 PM

From: <NOBR>simmagus</NOBR> Sent: 7/17/2007 5:07 PM Where is it that you concluded,  that I stated that GOD made a mess of this creation?  [you] Did not you state the it was this literal PLANET, which was without form and void? that is where I get it.  and that is also where just about everyone else concluded that God made a mess of things to start with. If that is NOT what you think, then please explain what you do think.  what was without form and void?  If not this planet, what?  and remember that you must always find a Scripture which interprets it, or it is wrong.  You cannot just decide for yourself what god means.  If you do not have Scriptures interpreting this, then you have no way of knowing you have it right. And if it was the planet, as you stated, then that means that God made a mess to start with. If you think that is not a mess, then explain how a earth without any form and totally void, is anything other than a mess. Void means a useless emptyness.  is that what you think god made?  It is what you said.  so I drew the obvious ONLY conclusion, that you think God was unable to create a perfect earth to begin with.