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Peace : In Favor of Argument
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 Message 1 of 6 in Discussion 
From: joie  (Original Message)Sent: 8/11/2005 10:18 PM
From: joie  (Original Message) Sent: 5/6/2005 11:50 AM

~~ In Favor of Argument ~~

So many people think that it is wrong to ‘argue�?the Scriptures. But this is a false notion. It is very Scriptural to argue for the truth of the Word. So, because of so many being uneasy about this, I decided to bring forth the Word on this subject.

An English dictionary meaning of PERSUADE--- To move by argument, entreaty, or expostulation to a belief, position, or course of action. To plead with urge.

ARGUE: --- Give reasons for or against something. #2---to contend or disagree in words--dispute-- to persuade by giving reasons.

ARGUMENT; Quarrel, disagreement.

Strong’s Dictionary on PERSUADE---#3982(gk)---- To convince by argument true or false.

CONTEND; (Eng. D.) #1---struggle- to strive in debate: argue.

Strong’s on dissension--#4714(Greek)--- Controversy (uproar).

Eng. D. on dissension--- esp. partisan & contentious quarreling.

DISPUTATION; action of disputing verbal controversy. #2. Provoking debate.

Now that is enough ‘meanings�? This is the Scripture on it.

(In order to shorten the message, I will only give the verses and partial quotes)

11Cor. 5:11---...we PERSUADE men...

The reason this is important is to help all find the truth---Heb.10: 31---It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Act 15:1-7---Acts 15

1. And certain men who came down from Judea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.

2. When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.

3. And being brought on their way by the church, they passed through Phenice and Samaria, declaring the conversion of the Gentiles: and they caused great joy unto all the brethren.

4. And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the church, and of the apostles and elders, and they declared all things that God had done with them.

5. But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.

6. And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.

7. And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.

This shows the apostles having large amounts of ‘dispute, quarreling, and disputation with each other over keeping the Law of Moses.

Job 23:1-7----A righteous man can come to God’s seat and dispute with him---v6&7---this brings us strength and deliverance from him.

Acts 9:29--- 29. And he spake boldly in the name of the Lord Jesus, and disputed against the Grecians: but they went about to slay him.

Paul spake bodly in Jesus Name and disputed against the Grecians.

Acts 17:17--- Paul disputed in the synagogue with Jews and devout persons and in the market daily.

Acts 6:9---Shows Stephen disputing in the synagogue with quite a few people.

Acts 19:8-- 8. And he went into the synagogue, and spake boldly for the space of three months, disputing and persuading the things concerning the kingdom of God.

9. But when divers were hardened, and believed not, but spake evil of that way before the multitude, he departed from them, and separated the disciples, disputing daily in the school of one Tyrannus.

-Shows Paul disputing in the synagogue for three months and DAILY disputing in that school. Now this proves that Paul debated -- augured--disputed every single day to try to persuade people of the truth.

It is important to do these things IF you know the truth. To say that debating and disputing is wrong** would be to accuse Paul of evil. And also it would be to call the Word of God a lie, for that is what we are reading which says to dispute, argue, debate every day.

V9---shows him disputing daily in a school.

V10---And this continued by the space of two years; so that all they, which dwelt in Asia, heard the word of the Lord Jesus, both Jews and Greeks.

Now, see that Paul’s disputing daily for two years in that school and synagogues resulted in all them in Asia hearing the gospel. So, I draw from that that it must be a very good thing to dispute (argue) the word with people.

CONTEND: Eng. D. ---#1.struggle --to strive in debate: argue.

Jude 3: Ye should earnestly CONTEND for the faith once delivered to the saints

Micah 6:1---The Lord saith: arise and CONTEND before Mt. and hills. (See even in the OT. They were told to contend for the Word.  It is a command.

Acts 11:2--- And when Peter was come up to Jerusalem they that were of the circumcision CONTENDED with him.

Then Peter told them just how it happened. He contended right back.

Acts 15:39---And the CONTENTION was so sharp between them, that they departed asunder one from the other: and so Barnabas took Mark, and sailed unto Cyprus; And Paul chose Silas, and departed, being recommended by the brethren unto the grace of God.

Here are two great men of God, Paul and Barnabas, arguing so hard with each other over Mark, that they separated from each other. But, as we see in the Word, this was the will of God; for Paul and Silas did a great work together.

Nehemiah 13:11---Then contended I with the rulers, Why is the house of God forsaken?

V17---Then I CONTENDED with the nobles of JUDAH, and said What evil thing is this that ye do, and profane the Sabbath day?

V25---And I CONTENDED with them, and cursed them, and smote certain of them, and plucked off their hair, and made them swear by God, saying, Ye shall not give your daughters unto their sons, nor take their daughters unto your sons, or for yourselves.  [wow.  Nahemiah, you sure are being a bad boy;  these people today will call you of the devil.]

Here, again in the OT. We find that men of God CONTENDED for what they knew to be true. In v 25---we find that Nehemiah even resorted to some little bit of violence over their marrying heathens.

So, I conclude from all this that it is not only all right, but also necessary for us to ‘argue�?for the faith once delivered to the saints.

By: Jo Smith

p.s.  Upon this message, I rest my case.  It is RIGHT to argur for the truth.  It is necessary.  Now let those you claim it is wrong, take the Word and prove it.

If you say it is wrong, then, all these men of God in the Word, were wrong and the Word is teaching us wrong stuff!



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 Message 2 of 6 in Discussion 
From: joieSent: 8/11/2005 10:21 PM
From: <NOBR>MSN NicknameClaudia5226</NOBR> Sent: 5/13/2005 7:27 AM
Hi there Jo, (and everyone)  I agree that there is nothing wrong with discussion, trying to persuade a person to see a point of veiw ect. and that it is encouraged in the bible. I,  for one, love a good debate.    But I think the key lies in maintaining respect and a level-headed, fair / reasonable attitude in  the discussion.and knowing when to walk away from it, (Titus 3:9) even if we feel we may be right in what we are trying to put across.
 
I find it useful to have a quick prayer / chat with God to invite him into my heart and to help me maintain a good attitude, because sometimes there are those could can be quite arrogant and just plain rude. And,  sometimes,  I may not be aware of my own shortcoming which mugh lead me to be unreasonable too.It just helps me. . Anyway, that's me for now.
 
Gods blessing in Jesus mane 
claudia

Reply
 Message 3 of 6 in Discussion 
From: joieSent: 8/11/2005 10:22 PM
From: joie Sent: 5/14/2005 10:49 PM
Hello, Claudia.
Thank you for your input.  I fully agree.  {and I certainly do the same,  write too fast and make mistakes, then send them with the errors.  It truly matters not.  Those of us who have a good attitude [lol] overlook it and know what you mean.
 
those who love to make trouble and criticize, sometimes love to point out the errors [as if they never make any]. again, lol.
 
I truely cannot spell worth a flip. But I get by.
 
There are VERY FEW people who have an 'open mind' to anything except what they have been brain-washed to believe.  They flat will never listen to anything different.  This is the cause for the trouble when a debate is in progress.  Most people that I speak with, take off and run at the very first statement.  They cannot take the truth.
 
They will not even try to defend their doctrine with the Word of God, for indeed they know it is not written.  Yet they still fully believe it, for their 'preacher' has drilled the lies into their head.
 
Only those who have an open mind, and is willing to sit down together and discuss the Word in a 'seeking' manner, and let the Word of God settle all questions, then and only then, will they become the true children of God.
 
Arguring is one of the best ways to get people into the truth.  By arguring, I mean putting forth your thoughts and backing them up with the Written Word of God.  I do NOT MEAN FUSSING AND FIGHTING.
 
God bless you, and I am so glad to see you here.
 
Jo

Reply
 Message 4 of 6 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameSearERICSent: 8/13/2005 2:49 PM
A intelligent and excellent post Claudia.
 
Eric


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Reply
 Message 5 of 6 in Discussion 
From: joieSent: 8/13/2005 4:32 PM
When it came to proving truth, the Apostles had no qualms about getting rough.  They even had heated argurments with each other..........
They certainly did not worry about being so 'nice' to workers of satan, who came in only to deceive and destroy the children of God.
 
I have proven their boldness and 'lack' of sweetness when they were moved on by God to rebuke these evil workers, in the verses I posted to the Sign in board.
 
Now Satan and HIS men are the ones who try to deceive little children of God into thinking they must be 'sweetie' and 'nice' and 'kind' to the snakes out there seeking to destroy our faith and salvation.  Don't fall into their trap, Claudia or anyone else.
 
Do not be afraid to call a devil a devil.  We must be viligent on guard to protect the littles ones who believe in JESUS.  We must take up that sword Jesus gave us and chop their 'heads' off.
 
Be as David of old;  he had no mercy upon that old Galiath.
Take the same attitude, for these 'snakes' will destroy your faith, and thereby your souls, if you be kind and sweet to them.
 
Chop their heads off!  Save the Children of God from their deception!  That is my job and I will do it with all my might.
 
Just because most folks have swallowed down Satan's vomit, of being at peace and kind and sweet to satan's army, has not taken me from my God-given job.
 
I will not be deterred.  I must give account to my God. for how I do my job and watch out for the sheep of God.  I wish to be faithful as Abel, in keeping the sheep of God.
 
Jo

Reply
 Message 6 of 6 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nickname®Larry_W_B_1©Sent: 8/14/2005 12:21 PM
Chop their heads off! The same way David did to the giant!!!!!!!! 

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