|
|
 |
|
Reply
| | From:  Freeborn551 (Original Message) | Sent: 10/15/2006 2:53 AM |
| Since the other rapture thread has gotten so long,, and so many other subjects have come into it, I want to do this part separately. This way we can all concentrate on this and study with the Word of God. *********** | And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. | | Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. | | Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, | | In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. | | For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. | | So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. |
Now Paul said here that the resurrection will take place at the LAST TRUMP: for the TRUMPET shall sound. Now that makes it clear that the LAST TRUMP IS ALSO THE TRUMPET. So the last trumpet it that seventh trumpet. Now here he is speaking exclusively of the RESURRECTION when we shall put on immortality. Remember, he said this resurrection of the just happens at that seventh, or last trump. Keep that in mind. ************* | But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. | | For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. | | For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. | | For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: | | Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. | | Wherefore comfort one another with these words. |
Now here Paul makes it very clear that the resurrection takes place FIRST. .....the dead in Christ shall rise FIRST.......then......(does not say how much later, only that it is after the resurrection of the dead Saints).........later.....we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.....and so shall we EVER be with the Lord. Now Notice that in 1Cor. 15:52. he said that after the resurrection of the saints into immortality, that we shall BE CHANGED. He brings it all into one thing of all of us putting on IMMORTALITY AND INCORRUPTION. That is the CHANGE. That is what took place when the dead were resurrected. But remember, they are raised FIRST, BEFORE WE ARE CHANGED. Then we are caught up with them into this immortality. *********** | And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. | | But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. | | Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. |
verse 4-- The people who had been killed for not taking the mark of the beast or his image, are resurrected here at this first resurrection. They lived when the worship of the beast was causing all who refused to be put to death. they were beheaded for refusing to worship this beast. But they died before that first resurrection....... Do any of you see what this is showing......clear as day......without any doubt? Wonder if you all are too blind to see this which is so clearly laid out here? These people were killed for refusing the worship of the beast and not taking his mark......yet they died BEFORE ANY RESURRECTION.......AND THAT FIRST RESURRECTION TOOK PLACE BEFORE ANY LIVING SAINTS ARE CHANGED. So put this with the rapture teaching. It could not fit any kind of way.......for they say the saints are raptured BEFORE any mark of the beast and such. Now don't forget this took place at that seventh trumpet...... so go read what all takes place BEFORE THAT LAST TRUMP! ********* | And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. | | These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth. | | And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed. | | These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will. | | And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them. | | And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. |
Now that is the eleventh chapter of Rev. He shows here that the two witnesses run their full course before that seventh trump! Does this fit that rapture teaching? I think not. They clearly state that the rapture happens before these two witnesses go back and teach 'israel'. don't they? Yet if you read this chapter closely you will see that this takes place between that sixth and seventh trumpet. | The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly. | | And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever |
that second woe is that sixth trumpet. that third woe is that seventh or last trumpet......notice what takes place under this seventh trumpet. the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord. | Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. | | And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. |
....the time of the dead.....that thou shouldest give reward unto THY servants and the saints and them that fear thy name................so this clearly is that first RESURRECTION of the Saints of God........which happens BEFORE THE LIVING SAINTS ARE CHANGED. Go back and compare 1Cor 15:52 with 1thes. 4 and you will see (if you have any understanding) that the words 'be changed' and 'caught up' are placed in the same words..meaning the same thing........so the 'catching up' means the change into immortality. Air is right here, where we are right now. If you think not.......then please be kind enough to show me where air is. How is any rapture going to happen before that seventh trumpet? no way. If so, then Paul had it all wrong.......for he said that RESURRECTION TAKES PLACE BEFORE THE CHANGING OF THE SAINTS. PEOPLE, YOU HAVE BEEN DUPED. | |
|
 First
Previous
2-11 of 11
Next
Last
|
Reply
| |
| How do you explain away the fact that those who were beheaded for refusing to worship that beast and his image, are in the first resurrection.......which must take place before any living Saints are CHANGED INTO IMMORTAL? Is Rev. 20:4&5 a lie also? | |
|
Reply
| |
| How do you explain away the fact that the beast fully ran its course BEFORE that first resurrection? How do you explain away the fact that the two witnesses fully ran their course BEFORE that first resurrection? According to that rapture lie, all of this is 'supposed' to take place AFTER the saints are stolen away from this earth. Where is any supporting Scripture that Jesus has to 'steal' his children and carry them away somewhere? | |
|
Reply
| |
| People here, members of this group, pay close attention to this. I do not want any of you children of God to be deceived by this deciever, remtg. These deceivers will stop at nothing to teach their lies. They will stoop to anything. Look here: remtg66 said this: trumpet, Strong's, No entry is found. That means that it is an added word by the interpreters.[remtg] ************** There are about 52 entries for the word 'trumpet' in the Strongs'. (hard to count them all, so tiny) What is this man trying to do here? The Strong's Greek number for this word 'trumpet' in Rev. is 4536. check it for yourself. It does not give any spiritual meaning for this word, as it does not for any words. It only gives the natural meaning for the English word used. You must find in Scripture the SPIRITUAL MEANINGS FOR WORDS. This is an outright lie here to try and cover up the FACT THAT THE WORD CLEARLY SHOWS THAT FIRST RESURRECTION TO HAPPEN AT THIS SEVENTH, OR LAST TRUMP, OR TRUMPET....SAME THING. | |
|
Reply
| |
| remtg is trying to say that the trump is not the trumpet..but watch what Paul said here: | In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. |
.....at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound.......now that clearly ties the trumpet and the trump together as the very same thing..that word 'for' ties this together.......just the word 'for' ties this together (and which Ray also denies) ......... | And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. | | For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, |
See, those Jews knew that these Gentiles had receive the very same Holy ghost that they had received.......how did they know......what were they going by?.....this......FOR they heard them speak with tongues.......they spoke in tongues when they received the Holy Ghost JUST AS THEY DID ON THE DAY OF PENTECOST.........IT IS THE SIGN OF RECEIVING THE HOLY GHOST.......ALL THESE DECEIVERS WANT TO TEAR DOWN THIS TRUTH........FOR IT PROVES.......they themselves are in denial of the Word of God.....they are the unbelievers.....for they reject this sign.......to the unbelievers.......that they refused when God spoke to them in other tongues......so they try to say that is not the sign.....but God said it is the sign. Those Jews knew the Gentiles receive the HG FOR they heard them speak in tongues. Anyone who denies this is calling the Word of God a lie. | |
|
Reply
| |
| From: Isaiah | Sent: 10/3/2005 7:44 PM | | I did a search on the word trumpet and this is what it came up with. Your search for trumpet resulted in: the Old Testament resulted in 51 Verses. Your search for trumpet resulted in:the New Testament resulted in 9 Verses | |
|
Reply
| |
| Remtg, I have never run into anyone who messes up Scripture as baddly as you do, to try and cover up your mistakes and error. Now there is not one word in the Strongs exaustive that says the word 'trumpet' is not in Scripture, or that it was just added or supplied by the interpreters. You made that LIE up. Now no one except someone who cannot read, could miss all the twisted and jumbled mess in your last few posts. [and you 'claim' you could hear truth and change.....hahaha] Then you ask for me to explain how it shows that those who were killed for refusing to worship the beast were in that first resurrection!!!!!!!! The word itself SAID THAT: (I explained it the first time.....just that you cannot 'hear'.) Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Can you read? It sure seems not. verse 4 said I saw the SOULS of them that were BEHEADED because they did not worship the beast and his image.......they were BEHEADED.....that proves they had DIED....surely you know they could not live after they were beheaded? Now it said these people LIVED AND REIGNED WITH Christ....this is the first resurrection.......does this have to be spelled out to you one tiny bit at a time? sure.....and then you still will NOT EVER ADMIT it.....guess the translators added these words also? Now if Paul said that resurrection takes place BEFORE anyone else is changed into immortal.........[got that]?...... and it said here that these people had been KILLED, for refusing to worship the BEAST........then they are in that first resurrection..........this PROVES THAT THE MARK OF THE BEAST RAN ITS COURSE .......BEFORE........ANY RESURRECTION OF THE JUST.....THAT FIRST RESURRECTION. (doesn't your rapture lie say the rapture takes place before this mark of the beast is in the land?) NOW PAUL SAID THIS TAKES PLACE........FIRST......BEFORE THE CHANGING OF THE LIVING SAINTS. HOW YOU GONNA DISPUTE THIS????????? SAY THE TRANSLATORS SUPPLIED ALL THESE WORDS?? THEN WHAT GOOD IS THE BIBLE??? (IN YOUR OPPINION?) | |
|
Reply
| |
| Doesn't the rapture 'lie' say that this is Jesus coming as a thief? I think that is what it says.....of course I know this is not true,,but still.....that is what 'they' say. So then in view of that, let's read this: | And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared. | | And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. | | For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty. | | Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame. | | And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon. | | And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done. |
Now this clearly places this 'coming as a thief here beween the sixth vial (the last of God's wrath), and the seventh vial, ....as still future tense......means it has NOT OCCURED AS OF YET...........DOWN BETWEEN THE SIXTH AND SEVENTH VIAL......AFTER ALL THE SEALS....ALL THE TRUMPETS.....AND SIX OF THE VIALS........Jesus is STILL saying,,,,,,,,,behold I COME (future tense) as a thief. Now how is this world could any sensible thinking person place THIS with that rapture teaching? No way! | |
|
Reply
| |
| For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: | | Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. |
The ..dead...in Christ...shall rise ......FIRST......then we shall be caught up with them...... We are then caught up into immortality with them....that is all this is saying.....but. those people who were DEAD IN CHRIST.....because of being beheaded for not worshipping the beast......are in this first resurrection......proving that beast time happened BEFORE WHAT YOU CALL A RAPTURE.....OR THE CHANGING OF THE LIVING SAINTS......(NOW THAT IS THE TRUTH OF IT) *********** Did you ever read on into the fifth chapter? if not, here it is: | But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. | | For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. | | For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. | | But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. | | Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. |
still speaking of the events in chapter four...you know that the DAY OF THE LORD (when he pours out his wrath) comes AS A THIEF in the NIGHT.. for when THEY say peace and safety, then sudden DESTRUCION comes on them.......so those upon whom he comes as a THIEF will be DESTROYED....not carried off to heaven.....how is it that you read the Word 56 times and MISSED SOMETHING THIS SIMPLE AND CLEARLY STATED? BUT YOU, BRETHERN (CHRISTIANS) ..ARE NOT IN DARKNESS....THAT THAT DAY SHOULD OVERTAKE ......YOU.....AS A ...THIEF. Ye are children of light and day.....we are not of the night.......so those of the night are the ones he comes on as a THIEF. Now how does Strongs get you out of this? Is not this SCRIPTURE PROVING THAT RAPTURE TEACHING A ......LIE? Sure it is.......at least to someone who can READ AND CONCENTRATE MORE THAN TWO LINES AT A TIME. why is 'rapture' not in Strongs'? | |
|
Reply
| |
| Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. |
Do you think Jesus comes back actually SITTING on a natural, or atmospheric cloud? I mean after all, anyone with any sense at all knows they are just fine mist of water, no substance at all.......but anyway,, is this how you see it? | And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle. |
Is that what you go by? He is 'sitting' on a white cloud? It that a cloud like we look up and see above us? Is this the carnality you see in the word of God? If so, then how about this? | And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. |
Now here we have Jesus sitting on a white HORSE>>>so what do you make of this? Is it two different Jesus' or two different comings..........or is something mixed up here??? is it a cloud or a horse? Or maybe both......both symbols of something SPIRITUAL which your carnal mind cannot grasp? Now I say that is the answer. | And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. |
Now when you read this, if you ever do, do you see Jesus actually naturally wearing a vesture, or jacket which is dripping with actual blood? do you really? | And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. |
Now we have a whole army coming out of heaven riding on white horses........so do you actually see them as coming down from up above us......riding a great herd of horses? do you really??? | And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. |
Now do you see an actual SWORD coming out of Jesus' mouth killing the nations? Now remember this SWORD cannot be a SYMBOL OF SOMETHING SPIRITUAL......IT MUST BE A LITERAL SWORD COMING OUT OF JESUS' MOUTH. and you call symbols vomit? I say you need to meet the Saviour.....repent of your sins...and turn to Christ and let him fill you with truth.....you have none. | |
|
Reply
| |
Lets see what the clouds and horses are, which Jesus returns upon. Let the Scripture answer this. Then if any of you, who think it is natural, water clouds, can show me one verse of Scripture proving this, then do it. If not, accept this Scripture proof that it is not that kind of CLOUD.
| And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord COMETH WITH ten thousands of his SAINTS, |
| And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his MIGHTY ANGELS, |
| When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day. |
|
|
|
First
Previous
2-11 of 11
Next
Last
|
|
|
Free Forum Hosting
Important Announcement
Return to Rapture?
