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Salvation : Speaking in tongues
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 Message 1 of 28 in Discussion 
From: joie  (Original Message)Sent: 9/3/2005 1:25 AM
From: joie  (Original Message) Sent: 11/6/2003 3:32 PM

Speaking In Tongues

Many do not understand the gift of tongues; even those how have experienced this. Because they do not study the Word enough to receive the knowledge of it.

There is more than one manifestation of this gift. The tongues spoken on the day of Pentecost, in the upper room was not the same that was later to the great crowd of people of all languages there.

People overlook that fact that in that upper room, where they received the Holy Ghost, there was no one present who did not speak the same language. That speaking in tongues was not the same gift manifested later to that crowd of milti-languaged people.

So the speaking in tongues in the upper room was not the same. This was the tongue given to people when they first are baptized with the Holy Ghost. It is a heavenly language; not an earthly language.

It had no need for interpretation. There is not one word said there about it having to be interpreted. Nor that it was interpreted. 1Cor. 14:2-9--- For space, I will not quote all of this, read it. V2---For he that speaketh in an unknown (now get that: an UNKNOWN TONGUE). (This is not an earthly language; if it were, it would not be an unknown tongue). See people just did not really get the true revelation of the Word.

V2----For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh NOT unto MEN, but unto GOD: for NO MAN (no one anywhere, so it is not an earthly language)----understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. (See they were not speaking to men).

V3--But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.

V4---He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.

Then Paul goes on to say that in the church we should interpret ate it for the sake of edification of the church. But, notice this is not the same thing that happened on the Day of Pentecost, in the upper room.

That was not given to edify any church. The church was not even in existence at that time. That was only for them personally. That is the same thing happens when one is filled with the Baptism of the Holy Ghost. This is only for that individual; not for the edification of the church.

Messages given in tongues in the church should be interpreted. That is what Paul is speaking of in verse 9.

V18--I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all; yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.

Here he is speaking of teaching in the church.

The other is in his private devotion. But, he is not saying we can't speak in tongues in the church. It should be kept back unless someone can interpret ate it; for the sake of edifying the church. That was not the case on the Day of Pentecost. It is not the same thing.

This is the same self-sacrificing nature shown in Paul when he said I could wish myself accursed from Christ for my Kinsmen sake. I personally have never been able to say that.

He was willing to hold back his own blessing of speaking in tongues in the church for the sake of teaching others.

V22--Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not. This is saying that the gift of giving out a message in the church and the interpretation is for a sign to the unbelievers in the midst. So this is not what happened in the upper room.

There were no unbelievers there. That was not the same working of the spirit. That tongues was the evidence of being filled with the Spirit. It is the fulfillment of Isaiah 28:11,12---For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people. To whom he said, This is the REST wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest. Remember Jesus said come unto me all ye that are weary and I will give you rest to your souls.

This is what he meant. This is the New Testament REST. Not a 7th day Sabbath.

So, see, this initial speaking in tongues when the Holy Ghost comes in, is this prophesied in Isaiah. The rest for our souls. So it is not a matter of speaking in another earthly language for the sake of teaching other

Nationality folks the message, as Peter did to that crowd. That crowd was not in that upper room. They did not speak in all those earthly languages in that upper room. They were speaking in that unknown (heavenly) language. It needs no interpretation.

Notice, also, in Acts 10:44-46--When Cornelius and his friends received the Holy Ghost it said they spoke in tongues, but not one word is said about it being interpreted. It was not that kind of gift being manifested. This was just for them.

Again, Acts 19:1-6--Paul met some believers (already believed, mind you) yet they did not have the Holy Ghost. Paul laid hands on them (after baptizing them in the name of Jesus) and they were filled with the Holy Ghost and spoke in tongues and prophesied. Not one word is said about this being interpreted. For there was no need for it. It was not a matter of teaching to people of another language. It was just for their own edification.

People that do not know of the Baptism of the Holy Ghost, who think only believing gets one saved, have always used this of needing to be

Interpreted, to say speaking in tongues at the initial filling is not right. But, it is because they did not know how to discern the difference in speaking for ones own edification and speaking for the edification of others.

All of you Pentecostals come to understand this so you can teach it to the unbelievers in what we have from God. And you others, study this to learn the truth; quit just listening to some church doctrine. It will not save you. You must believe the Scriptures, not a church.

Go back and re-read the message: Go back to the Day of Pentecost: there were only 120 people there. They all spake the same language. There was no miracle here of others 'hearing' them in a different language. This is the first out-pouring of the Baptism of the Holy Ghost.

They spake in the heavenly, unknown tongue; which NO MAN understands; it is not an earthly language.

Now, when the other occurrence happened; the one where all those people heard them speak in all their own tongue, this was NOT the Baptism; this was Peter preaching, they each heard in a different tongue. But, this was NOT the Baptism of the Holy Ghost. See Peter had already received it, in the upper room.

That great crowd of people was NOT in that upper room. This is where most people have missed seeing the truth. False churches and even sincere, misled people have taken this to believe that they did not have to speak in tongues as evidence of receiving the Holy Ghost.

But, the Holy Ghost MUST utter His Words to pronounce that He has taken up His abode with a person.

I, have seen people that did not seek to speak in tongues; did not believe in this; did not desire this; they was not, as you said, 'worrying' about this.

But, when the Holy Ghost came in, He did very much utter a full message in the unknown tongue. They had absolutely NO CONTROL over this matter; HE did it.

So, see, even if one does not even believe in speaking in tongues, when the Baptism of the Holy Ghost comes, He will utter His words; It is not you speaking; but Him.

I do say and believe with my whole heart, that one will, without exception, speak in tongues when you receive the Baptism. For, if not, then the Holy Ghost has spoken; He has not filled your 'temple'.

And why would one not desire this great experience? Why try to evade it? Only because false teachers have downgraded it so much and even poked mockery at this. But, be not deceived, God is not mocked.

Our nation is in trouble right now because of all this 'mocking' of the things of God.

The gifts of the spirit, spoken of by Paul in Corinthians, are not the Baptism of the Holy Ghost. They are governed; but the Baptism of the Holy Ghost is NOT governed.

Hope you will sincerely study these Scriptures; pray and let God open this up to you.

Isa. 28:9- whom shall he teach knowledge? And whom shall he make to understand doctrine? Them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.

V11---For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.

V12--To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to REST; and this is the refreshing yet they would NOT hear.

V13---But the word of the LORD was unto them (those who would not hear)--precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little that they might go, and FALL BACKWARD, AND BE BROKEN, AND SNARED, AND TAKEN.

V14---Wherefore hear the word of the LORD, ye SCORNFUL men, that RULE this people which is in Jerusalem. (The scornful men, were the OT rulers who refused the NT rest of Holy Ghost: tongues)

V15--Because ye have said, we have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under false hood have we hid ourselves:

V16--Therefore thus saith the Lord God, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.

I conclude from this Scripture, that it is a dangerous thing to reject the stammering lips rest of Jesus. You will end up in the 'covenant with death, and hell, -the two riders of the fourth horse in Rev.

By: Jo Smith


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Reply
 Message 14 of 28 in Discussion 
From: joieSent: 9/3/2005 1:56 AM
From: <NOBR>MSN NicknameLolady·</NOBR> Sent: 11/6/2003 9:01 PM
Isaiah, Who is the "He" that you are referring to? LL

 

From: Isaiah

Sent: 11/6/2003 5:53 PM
HE BETTER SEEK THE MESSAGE THAT WAS PREACHED IN THE BOOK OF ACTS. He better ask the same thing that the people did? What must I BE TO BE SAVE? 
 
What was told to them? Was it to Keep the Sabbath day law? nope but to ............. 
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Reply
 Message 15 of 28 in Discussion 
From: joieSent: 9/3/2005 1:59 AM
From: joie Sent: 11/6/2003 9:05 PM
Glory to our Holy  Eternal God for the marvelous work He has accomplished here tonight.
 
Do you realize,  Lolady, Isaiah, and I have all three been here at the very same time rebuking this evil lie against His Holy Truth?
 
I did not go look back at all between my posts until just now.  I did not know Lolady nor Isaiah were here also working in this 'vinyard'.
 
Shew.  Glory.  I feel  [ and I am not ashamed to FEEL GOD'S GLORY!  I LOVE IT!  I SHOUT IT TO THE WHOLE WORLD;  I LOVE TO   FEEL GOD'S GLORY IN MY SOUL}  And I feel it right now, bearing WITNESS with what He just showed me........
 
Which is this:  God requires two or three [see, at the most three] witnesses to establish a truth.  Now here God had all three of us in here at the very same time fighting with SURE WORD, this lie of satan against this Holy Truth of the Eternal God.
 
God be blessed and praised forever.  Three true sheep of God here at the very same time each defending with pure word the Word of God against this enemy of all truth.
 
mr Butler, you are in defiance of the Eternal God.  You had better repent and seek forgiveness for your evil lies you have brought here to try to deceive the true Sheep of God.
 
You are full of evil lies and rebellion against God.  You are guilty of teaching REBELLION AGAINST THE SURE TRUTH OF GOD'S HOLY WORD AND GOD'S HOLY SALVATION.
 
I rebuke you in the name of Jesus Christ. Repent or your life will be filled with God's Wrath.
 
Jo, Lolady and Isaiah,  three witnesses against your lies.

Reply
 Message 16 of 28 in Discussion 
From: joieSent: 9/3/2005 2:01 AM
From: Isaiah Sent: 11/6/2003 9:08 PM
The he is Randall-E-Butler alone with his partner Doug Batchelor who are teaching against the speaking in tongues. 

Reply
 Message 17 of 28 in Discussion 
From: joieSent: 9/3/2005 2:02 AM
From: Isaiah Sent: 11/6/2003 9:18 PM

On the Day of Pentecost, all that was in the upper room, all those who were filled with the Holy Ghost spoke with tongues as the Spirit gave utterance.

They did not preach the gospel in several languages for the benefit of the hearers, for there was one gospel message preached that day-by Peter, who spoke in a language everyone could understand.


Reply
 Message 18 of 28 in Discussion 
From: IsaiahSent: 9/3/2005 10:54 AM

According to Peter, this experience fulfilled the prophecy of Joel: "And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream , your young men shall see visions: and also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit" (Joel 2:28_29).

In Samaria, many people were filled with the Holy Ghost when Peter and John laid hands on them in prayer. Apparently, they spoke with tongues, because Simon the sorcerer saw evidence that made him know they had received the Holy Ghost. The evidence was so remarkable that he offered the apostles money to buy the gift of bestowing the Holy Ghost on others through the laying on of his hands (Acts 8:14-19).

Acts 10 tells of Peter's preaching the gospel in the home of Cornelius, an Italian soldier. "While Peter yet spoke these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as come with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God" (Acts 10:44-46).

Finally, Acts 19:1-7 tells us that twelve disciples of John the Baptist were filled with the Holy Ghost and spoke with tongues.

Will you be among those who dare to believed God, who dare to yield completely to Him? "The promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call " (Acts 2:39).

 


Reply
 Message 19 of 28 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameYehudMarieSent: 9/3/2005 1:35 PM
I have a question for Joie and Isaiah...(jazz please do not answer me..I do not need your confusion today or any other day)  I was very young when I received the gift of tounges..It was at bible camp...After I had been babtized later that night at service......But three yrs ago I received what I believe to be the true tounges..this was after I rededicated my life to Christ..It hit me in my own home during prayer..Tounges only seem to hit me when I am in Intersession with or for someone else...And I only have a few words repeated over and over...In other words I am not fluent...(sorry my spelling is gruff)..Is this normal or is it something that will grow as my spirit man grows?
 
Oh by the way jazz before you even think on telling me that God didnt give me these words..I want you to know that I have seen a child come out of choking and many other miricals when The holy Spirit has Taken over my tounge to cry out to Father...

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Sent: 9/3/2005 5:47 PM
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Sent: 9/3/2005 6:07 PM
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Sent: 9/3/2005 6:13 PM
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Sent: 9/3/2005 6:27 PM
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 Message 24 of 28 in Discussion 
From: joieSent: 9/3/2005 6:34 PM
One of us widened the thread too much.  I am trying to find which one did it.  so I deleted your answer, Jazz.  I have it copied and will re-post it here, since it was not the one to widen the thread.  It must have been one of mine....though I do not know how it did it.
 
I will keep trying go remove the 'offending' post, for I do hate for the threads to be too wide.
Here is your thinggie to Jodi:
 

From: <NOBR>MSN Nicknamejazz8787</NOBR> Sent: 9/3/2005 1:07 PM
From: Talitha_koumi in response to Message 18 Sent: 9/3/2005 12:35 PM
(jazz please do not answer me..I do not need your confusion today I received what I believe to be the true tounges..It hit me.
Tounges only seem to hit me

In other words I am not fluent...

Oh by the way jazz before you even think on telling me that God didnt give me these words..I want you to know that I have seen a child come out of choking and many other miricals when The holy Spirit has Taken over my tounge to cry out to Father...


hi talitha. i must stay on your mind. u mentioned me twice in your post.

firstly i didnt know tongues "hit" us. that could be serious bruising.


on the "fluent" part read acts 2 and see if the people had a concern about "fluent" u dont have to make up your mind. let the bible make up your mind for u.

u make mention of "true" tongues. question is...do U believe u did a "false" tongues? and if u did a "false" tongues perhaps WHO did those tongues come from?

children choke. thats rather common. and its usually from getting something caught in their airway. they are not as good at swallowing as adults are. or when they are toddlers they put nearly anything in their mouths. seeing something different and going for the mouth is a natural response for a child. most toddlers that die usually die in their sleep or some freak accident like drowning, eating something poison or god have mercy their parents kill them. children NORMALLY dont die from choking.

well....since u couldnt help but refer to me. i RESPONDED but i didnt ANSWER.

Reply
 Message 25 of 28 in Discussion 
From: IsaiahSent: 9/4/2005 1:21 PM
And I only have a few words repeated over and over...In other words I am not fluent ( Talitha_koumi)

Talitha_koumi, Do not worry about your speaking in  tongues being 'fluent', remember this is a heavenly language from God.. The speaking in tongues is as the spirit gives the utterance. Even though you may be the one speaking, this is from God.

I never see in the book of Corinthians were Paul is talking about tongues that he ever said that it had to be a 'fluent'  language.  Neither do I see anything about a 'fluent' speech in the book of Acts. If it was supposed to be fluent then I am sure that it would be found in the book.

Don't let  Satan try to tell you, and he will, that speaking in  tongues has to be 'fluent'.  He does not like anyone speaking in  tongues, because it is a heavenly  language as  the spirit gives the utterance, and he cannot understand what is going on. Never let anyone tell  you that it has to be 'fluent'

By speaking in tongues, we are magnifying the Lord.

Magnifying meaning...

Definition
  1. to make great, magnify
    1. metaph. to make conspicuous
  2. to deem or declare great
    1. to esteem highly, to extol, laud, celebrate
  3. to get glory and praise

See, when we are speaking in tongues we are giving God the glory and praise.  We are magnifying the Lord. Just let God have his way and then the Glory roll

Paul said in Corinthians that I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all. I see nowhere that he said that I speak more 'fluent' tongues that you all. 

Also I see where you said that you were baptized.  May I ask as Paul did to the Corinthians,  'Unto what then were ye baptized'? Was it as Peter said in the book of Acts? That we are to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of our sins and also as Paul said to the Corinthians that they should be baptized in the name of Lord Jesus. 

There is no other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. 


Reply
 Message 26 of 28 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameYehudMarieSent: 9/4/2005 2:23 PM
Yes Brother Isaiah...I was Babtized in The name of our Lord, Jesus Christ for the remission of my sins...By my own Choice...Gods hand has been upon my life since the very day I was Conceived in my mothers womb..I know this because..when My mother Got pregnant with me..she was in an aweful state...I do not know what she was thinking..she really never went into that part..But she told me God spoke to her and said..How dare you lay your frustrations on this unborn Child...I remember sitting in my room copying scriptures out of my bible..even when I was in my teenage rebelliose years...I always knew he was still with me......This is the only thing I am convinced of..He is with me..I say that because so many refuse to have a personall relationship with God...
 
Well i am off this wonderful day to sit outside a bit and watch Nature...Everyone here is still sleeping..except for one of my sons who is playing with our onery Kitten...God bless you and Joie and All here...Much Love..Jodi

Reply
 Message 27 of 28 in Discussion 
From: joieSent: 9/4/2005 7:34 PM
Jodi,  I love your testimony, girlie.  I knew I felt that kindred spirit in you.  You sound so much like myself.  I have always known that God was with me, as far back as I can remember, which is four years old.
 
I am sure He was with me before that also.  I find God's presence so much out in nature.  I love to feel the sweet breezes.  It always seems to me that God is caressing me then.
 
I can stop and just think on Him and enter into the Spirit realm.  I could do this as a child, which is one reason I loved to go off alone.  I would sit and commune with My God and He with me.
 
I have finished and posted that message on the 'Gift of Tongues'.  I hope you have time to study it real good.  God gave me some astonishing revelation as I worked on this message.   Wow. I myself had no idea how important and great this gift is.
 
I am so thankful He has allowed me to become able to do this almost anytime I am willing to worship a little bit.  It is so glorious.
 
Many nights after I shut this C. down, I will raise my hands to worship, and the Spirit will come on me and I just begin immediately to speak in tongues.  Sometimes it goes on a long time.
 
Love to you,
keep growing,
Jo

Reply
 Message 28 of 28 in Discussion 
From: IsaiahSent: 9/5/2005 1:11 AM
Thanks jodie for that wonderful testimony. I enjoyed it.
Seems like God had his hands on all three of us from youth. My mama said I used to stand in front of the mirrow and preach some good messages when I was a yung boy. The next door neighbor told my mama that it looked like it was real and to that my mama replied, it is real to him. 
 
Wonder if jazzy has had a experience like this?

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