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Salvation : Tribulation Not Worldwide
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 Message 1 of 9 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameTweety134  (Original Message)Sent: 8/5/2006 2:00 AM
I post this here because I study the end times. Yes I believe that we are at the beginning of the end. Many people do not in the Rapture or Tribulation. What I will post here is one of many teachings that Finis J. Dake has written about in the KJV.
I learned something from this first post as I was typing it out. That people will have the name of God on their foreheads also. When people have spoken of the mark on a person's forehead everyone thinks its that 666 number. Well we will have God's name on our foreheads. Amen to that! If there are any comments or questions, please post them. Dake has many notes, and he has many scriptural references. So I will be slow in posting the second part. I am still typing it out. So please bear with me. God Bless. Tweety
 
 

Tribulation Not Worldwide

Notes on Rev 6:8-Finis J. Dake-Dake Publishing

For this I will put in all scriptures in italics underneath the statement. *Dakes commentary on each word that is underlined

1. The first 4 seals apply only to a 4th part of the earth. (Rev 6:8)

And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

2. The martyrdom of the saints in Rev.6:9-11 is primarily inside the Roman Empire territory where the great whore in Rev 17 dominates the 10 kings.

Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the alter the souls of them that were slain for the Word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice saying, "How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth"?

Rev 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season. until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fullfilled.

3. The 144,000 Jews of Rev 7:1-8 are sealed from the nation of Israel in Palestine, for the women (national Israel) brings forth the man-child (Rev.12). Since the nation is not made up of all the Jews still scattered, then the whole prophecy centers around Palestine.

Rev 7:1 And *after these things I saw **four angels standing on the ***four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.

* Rev 7 is the 1 parenthetical passage, It is inserted between the 6th and 7th seals and contains explanatory matter about which transpire from the 6th seal through the rest of the week.

** These are the first 4 trumpet judgment angels who are commanded not to blow their trumpets bringing the judgments until the 144,000 Jews are sealed or marked for protection to go through these judgments (Rev 7:1-3) The 144,000 are sealed then, before the 7 trumpet judgments.

***  Meaning the 4 directions of the earth.

Rev 7:2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, *having the seal of the living God; and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to who it was given to hurt the earth and the sea.

* This is simply having the name of God stamped or written in the forehead (Rev 14:1)

Rev 7:3 Saying, *Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the **servants of our God in their foreheads.

*For these plagues on earth, see Rev 8:7-11

**  The 144,000 are not servants when the rapture takes place in Rev.4:1, for all in Christ at that time will be translated (1Th.4:16, 1Cor.15:23).  They will be saved after the rapture in the revival predicted in Acts 2:16-21.  They are to be saved and to become servants of God by the time they are sealed. This is why they have God's name written on them. (v.3:14:1).

A Literal Mark Because:

1. This is plainly stated in verse 3:, Rev 14:1.

2. It is an object of sight, for direction is given to the first 4 trumpet judgment angels not to execute their judgments until they are sealed in the forehead. (verse 3:, Rev 8:7-12)

3. Special direction is given to the 5th and 6th judgment angels not to hurt the 144,000 (Rev 9:4).

4. The mark of the beast is literal (Rev 13:16-18, Rev 14:9 Rev 20:4), and so this must be (Rev 14:1).

5. It is the name of God in the forehead (v 3; Rev.14:1)

6. Literal names will be branded on the overcomers (Rev. 3:12, Rev 22:4), and this indicates that the name of God on the 144,000 will also be literal (Rev.14:1)

Rev 7:4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed, *an hundred and forty and four thousand **of ***all the tribes of the children of Israel.

*Just as God reserved 7,000 men to Himself in Elijah's day, so He is going to reserve 144,000 Jews to Himself in the first 3 1/2 years of Daniel's 70th week. (v. 1-8).

** What could be more clearer than this?------that the 144,000 are from the 12 of the 13 tribes of Israel, not Gentiles, They are not part of the church, for the church is raptured before this time, in Rev 4:1. Nor could they be Jews before the rapture or in any other period outside of the first half of the last 7 years of this age.

*** See Why Dan Not Sealed.

Rev 7:5 Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.

Rev 7:6 Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nepthalim were sealed twelve thousand.  Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.

Rev 7:7 Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe *of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.

Rev 7:8 Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph  were sealed twelve thousand. **Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.

* This tribe is not ordinarily listed with the 12 tribes of Israel, being the ministers of the nation, but in this case Dan is left out because none of that tribe have yet turned to God in the revival saving the 144,000.

** The fact that 12,000 out of 12 of the 13 tribes of Israel are mentioned as being saved and as being servants of God during these 3 1/2 years of Daniel's 70th week, proves that they are all Jews and not Gentiles. The time of the fulfilled is equally proof that they are all alive at the same time, being saved in a short while after the rapture of the church in Rev 4:1 (Rev 7:1-8, Rev 14:1-5).  They are protected through the trumpets judgments (verse 2-3, Rev 9:4), and will be translated as the manchild of Rev. 12:5, after which they are seen in heaven- in Rev.14:1-5, which shows that the 144,000 have been translated and what they are doing in heaven. See notes Rev 12:5, Rev 14:1-5.



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 Message 2 of 9 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn22Sent: 8/5/2006 2:56 AM
Dear Tweety,
I thank you for posting this for us.  I have read it all.  I will take it slowly and go into one part at a time.  it will be tedious work, so please bear with me and pray for me that I may give out God's Word in truth and righeousness, for the good of His Sheep.
 
Now I am going to start this discussion with:
 

~ Who are the Jews? ~

Romans 2:28, 29- For he is NOT a JEW which is one OUTWARDLY; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the FLESH:

But he IS a JEW, which is one INWARDLY; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Read chapter 3- it tells how we are not justified by the law (OT) but by grace through Jesus. So to ever go back to the OT at any point would be to go back to the law, away from grace. The ‘nation' of Israel is strictly OT and God will never go back to it.

Romans 9:6-8:Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect, For they ARE NOT all Israel, which are of Israel:

V7-Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

V8-That is, they, which are the CHILDREN OF THE FLESH, these are NOT the children of God: But the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

V24-Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles. As he saith also in Osee, I will call them MY PEOPLE which were NOT my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved. [ See here that he included BOTH Jews and Gentiles as His people.]

V26-And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.

Rom.10: 12-For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

Tweety, this is the first and biggest mistake almost everyone makes.  They are still trying to separate the Jews from the Christians.  Paul said there is NO DIFFERENCE between the Jew and the Greek.

He took of the TWAIN  (both)  and made ONE NEW MAN,  THE CHRISTIANS.

God will never separate what Jesus joined together.  It is NOT in the flesh.  It is in the Spirit.

Those fleshly people, whom the world calls  'jews' are not the people of God.  WE ARE.  We who are washed in the blood of Jesus are the Jews of God.

Until people get this right, everything else will be wrong in their minds.

<NOBR>Ga 3:29</NOBR> And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and HEIRS according to the promise.


See that the promised seed which is heirs of the promises of God are those who belong to Christ.  = the Christians.

Reply
 Message 3 of 9 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn22Sent: 8/5/2006 3:11 AM

Gal.2: 8-For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles. So, God was working here with both peoples. He had not cast away the Jews.

V16-for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.  Gal 3:9-So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

V22-But the scripture hath concluded ALL under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

V26-For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

V27-For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

V28-There is neither JEW NOR GREEK, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are ALL ONE in Christ Jesus.

V29-And IF YE BE CHRIST’S THEN ARE YE ABRAHAM’S SEED, and heirs according to the promise.

Now, don’t you see that he is saying all Christians are Israelites? All Christians are Abraham’s Seed?

Gal. 4:22-31-Here Paul shows that the two sons of Abraham represent the two covenants, law and grace, the NT and the OT. [To save space you read this.]

V25-This Agar is mount Sinai (the Law) which gendereth to bondage and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

In other words, the Jerusalem over in the East, the natural people, are the bond child.

V26-But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. (The church) So, to dote on the natural Jerusalem is to put that bond child (law) above the free (the New Jerusalem).

V28-Now we, brethren, (The True Church) as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

So he said the church is the free children of promise.

V30-What saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.

So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

He is speaking to his brethren the Church, not the natural Israelites.

Gal.5: 2-Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.

V4-Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Eph. 2:12-22:But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. (This is speaking of the Gentiles, who are now the people of God.)

For he is our peace, who hath made BOTH ONE, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us,

Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself OF TWAIN ONE NEW MAN, so making peace;  (so then, to pick back up a nation of natural folks, falsly called Jews, would be to tear down this new man.)

And that he might reconcile BOTH unto God in ONE BODY by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.

V18-For through him WE BOTH have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

V19-Now therefore YE ARE NO MORE STRANGERS AND FOREIGNERS, but fellow citizens with the saints, and of the HOUSEHOLD OF GOD;

V20-And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

In whom ALL the building fitly framed TOGETHER groweth unto AN HOLY TEMPLE IN THE Lord;

WHOM YE ALSO ARE BUILDED together FOR AN HABITATION OF GOD THROUGH THE SPIRIT.

This proves that both the Jews and the Gentiles became one new man = the Church. See the above: that new man is the Holy Temple, the habitation of God. On the day of Pentecost, at the birth of the Church, the first ones in were all Jews. The next 3000 were all Jews. The next 5000 were all Jews. See. God did not cut them off. That is the fulfilled promise to regather them.

 He closed off the OT. But, then he grafted them back into the good Olive Tree, which is Jesus. He is the root of that tree. Then he brought in the first Gentiles with Cornelius’s household and grafted them into the good Olive Tree; thus making them both one.

People, they will forever be one. God will never go back and separate them again. Why would he? That would be to do away with the finished work of Jesus, to make us both one, thus making peace.

Read in Hebrews.  we are told that all the OT things: law, priesthood, prophets, Sabbaths, everything to do with it, was only types and shadows of the good heavenly things to come, meaning the Church. So, why would he go back to the types and shadows when he has the thing he wanted all the time, the Mount Zion, the true Church of God, blood bought, blood washed, Holy Ghost filled Church?

 I tell you, it is just not true. God always does a NEW thing. He never said he would go back and do an old thing. God is not like that. He was finished with the nation of Israel forever. Why put them aside, bring in a Church, then put the Church aside, and go back to the nation of Israel? No! God will never do that thing. We are all together, a Holy Temple of God.

The Christians, The Church, are the Zion which God loved more than all the dwellings of Jacob. This is the Holy Jerusalem. He will not go back to the bond child. Put your love and loyalty to the true people of God, the Christians.

God cleansed them by the blood of Jesus. There is no other way. The natural Jews have to come in through Jesus just as we do. They will never get in any other way. There is no other way. They must come in and be part of the Church if they want to get to God. The Word is very clear on this. After they come in by faith in Jesus, they become part of the Church, the Spiritual Jews or Israel. They are not separated now and they never will be separated again. Jesus did a finished work when he took of the twain [Jews and Gentiles] and made one new man, the Church.

God is never going to undo this finished work and start over again with that group of rebellious natural Jews. God sees the people of the world as all one and the same. God only used those twelve tribes of Israel to show the things which are and will be. God said he was never pleased with that group of people, for they were never of faith. Without faith is it impossible to please God.


Reply
 Message 4 of 9 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn22Sent: 8/5/2006 3:49 AM
Tweety,  I am placing some of my messages, which were way back,  on the special boards I set up for them.  I first post my messages on the General, so more people will see them.
I am supposed to go back later and move them to the special boards.  But I have not had time to do any of this lately.
 
Some of the messages, which have things I need for this discussion, were way back.  I am moving them up so they will be on the special boards, and so I can copy from them for this discussion.  You may study the full messages,  if you have time.  Or just the parts I will be using in this discussion. 
 
It will take a lot of time and patience to study this subject out as it should be.  I also am trying to work with Stephen on other subjects.  So please just bear with me,  as I will take some time to address all of this message.
 
Next week I will be going back to work, and that will limit my time here.  But continue to post and pray for me.
 
I am going to try now to show you what the seal of God is and what the 144,000 sealed Saints are.  Believe me,  It is not a literal number, nor is it fleshly jews.  This is the natural, carnal interpretation I told you people always use on God's Word.
 
(question:  where did that thing about 13 tribes of Israel come from?  I have never heard or read about anything except 12 tribes.)
In order to keep this thread from moving to back pages too soon, I will just go ahead and place my first thing on the seal here:

Rev 7:1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. 7:2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, 7:3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. 7:4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

Now the angel is standing on the earth. Another angel is ascending from the east having the SEAL of the living God. So this occurrence is on this earth, not heaven. Now what is the seal of God?

Eph 1:12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Eph 1, is speaking of the Christians in the early church, that of Ephesus. They were the ones who first trusted in Christ. So this goes all the way back to those first Christians, who received the seal of the Holy Spirit of Promise, the Holy Ghost.

Eph 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

Now both of those verses say this sealing is our earnest until the day of redemption of the body, which is the resurrection. So we were sealed in this life. This is speaking of those in the first witness, the early Apostolic Church which was born at Pentecost.

2Tim2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

So this shows that the apostles, the foundation of the House of God, had this SEAL.


Reply
 Message 5 of 9 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn22Sent: 8/5/2006 3:52 AM

Rev 14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads. 14:2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps: 14:3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

Re 14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

Now notice that these 144,000 standing with the Lamb on the Mount Sion [the true Church of God] are the same ones who were sealed in that 7th chapter. But notice that it calls them the FIRSTFRUITS unto God and the Lamb. So, who were the firstfruits to God? Let the Word of God tell us. God said to let the Word of God be true and every man’s word a lie. So we better all go by the Word of God, not some man’s ideas.

Rom 8:21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 8:22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body. Now here Paul said that they have the firstfruits of the Spirit, and are waiting for the adoption, which is the redemption of our body. See how this fits exactly what he said in Ephesians, that we have the seal which is our earnest until the redemption of the body?

Rom16:5 Likewise greet the church that is in their house. Salute my wellbeloved Epaenetus, who is the firstfruits of Achaia unto Christ.

This shows that those early Christians were the firstfruits.

1Cor 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

1Cor 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 16:15 I beseech you, brethren, (ye know the house of Stephanas, that it is the firstfruits of Achaia, and that they have addicted themselves to the ministry of the saints,)

Jas 1:18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

Now all of the above verses prove beyond a doubt that the firstfruits unto God was that early church. That is the ones who were virgins to God. They were not defiled with the whorish church, that filthy woman. These [men and women] were the virgins to God, for they never followed idols nor the whore church’s lies. The number, 144,000, does not mean NUMBERS. It is not speaking of a certain number of people. The word ‘thousand�?did not have a numerical meaning at first.


Reply
 Message 6 of 9 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn22Sent: 8/5/2006 3:53 AM

These ‘numbers�?in Scripture all have Spiritual meanings, as does words such as river, sheep, tree, hail, snow, clouds, air, mountain, hills, etc. Until you see and understand these spiritual terms, as such, you will never understand any truth and will always wonder around in the darkness of your carnal, blinded mind.

The study of these ‘number words�?is a very interesting and enlightening adventure.

Start with the word thousand. Go into the Strong’s Hebrew # 505. It says it comes from # 504 and 502. Now #502--a prim. root, to associate with; hence to learn (and caus. to teach ):-learn, teach, utter.

Now this is powerful stuff. So the word ‘thousand�?at first meant to teach, to learn, and to utter. The Holy Ghost uttered the words in other tongues on the Day of Pentecost. This is where that 144,000 came from. They had the utterance of the Holy Ghost. They had learned the truth and were the teachers of this truth.

#503 is also associated with this meaning and it says to make a thousandfold:- bring forth thousands. So this early church, the 144,000, bought forth thousands more to the Lord. These were all the firstfruits unto the Lord. These were all part of that 144,000. Remember, this does not mean 144,000, such as we think of as numbers. It is not speaking of ‘how many�? It is speaking of a ‘family�?of teachers and learners and utterers, being the firstfruits to God.

#504- from 502- a family; also (from the sense of yoking or taming) an ox or cow:-family, kine, oxen.

Now this is very powerful, spiritually. See that this 144,000 is a FAMILY. Which family? That of Jesus Christ. See that this brought forth that ox or the first head on that four-faced living Creature, which is this family of Jesus Christ. That four-faced living Creature in Eze. 1 & 10, is this family of Jesus Christ, the true Christians. They are the 144,000. They are virgins to Christ, for they follow only him and not the whore church. So the ox head is this labouring and sacrificing family of Christians born at Pentecost by the Speaking in tongues which was uttered through them by the Holy Ghost, proving they had now been filled with this Holy Ghost of Jesus, their head. Remember we are studying the original meaning of the word ‘thousand�? It linked with this ox and a family of teachers, learners and those who utter by the Holy Ghost.

#505--the same as 504; hence (an ox’s head being the first letter of the alphabet, and this eventually used as a numeral). So see that this first letter of the alphabet ties with Christ being the first or the alpha.

Now, to see why it became 144,000. Look up ‘twelve�?in the Hebrews # 8147. This ties back from #8145 to #8138--a prim. root; to fold, i.e. duplicate. This shows to do (speak, strike) again, alter, DOUBLE, repeat, return, do the second time.

#8145--from 8138- double, i.e. second; also again.

#8147--dual of 8145; fem. two; also twofold:-both, couple, double, second, twain, + twelfth, + twelve, + twenty (sixscore) thousand, twice, two.

Now that is a lot of writing to do this message, for I had to type all of that (I have no way of copying from the Strong’s yet). But it is very important to understanding this truth so I did not mind doing this. But if you want truth, you need to study what this means. It is powerful in its meaning. It shows that the word ‘thousand�? twelve, two all have this same meaning. Also the word ‘double�?has this same meaning. Look up Two in the strong’s. It is the above #8147. So see that these all have the very same meaning.

So what we see in this is that the 144,000 means the original firstfruits to God and the Lamb, that Church born at Pentecost. They were the teaching family. They had the truth. They had the uttering by the Spirit.

You know that they wrote the NT, showing they were the teachers of truth. We all go by their teachings.

But notice something glorious, and this fits what I have been teaching for years, that the TWO witnesses does not mean a literal 2 people. It is not a NUMERAL. It has this meaning here as the double of that teaching, learning, family of OXEN. The Oxen was that spirit of teaching, leading and uttering of the Holy Ghost which that apostolic church had. But we find that it will REPEAT. Yes, one of the meanings above for thousand, twelve and two meant to repeat, or double. So it is as I have taught, there will come another WITNESS of God. There will be another true Church, anointed with the Holy Ghost and TRUTH. That 144,000 will repeat.

There will come another group of witnesses of God’s power on this earth. They will also have that seal of God in their foreheads. That seal is the Holy Ghost. This group the second time, will also have that powerful Spirit of Fire to bring the judgment, or wrath of the Lamb onto this earth. This proves that God will repeat what He brought at Pentecost, with another group of powerful witnesses who will be virgins to the Lamb of God because they do not follow idols nor the whorish church. They have not committed fornication with her. It is not a certain number of Jewish men as almost every thinks. Remember that TWELVE also has this same meaning. Thousand, Twelve, Two, Double all means the same thing Spiritually.

So that 12,000 sealed out of each tribe of Israel does NOT mean 12,000 as a numeral, or number of people. Now if you think it does, you are just totally ignoring all the true meanings shown above and refusing to look at the Word of God SPIRITUAL. You insist on trying to make it be carnal minded as you are. God has never decreed that a certain number of folks can be saved, or sealed with the Holy Ghost or have eternal life. That would cross the entire word of God. Now how and why did it become 144,000? Because you take 12,000 out of 12 tribes, and this comes to 144,000. You will find that this is the Holy City, New Jerusalem. [Again, it is not a certain amount of people; it is those of the teaching family, those who learned truth and were sealed with the Holy Ghost. It is not a number.]

Now if you attempt to make this be ‘just�?144,000 literal Jewish men, then you cut all other Christians out of being of the Holy City. Again I tell you that you need to pray for a Spiritual Mind, or you will NEVER understand any Scripture. You will never see any truth. You will wonder around forever in the darkness of your carnal, blind mind.

Rev21:10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

Re 21:12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:

Re 21:15 And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof.

Notice here that he measured the city, the gates, and the wall. So the city and the gates and the wall are different parts of this Holy City. You will have to study and concentrate to learn this.

Re 21:16 And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal. 21:17 And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel.

Now all of this is Spiritual talk, not natural measurements of our way of life. See that all these parts are said to be EQUAL. Now I have taught you that EQUALITY is the very heart of God, of Christianity. See that the WALL is 144 cubits, angel measurement. That 144 fits this 144,000. I will prove it. The City being pure gold shows it was full of God’s truth and glory. It is not natural gold as we think of gold. These things are all spiritual.

Re 21:19 And the foundations of the wall of the city were garnished with all manner of precious stones. The first foundation was jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, a chalcedony; the fourth, an emerald;

Now what was the foundations? It was the Apostles with Jesus Christ as the chief corner stone. All these precious stones are their converts. Peter said we are lively stones in His Building.

Re 21:21 And the twelve gates were twelve pearls: every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass.

These twelve gates to the City are the twelve Apostles of the Lamb. Everyone must come in through those Apostles to enter into this Holy City. You must come in by way of their teachings. There is no other way.

So that wall of this City being 144 cubits means that 144,000 sealed Saints, which is the double of that first Church, or the repeat performance of this Act of empowering God’s Witnesses. The firstfruits of that Pentecostal Church along with those who receive the second outpouring at the end of this age, will make up this 144,000. It is not a number of people. It is that teaching family of Oxen unto God.

It is doubled, or repeated by God. Also his wrath to mystery Babylon is doubled. This means that he has already brought their destruction once, when he closed off the OT. He will repeat this or double it to her again at the end of this age.

Rev7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

Now you who think that 144,000 is a literal set of Jewish men, and this other group of people are just Gentiles, read that. It said this group came out of ALL, EVERY NATION, every people and tongue. Now this INCLUDES the Jews. Are they not part of the ‘all nations�? Sure they are.

Have you never read where Paul stated over and over that there is no difference in Jews and anyone else? Then why do you insist on trying to divide them? After the Day of Pentecost, didn’t God open up this great outpouring of the Holy Ghost to every nation in the world? Sure he did. So this is the group which he now sees, all the people’s of this world being brought into the Kingdom of God.

Now he said AFTER this, I saw that great group of people....so I ask AFTER WHAT? Have you searched the Scripture to see what he is speaking of, after this? The whorish church has so polluted the Word of God and turned everything around backwards, that no truth exist in the minds of church today. They have ‘made up�?a silly, unscriptural lie called a rapture, by which Jesus is going to come part way down to earth, and secretly, like a thief, steal away his folks in the night and take them off up to heaven while he pours out his wrath on those he leaves behind.

Now they claim that during this time period of a silly seven years, our time, this great number of folks is going to come in and be cleansed by the blood of the Lamb. I say it is hog-wash. No Scripture teaches this junk. They take a few Scriptures, twist it around to suit their deceived minds and try to back up these lies. But they never get to any truth.

It is saying that after that first outpouring of the Holy Ghost at Pentecost, which brought in those firstfruits to God, that group of Oxen, teaching family, brought in this great group of other believers. The false church claims that these people come in during a seven-year tribulation period.

Again I declare to you that the Word of God does not teach any seven-year tribulation period. Paul declared that they went through great tribulation. One of the churches was said to have ten years of tribulation. Jesus said that all who live Godly in this world shall suffer tribulation. So then are you saying that only people in that ‘seven years�?ever live Godly?

So see, it is lies again. Tribulation has existed all down through the ages. It began when Cain killed Abel. Abel died under great tribulation. He was martyred for His stand for Truth. He is part of the Holy City of God. So is His Mother, Eve.

The angel came with the seal of God, which is the Baptism of the Holy Ghost. Those saints in the upper room received this seal of God. Then they brought in many other thousands of believers and they also received this seal. This church was the firstfruits unto God and the Lamb. How can anyone of you deny this? It is beyond my mind how you could not see this truth so plainly laid out in Scripture.

You will not find any reference to any other ‘firstfruits�?listed in the Word of God. If you do, please show it to me. Every reference in the Word of God, old and new, to firstfruits refers to the first gathered in of their labour. It could not refer to any people down at the end of the world, except it be that God doubled his first work again. He will repeat that act of empowering another witness to God. But the firstfruits was that Apostolic Church at Pentecost. They are the foundation of the Holy City. We will be the walls.

Rev14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads. 14:2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps: 14:3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. Rev14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. 14:5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God. 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people.

Now this says that these 144,000 sing a new song. This means they had come into the New Testament of Grace. No one can ‘sing�?this song of Grace except those who receive this seal of God. You must be sealed with the Holy Ghost to have the Grace of God. See that it calls them the firstfruits unto God and the Lamb. Surely you must know that has to be that early Apostolic Church? If not, where do they fit? Are they not the firstfruits? Sure they are. All others are the fruit of their labours in Christ. See also that it said AFTER this the angel has the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, to EVERY NATION, and kindred, tongue and people. So this proves it was back at Pentecost. For after that initial outpouring on those Jews, it went out to everyone in this world. The Gospel was preached to this whole world and people of every nation came into the kingdom of God from that ministry.

Re 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

See here it is the same thing. After those firstfruits were sealed, then the great multitude out of all nations came into God. The white robes are the righteousness of saints. Now all these true Saints also have this seal. Paul shows that it is to all people. It is to everyone who receives NT Salvation. Now who are those Jews who are sealed? Let the Word of God tell us.

Rom2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Now that plainly tells us that the true Jew is the people who have received that seal of God, the Holy Ghost. It is not in the flesh, it is in the Spirit. We who belong to Christ, are these sealed Jews. We are the 144,000.

Gal4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. [This is that Holy City].

Gal3:7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

Gal3:18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.[This promise is the same promise Peter spoke of on the Day of Pentecost. It is the seal of God, the Holy Ghost.] It is not to those under law, but those under grace.

Gal3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made [see that the law was only added TILL the seed should come to whom the promise was made. This promised seed came on the Day of Pentecost.] [The promise is unto you and your children, and all the Lord our God shall call, not only of the Jews but of the Gentiles also.] After the Holy Ghost came, there was no more need to be under law. It is a curse.

Gal3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

So the conclusion is this: those under Grace, and not law, are the children of promise, who have the seal of the Holy Ghost. We are the 144,000 with the SEAL OF THE LIVING GOD.


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 Message 7 of 9 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameTweety134Sent: 8/5/2006 4:05 AM
Freeborn,
Bless you! You have given me so much to study. I will study it really hard. I will get back to this later. I have to go say my prayers for the night. Thank you so much for this. I will take it scripture by scripture and study it fully. Have a bless night. Tweety

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 Message 8 of 9 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn22Sent: 8/5/2006 4:18 AM
Ok, Tweety,  after I went back and read that last post,  I see that it answers many of the things brought up in your message.  So, please study this as you have time and get back with me on any questions you have.
 
Also, since I have added so many posts here,  If you like, you may make a new thread with your next message in this series.  That way, our answers will stay visible longer.  I do not like for important stuff to roll over,  for most people do not take the time to go back and bring it up to read.
 
Now I think I have added enough to this for now.  but I will tell you this:  The seal being in our foreheads  does NOT MEAN A NATURAL, LITERAL,  BRAND OF SOME SORT,  being placed on us.  There again is the carnal, natural interpretation of foolishness.
 
this means the KNOWLEDGE OF GOD has been placed into us.  His Name also stands for his Word, or the Knowledge of God.  His Name being in our foreheads means that we have that seal of the Holy Ghost, and we have come to KNOW  GOD.  he is in our minds.  It is SPIRITUAL.  It shows that we have his NAME on us....by being baptized in water in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of our sins.  This is the only true way of Salvation.  This is how his NAME is placed on us.
 
Also the mark of the beast, on the sinners,  is not a literal, natural mark of some kind, which some man places on them.  This is just not taught in the Word of God.  It is again their foolish, carnal minds, making up stuff.
 
Most people today, are so foolish and carnal minded, that they think this was just for our day, and that it is some silly computer chip being placed in people.  That is so foolish!
 
What would that have to do with one's salvation?
 
Buying and selling the things of God is this mark.  It started in the Garden of Eden,  just as Mystery Babylon did.  When anyone accepts pay or gives pay for something in the religious work, that is the mark of the beast.
 
The LOVE OF MONEY  is THE ROOT OF ALL EVIL.
 
Satan deals in money.  Jesus does not.  If a person takes a salary for preaching,  he is just a hireling and not of God. That is the mark of the beast.  Selling messages, songs, etc. is the mark of the Beast.  This is why carnal people do not want this TRUTH TO BE MADE MANIFEST.

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 Message 9 of 9 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn22Sent: 8/5/2006 5:17 AM
I will put this one here also,  as it helps prove that the early Church was the ones who carried the gospel into all the world.  They fulfilled that prophecy of taking the everlasting gospel into all the world after their initial Sealing with the Holy Ghost.
 
From: <NOBR>MSN NicknameFreeborn22</NOBR> Sent: 10/1/2005 8:59 PM
Ac 17:6 And when they found them not, they drew Jason and certain brethren unto the rulers of the city, crying, These that have TURNED THE WORLD UPSIDE DOWN are come hither also;

Ac 8:4 Therefore they that were scattered abroad went every where preaching the word.

Ac 24:5 For we have found this man a pestilent fellow, and a mover of sedition among all the Jews throughout the world, and a ringleader of the sect of the Nazarenes:

Romans 1-8. By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:
To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.

Ro 1:14 I am debtor both to the Greeks, and to the Barbarians; both to the wise, and to the unwise.
Ro 1:15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.


Now I really think that is sufficient Scripture proving that the Apostles of Paul's day preached the gospel into all the world, beginning at Jerusalem.

Now one more, spoken by Jesus himself:

Ac 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.


Jesus told those disciples that they WOULD bear witness of him in all the earth.  Did he know what he was saying?  Did it come to pass?

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