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Salvation : Being Born Again
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 Message 1 of 35 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551  (Original Message)Sent: 10/30/2007 3:27 PM

~~ Being Born Again ~~

 Nov. 16, 2006. This is the pure revelation of the Scripture which has tripped up the entire church world. It matters not if they believe trinity or the Jesus-only doctrine, they all misuse John 1:14.

The deception begins with verse one. In reading the Word of God, you must be very careful to read it EXACTLY as it is written, without adding one word, or taking away one word. I keep trying to drive this home to you. Until you learn this, you will continue to mess up the Word of God, and read stuff into it which is not there, thus bringing up false doctrine.

When everyone reads John 1:1, they always insert the word ‘Jesus�?where it says ‘Word�? Thus they cause themselves to get this entire chapter wrong. This in turn causes everything else they believe to be wrong. If the foundation is wrong, the rest of the house is also wrong. If the foundation is crooked, the house will eventually fall. John said in the beginning was the word. Everyone says Jesus for Word. But in actuality, if you see Jesus in this verse, it has to be in place of ‘beginning�? The Word teaches us that Jesus is the beginning. It does not teach us that Jesus is the Word. It teaches us that God put his Word INTO Jesus. So this is the right interpretation of verse one. In Jesus was the Word. That is not adding a false thought. God said I will put my words into this Prophet, and he will speak all that I command him. (Notice that God did not say, this Prophet will be the Word, and he did not say this Prophet will actually be God). Jesus verified this by saying, John14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

John17:8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.

John 3:34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.

John 7:15 And the Jews marvelled, saying, How knoweth this man letters, having never learned? 7:16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. 7:17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself. 7:18 He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.

John 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

John 12:50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

John 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

John 8:47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

Now all of the above Scripture is enough to prove to the hardest person on earth that Jesus was clearly saying that he was speaking only God’s Word and not his own words. Yet at the same time, he did claim them to be his words. I can do the same. I can say this message is not my words, for I am speaking to you God’s Word. And yet, at the same time, it is my words, for I am saying what God gave me to say. Yet I still say it is God’s Word and this is truth. So long as I do not add to His words or take away from his Word, and say only what the Scripture says, I am speaking God’s word. These Words are LIFE, eternal life. It is spiritual FLESH for the soul of man. It is all that can give you eternal life. That is how important this flesh Word is. When Jesus said, Pray, give us today our daily BREAD, he was speaking of asking for revelation of Scripture. That is our daily bread, and unless you receive this daily food, your manchild will not be fed or grow. You will not be made into the likeness of Christ. The Word will not be made flesh in you.

John 12:49 proves that the right interpretation of this came from Deut. 18:18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.

See Jesus said My Father gave me a commandment what I should say and his commandment is everlasting life. So the words Jesus spoke was the flesh we must eat to have eternal life.

Notice John 8:47 said that if you cannot hear these words, it is because you are not of God. So if you cannot understand this message, you are not of God. You cannot ‘hear�?the truth which Jesus preached, so you cannot eat of that Holy Flesh, or Bread. This is the BREAD which came down from Heaven and gives LIFE to the World.

But now let’s take this revelation a step further. This is the part God revealed to me last night.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

John 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Notice here it is saying that those who receive him, are given power TO BECOME (future tense) SONS OF GOD. It is something which is going on in a process of time. It is not immediate that you become a son of God. He said power TO BECOME. This means if you use this power properly, in time you will become a son of God. It did not say, you are immediately a son of God, as most people believe.

John said, now are we the sons of God, and it doeth not yet appear what we shall be, but when he appears we shall see him as he is, for we shall be like him. So this is showing us that there is still something else to come. We are being born by the Word of God.

1Peter 1:12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into. 1:13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; 1:14 As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance: 1:15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; 1:16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

Now that Scripture proves what I am teaching here. Peter showed that the Holy Ghost was sent down from heaven and how they are preaching the gospel. Then he tells us how to follow this flesh message to become children of God. He said we hope to the END for this grace which is brought to us at the revelation of Jesus Christ, which is the same thing John said that when we see him, then we shall be like him. He then tells us that we must be obedient children and not fashion ourselves as we once did in our lusts. We are to be holy in all manner of conversation. This is important to becoming that Son of God. We cannot live just any old manner, of sin and lust, and be brought into that image of Christ, or a Son of God. We must obey the Word of God, so this Word can grow in us and conform us to that image of Christ. Then we will be able to say with Christ Jesus, the Word was made FLESH in me, at the resurrection of the just.

1Pet 1:21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God. 1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:

1pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

1pe 1:24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: 1pe 1:25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

Now see that Peter said we were BEING BORN AGAIN. It is a progressive progress. It is not something which has already been accomplished and finished. This fits exactly what John said, that we will BECOME sons of God. But now there is only one way to reach this high goal. This only way is to take the Word of God, which is preached to us by the Scriptures, and eat of that Word all the days of our lives, obeying it and becoming holy by the Word. We are sanctified by the Word. Without sanctification or holiness, we will not become Sons of God. His children are holy as he is holy.

But notice it said this being born again is not by blood, and it is not by the will or man. So this proves we are not speaking of the first or natural birth here. He that is born of the flesh is flesh. But we are born after the Spirit and it is spirit. But that is something which is going on all the while we sojourn in this life. And only then, if we are EATING of this Word, will we reach this high goal in Christ Jesus.

Go back and read verse 21. He said that God raised Jesus from the dead and GAVE him GLORY. Now see how this fits and proves what Romans 1 and Acts 13 said, that he was only in that glory or the begotten Son of God after his resurrection?

See verse 22 said we purify our souls by obeying the word of Truth. It must be truth or it will not save our souls. Lies will not save anyone. See he said we are being born again of incorruptible SEED, by the Word of God. You can’t get away from it. You must be born again by the Word of God. There is no other way. He said this birth is not of corruptible seed, which is man’s seed, or our first birth. We are speaking of the spiritual birth.

He is showing here a contrast between the natural birth, or flesh, or corruptible seed and the spiritual birth by the Word of God. See verse 24 he shows that there are two different kinds of ‘flesh�?being spoken of here. He said the flesh is as grass and this is the glory of man. This flesh or glory fades and falls off. This is our death. It matters not how much ‘glory�?one thinks they had in this life, at death, it falls off and is proven to be nothing.

So this cements it down that we are speaking of a spiritual birth here. But see how it compares with the natural birth or life. But that flesh, or glory, is nothing more than grass out in the field which dies and falls off. There is no glory to this earthly flesh. Jesus was the same. There was no glory to his earthly flesh life. It faded and fell off. It went into the grave, as we all do. So up unto that point in his life, he had no glory. No one had beheld any glory, for there was none. It was laid in that grave in weakness. But�? It was raised up in GLORY. So now, we are getting somewhere.

In verse 25 Peter said but the Word of the Lord endures forever, and this is the word which we PREACHED to you. It is the very same word which Jesus preached. It is the Word which lived in Jesus and brought him into his glory. That Word overshadowed Jesus and filled him and lived in him all the days of his life, conforming him to the image of God. He obeyed this Word and did always the things which pleased his Father. He spoke only what God gave him to say. He never once deviated and spoke his own thoughts. He never once turned away from the Holy Commandment and sinned. He obeyed the Word fully. He studied the Word and ate the Word until the Word was his very life. The Word lived in Jesus and abode in him and he abode in the Word. He said if we abide in him and his words abide in us, we too, will bear much fruit to God. See this only comes about by the working of the Word is us. As Jesus lived and obeyed the Word, and taught the Word, and thought only of the Word, the Word grew in him until it was merged into ONE. He became one with the Word and the Word was one with him. So then when he died, that word was there in him to quicken his mortal body and bring him out of that grave in a glorified body, the Holy Flesh of the only begotten Son of the Living God.

So in Jesus Christ, the Word was made flesh. Yes, he had taken so much of the Word of God into himself, as he ate the Word, or holy flesh, that it actually made him into a new man. He became so full of the Word that he became conformed into the image of the Living God. The Word took his human body and transformed it into a Holy Son of God. He was the very first one into this new creation of God, of making a man in the likeness and image of the glory of God. Jesus was the first born from the dead. He was the first one to conform so completely to the image of God that he became a begotten Son of God. So it was the Word which transformed this human man, Jesus, into a Son of God. So when you take this to the birth of the baby in Bethlehem, you are denying that Jesus acquired this glory by his perfect life. You are saying that he was God and had nothing to do to inherit eternal life. You are denying that he was made in all points like unto his brethern. You completely take away the honour that Jesus earned by his overcoming sin and denying his flesh, and obeying God. You deny that he was the first born from the dead. If he were already God, he could not have failed and there was no testing or trials. Then it was of no real value to say he never sinned. It is lies of Satan.

That is the only way any of us will ever become transformed into a Son of God. We must eat this flesh, which Jesus fed us. We must obey it, study it, talk it, live it, love it, merge into it and become one with it. Else you will not come out of that grave in the image of God, as a Son of God. Then you will not have used the power he gave you to BECOME A SON OF GOD. You will have wasted the gift God gave you and lose your soul in hell fire.

If you do not take the study of the word of God seriously and stay in it all the days of your life, you will not be born again of this incorruptible seed. It is an ongoing process all the days of your life. It will not be completed until the resurrection. If you fall away, just go to church, do not study the Word, do not seek its truth, and believe its truth and obey it and live it, then the Word will not be made flesh in you. It must make your very flesh obey God and become transformed into His Image, at your resurrection. If you listen to the preachers of today, and think that going to church is the answer, you will lose your soul. If you seek to know what only some earthly person believed, and do not study the word and seek the truth, you will not be born again of this incorruptible seed of the Word of God. This is as plain as I know how to word this. If you cannot ‘hear�?it, it is because you are not a child of God. That is Jesus�?words. That is what he said.

Can you hear?

By: Jo Smith

 

 



First  Previous  21-35 of 35  Next  Last 
Reply
 Message 21 of 35 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 2/12/2008 3:43 PM
From: <NOBR>MSN NicknameFreeborn551</NOBR> Sent: 2/11/2008 6:40 PM
No one has guaranateed salvation yet.  We have a promise that if we first BELIEVE, then get baptized, obey the Word of God, and follow on to know the Lord, obeying and enduring until the end, then we shall be saved.
No one is SAVED yet.  No one, this side of the resurrection, has yet been BORN AGAIN.
 
We are all still in our mortal bodies.  When we are born again, we will come forth, out of the grave, into the glorified body, like unto his glorious body.  That is the complete NEW BIRTH.
We have it is a measure here, as we live a victorious, overcoming life, in the likeness of his resurrection.  but it is possible to FALL AWAY, and lose the start you made.
 
Again, I caution you,  we must take ALL OF GOD'S WORD,  NOT JUST A FEW CHOICE VERSES, WHICH   'SEEM'  TO FIT THE MAN-MADE DOCTRINES WHICH TICKLES YOUR EARS, giving you a false hope of disobeying most of Scripture, living in sin, and still make heaven your eternal home.
It is lies of Satan and a death trap for your soul.
 

Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

Heb 6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

Heb 6:3 And this will we do, if God permit.

Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

Heb 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. Heb 10:31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

I beseech you to study these Scriptures and seek for God's truth from them.  Lies of man will doom souls to hell.

 

Reply
 Message 22 of 35 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 2/12/2008 3:44 PM
From: <NOBR>MSN NicknameIchabod55</NOBR> Sent: 2/11/2008 6:41 PM
Are you telling us that Satan is saved?

No, I'm saying that the offer of salvation was not given to the demons, so it's a mote point to bring demons into John 3.16

and karkar was right in post 37

Reply
Recommend  Message 41 of 65 in Discussion 
From: <NOBR>MSN NicknameIchabod55</NOBR> Sent: 2/11/2008 6:42 PM
She's a false teacher... guaranteed

Reply
Recommend  Message 42 of 65 in Discussion 
From: <NOBR>MSN NicknameIchabod55</NOBR> Sent: 2/11/2008 6:43 PM
I say off with her head before her lies go any farther or deeper

Reply
Recommend  Message 43 of 65 in Discussion 
From: <NOBR>MSN NicknameFreeborn551</NOBR> Sent: 2/11/2008 6:45 PM
Someone please show me where I said demons know Scripture.  I am not familiar with having said that.
 
From: karkar Sent: 2/11/2008 6:36 PM
A yes or no question.
 
Are you proclaiming one must speak in tongues to be saved?  A simple yes or no will suffice. 

Please allow me to teach in the way God shows me.  A simple yes or not will NOT suffice, since it would still not make this matter clear to anyone.  It cannot be answered that way and be of any benefit.  If I said 'yes', then all who do not believe this would immediately leave this conversation, without ever having learned the great truth of God.

If I say 'no', then all who hold that we do, will also run off.

So I cannot answer it that way.  You do, if that is how you believe it.  I cannot cut this matter up that short.  It is too important.  Salvation is too important.


Reply
 Message 23 of 35 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 2/12/2008 3:45 PM
From: <NOBR>MSN NicknameFreeborn551</NOBR> Sent: 2/11/2008 6:50 PM
Do you BELIEVE Scripture?
 
Here is what James said:
 

James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

Jas 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: show me thy faith without thy works, and I will show thee my faith by my works.

Jas 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.


Reply
Recommend  Message 45 of 65 in Discussion 
From: karkar Sent: 2/11/2008 6:51 PM
  I believe in tongues; but, I don't yoke people with the notion that it is a necessity.  It is wonderful and amazing and i wish everyone would ask for the gift and receive it; but, it is not a requirement for salvation. 

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 Message 24 of 35 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 2/12/2008 3:46 PM
From: <NOBR>MSN NicknameIchabod55</NOBR> Sent: 2/11/2008 6:59 PM
No one is accusing you of saying that demons know Scripture. I am saying that the gift of salvation was not offered to satan or his minions.

In post 30 you said "In fact I shall prove, with Scripture, that believing is not sufficient alone for salvation. If so, the Satan has salvation, for he BELIEVES in one God and trembles."

The point of what satan believes does not effect ME or the gift of salvation that the Lord has offered ME. Another thing, satan knows scripture better then you or I do, and he has perverted God's words right from the Garden of Eden. Satan knew enough scripture to tempt Jesus in the desert, he knows enough scripture to twist Gods gift of salvation into a long list of things we have to check off before it is available to us. Thats a lie

God's gift of salvation is "Believe in Jesus" end of list.

You are perverting scripture by adding a list of man made do's and don't's to it. Shame on you !!!!

Reply
Recommend  Message 48 of 65 in Discussion 
From: karkar Sent: 2/11/2008 7:01 PM
I did say that in a post earlier so it was my mistake.  Sorry Freeborn!

Reply
 Message 25 of 35 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 2/12/2008 3:47 PM
From: <NOBR>MSN NicknameFreeborn551</NOBR> Sent: 2/11/2008 7:02 PM
Let's go back to John 3:

John 3:1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews: J

oh 3:2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.

Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Joh 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

Joh 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Now Jesus said here, that one must be born again.  He must be born of WATER AND SPIRIT.  Notice, He did not say, born of believing, now did he?

He said born of WATER AND SPIRIT.  That which os born of spirit is spirit.  So it is in the Spirit.  We must be born of the SPIRIT.

Where is this explained in detail?

From the mouth of the one to whom Jesus gave the keys to the kingdom:

Ac 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

Ac 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

Ac 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Ac 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Ac 2:40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

Ac 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

Surely, you know that REPENTANCE is a necessary part of being saved?

How can one be saved without first REPENTING OF THEIR SINS?

Those Jews asked Peter,  what shall we do?  they wanted to know how to be saved.  What did Peter tell them?

Repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ FOR THE REMISSION of your sins and ye shall be filled with the Holy Ghost.....

THIS IS THE BEING BORN OF WATER AND SPIRIT.  NO OTHER WAY IS TAUGHT IN SCRIPTURE.



Reply
 Message 26 of 35 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 2/12/2008 3:47 PM
From: <NOBR>MSN NicknameFreeborn551</NOBR> Sent: 2/11/2008 7:08 PM
From: <NOBR>MSN NicknameIchabod55</NOBR> Sent: 2/11/2008 6:59 PM
No one is accusing you of saying that demons know Scripture. I am saying that the gift of salvation was not offered to satan or his minions.

In post 30 you said "In fact I shall prove, with Scripture, that believing is not sufficient alone for salvation. If so, the Satan has salvation, for he BELIEVES in one God and trembles."

The point of what satan believes does not effect ME or the gift of salvation that the Lord has offered ME. Another thing, satan knows scripture better then you or I do, and he has perverted God's words right from the Garden of Eden. Satan knew enough scripture to tempt Jesus in the desert, he knows enough scripture to twist Gods gift of salvation into a long list of things we have to check off before it is available to us. Thats a lie

God's gift of salvation is "Believe in Jesus" end of list.

You are perverting scripture by adding a list of man made do's and don't's to it. Shame on you !!!!

I am perverting Scripture by adding a list of man made do's and dont's to it.  Shame on me!  Prove it.  Show me one man made thing I have added here.  I have QUOTED PERFECT SCRIPTURE for every word I have said......and that is exactly why I take the time to QUOTE THE WORD OF GOD....to prove it is his word, and not some man's word.

If believing alone saves, then satan would be saved, for the word of God said he BELIEVES IN ONE GOD,.

That is EXACTLY why this is pointed out in Scripture.

Jesus said these sign SHALL  ( a positvie statement.) follow them that BELEIVE.........they SHALL speak with new tongues.

Is that a man made lie? or a man made do or don't?  If so, why is it recorded in the Word of God, saying that JESUS TAUGHT THIS?

****

iT IS OK, KARKAR.  We all make mistakes.  I only wish to help someone find this glorious truth.  Man's soul is too important to have this wrong.



Reply
 Message 27 of 35 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 2/12/2008 3:48 PM
From: <NOBR>MSN NicknameIchabod55</NOBR> Sent: 2/11/2008 7:31 PM
If believing alone saves, then satan would be saved, for the word of God said he BELIEVES IN ONE GOD,. form post 50

___________

How many times do I have to say that the gift of salvation WAS NOT offered to satan or his demons ??? It was offered to mankind.

Quoting scripture is meaningless if you twist the scripture you quote. Speaking in tongues and baptism is NOT a prerequiste for salvation.


Reply
Recommend  Message 52 of 65 in Discussion 
From: <NOBR>MSN NicknameFreeborn551</NOBR> Sent: 2/11/2008 7:39 PM

Ac 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.

Ac 2:2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.

Ac 2:3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.

Ac 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Please notice that all 120 men and women, in that upper room were filled with the Holy  Ghost and began to SPEAK WITH OTHER TONGUES, AS THE SPIRIT GAVE THEM UTTERANCE.

This is NOT the Gift of Tongues.  This is the Gift of the Holy Ghost.

Everyone there who received the HG, spoke in tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. It was the Spirit uttering in them.  It was not them speaking,  it was the Holy Ghost.

 

In the mouth of two of three witnesses, let EVERY WORD BE ESTABLISHED......this is a law of God himself.

So, is this established as the way the Holy Ghost comes into a vessel of flesh?

We only need two more places.  Well, actually, we only need one more place, for that would make the necessary two witnesses.

Ac 10:42 And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.

Ac 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

Ac 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

Ac 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Ac 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,

Ac 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

Ac 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

So, the first Gentiles, when they received the Holy Ghost, ALSO spoke in tongues and then were COMMANDED by Peter, to be WATER baptized in Jesus Name.

So that is the necessary birth of WATER AND SPIRIT, which Jesus spoke of in John 3.  Here it is fulfilled to the Gentiles. and they had the very same witness of speaking in tongues, which Jesus said would surely follow those that BELIEVE.

Ac 19:1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,

Ac 19:2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

Ac 19:3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

Ac 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

Ac 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Ac 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

Ac 19:7 And all the men were about twelve.

 

 

Notice that these 12 men had already been baptized by John the Baptist. But the Apostle Paul re-baptized them in the name of Jesus Christ. Why? It was NECESSARY to get their sins remitted. It was new birth by water.

Did they receive the Holy Ghost? Yes. Were they ALREADY believers? Yes! Did Paul tell them they had not believed right, or from the heart? No such words are here recorded. Paul had asked, Have you received the Holy Ghost SINCE you BELIEVED?

Not did you get the Holy Ghost when you believed�?but SINCE you believed. They said they did not even know of the HG.

Do you all believe that a person can be saved without the Holy Ghost? It is not possible.

Can he come in, without uttering in tongues? Of course NOT. It is here established, by God, with the necessary three witnesses, that this is the way he comes in.

Verse 6.. They spake with TONGUES, and prophesied.

Where did God say this is not now our way of salvation? It is not recorded. We must be born the way it is recorded in Acts. This is where John three was fulfilled.


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 Message 28 of 35 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 2/12/2008 3:49 PM
From: <NOBR>MSN NicknameFreeborn551</NOBR> Sent: 2/11/2008 7:46 PM
From: <NOBR>MSN NicknameIchabod55</NOBR> Sent: 2/11/2008 7:31 PM
If believing alone saves, then satan would be saved, for the word of God said he BELIEVES IN ONE GOD,. form post 50

___________

How many times do I have to say that the gift of salvation WAS NOT offered to satan or his demons ??? It was offered to mankind.

Quoting scripture is meaningless if you twist the scripture you quote. Speaking in tongues and baptism is NOT a prerequiste for salvation.

Me:  You are wrong.  God told everyone, including that wicked one and his son, that they would be received if they did well.  They refused to repent.  Adam never repented, either did Cain.

But this does NOT change the fact that if believing saves one, then Satan would have salvation, for he meets THAT requirement.

OK, you give me a Scripture proving what you are saying.  Prove that water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ is NOT necessary for the remission of sins. Prove that the Holy Ghost can come in without uttering in other tongues.

Prove one can be saved without having the Holy Ghost.

I will like to read your quoted verses saying this.  Dispute what Jesus taught, what Peter taught and what Paul taught.  if you can.

Prove where I have twisted one verse I quoted.  Prove it.  don't just falsly accuse.


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 Message 29 of 35 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 2/12/2008 3:49 PM
From: <NOBR>MSN NicknameFreeborn551</NOBR> Sent: 2/11/2008 7:54 PM
Do you believe what Paul said, which is recorded in Acts?
 

Ac 22:12 And one Ananias, a devout man according to the law, having a good report of all the Jews which dwelt there,

Ac 22:13 Came unto me, and stood, and said unto me, Brother Saul, receive thy sight. And the same hour I looked up upon him.

Ac 22:14 And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth.

Ac 22:15 For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard.

Ac 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Ac 22:17 And it came to pass, that, when I was come again to Jerusalem, even while I prayed in the temple, I was in a trance;

Are you going to accuse the wirter of Acts of also perverting Scripture?  He said,  and these are Paul's words,  as he testified of being 'saved':  arise and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Was Paul  also perverting Scripture?  I AM SAYING WHAT HE SAID.

Where is your Scripture for what you declare?  Give me one verse saying Baptism is not part of salvation...speaking in tongues is not part of receiving the Holy Ghost.....receiving the Holy Ghost is not part of the being born again, of Spirit.

Prove your words!!!


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 Message 30 of 35 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 2/12/2008 3:50 PM
From: <NOBR>MSN NicknameFreeborn551</NOBR> Sent: 2/11/2008 8:00 PM
You want a yes, no, answer.  I have given it.  Here it is:
 
YES, speaking in tongues is the sign of having received the Holy Ghost,  and it is impossible to be born of the Spirit apart from receiving the Holy Ghost.
 
So, no.  You cannot be saved without this manifestation of the Spirit uttering in you.  You will absolutely speak in tongues when the Holy Ghost come into you....and if he does not ever come into you,  you are none of his....but are lost.
 
If you reject God's chosen plan of salvation, you do not believe his word, and you will be lost, believing man's TWISTED WORDS of denial of all that God did say.
 
speaking in tongues does not save you.....but you absolutely WILL SPEAK IN TONGUES WHEN YOU ARE BORN OF THE SPIRIT.
 
It is not the gift of tongues.  It is the gift of the Holy Ghost.
 
There is no salvation apart from this gift of the Holy Ghost.  There is no salvation apart from repentance from sin.....of being water baptized in Jesus Name for the remission of your sins.
 
They must be remitted if you are to receive salvation.  This is not man's works, It is obedience to the Word you claim to believe.  IF  you do believe it,  YOU WILL OBEY IT,  AND YOU WILL HAVE THE SIGNS FOLLOWING YOU WHICH JESUS PREACHED WOULD FOLLOW THE BELIEVERS.
 
 
If you do not, You do NOT BELEIVE.  At least, you do not believe God's word.  You believe a lie to be damned.

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 Message 31 of 35 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 2/12/2008 3:50 PM
From: <NOBR>MSN NicknameFreeborn551</NOBR> Sent: 2/11/2008 8:05 PM

Isa 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.

Isa 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little

Isa 28:11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.

. Isa 28:12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.

Was this prophesied? Of Course. The above verses are the prophesy that this speaking in tongues will be the REST and the refreshing for the soul, from God.

It also proves that they unbelievers will reject this SIGN GIFT OF SPEAKING IN TONGUES.

So when you refuse this gift, you are showing that you are un UNBELIEVER.

It is a sign to the UNBELIEVERS. The Believers do not reject this REST WHICH JESUS GIVES US.


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 Message 32 of 35 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 2/12/2008 3:51 PM
From: <NOBR>MSN NicknameIchabod55</NOBR> Sent: 2/11/2008 8:36 PM

OK, you give me a Scripture proving what you are saying.  Prove that water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ is NOT necessary for the remission of sins. Prove that the Holy Ghost can come in without uttering in other tongues.

Prove one can be saved without having the Holy Ghost.    Post53

 

_________________

 

How about the thief on the cross in Luke 23

verse 42  And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.

verse 43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thess, Today shalt thou be with me in paradis.

 

No baptism, speaking in tongues but pure sweet salvation for the man who believed in Jesus.


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Recommend  Message 58 of 65 in Discussion 
From: <NOBR>MSN NicknameFreeborn551</NOBR> Sent: 2/11/2008 8:55 PM
chabod55,   You do greatly err, not knowing the Scripture or the power of God.  You are making the very same mistake so many before you make.
 
The thief on the cross was not born of the Spirit.  He did not obtain salvation that day, for it was not yet available to anyone.  He went in under that old covenant, where they waited until the price was paid and redemption bought by the blood of Jesus Christ.
 
He was allowed that second chance of all who were being held in that place of the departed OT souls.  Jesus  went and preached to those souls in prison.  That theif was in that prison.  But today is the day of salvation,  so Jesus prophecied that he would be there, in that day with  him.
 
That man did not get there without baptism of the holy Ghost.  The first church practiced baptism for the dead.  No other group of people have ever been given this understanding of ability to be baptized for the dead.
 
No one can come into salvation apart from the atoinment of Jesus and his  plan of salvation, which Peter preached on the Day of Pentecost and since then.
 
For that matter, you could have named every saint of the OT.  But remember, that they WITHOUT US COULD NOT BE MADE PERFECT.
 
Nope.  You have not           given a qualified Scripture yet.

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 Message 33 of 35 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 2/12/2008 3:55 PM
( p.s. Me:  Now that was my last word to that group.  I have posted here every single word which I posted to that group.  If anyone can show me where I did wrong, slandered anyone, spoke evil to anyone or about God, please show it.  I say I did nothing except try to teach these people the truth of salvation, so they could come into God's Holy Kingdom.  For that, they hated me and kicked me out of that group.
 
Many times, I am accused of doing evil, which causes me to be kicked out everywhere I go.  So, as I wanted to both save my work from there, and to  show you that I did nothing to deserve this kind of evil, I have posted here every word which was spoken there after I first posted.  I hope if any of you read this, you will go back to the very first and read it all.
 
Following is the stuff they said after kicking me out:
 
From: <NOBR>MSN NicknameIchabod55</NOBR> Sent: 2/11/2008 10:11 PM
Sorry Freeborn,
I can't continue, I'm tired of this discussion, it's an endless game of blah blah blah. Jesus says a man is with HIm in heaven, for all eternity and you say that doesn't count. I think that proved beyond a doubt and you say it's irrelevant.

I don't believe there is anything a person has to do to receive the gift of God which is salvation. If you do, that's fine. I don't agree with you teaching your lies in Power and if it was my site I would delete you, however, my opinion means little worldwide. So have at it... teach as you wish.

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Recommend  Message 60 of 65 in Discussion 
From: <NOBR>MSN NicknameDOZ_girl</NOBR> Sent: 2/11/2008 10:48 PM
Woah!! What a lot I had to read....
 
I disagree...... I am saved..... I know that with all my heart.......
 
I do not speak in tongues and that was GOD'S decision...
 
I agree with Ichabod.... I'm through wasting my time reading something that just isn't the Truth of the Word...
 
Blessings in Jesus
DOZ

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Recommend  Message 61 of 65 in Discussion 
From: <NOBR>MSN NicknameIchabod55</NOBR> Sent: 2/11/2008 11:03 PM
Amen Doz...

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 Message 34 of 35 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 2/12/2008 3:56 PM
From: karkar Sent: 2/11/2008 11:17 PM
There is nothing I detest more than someone joining a Christian site to try to save Christians.  

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Recommend  Message 63 of 65 in Discussion 
From: karkar Sent: 2/11/2008 11:20 PM
Sorry about that guys...I have to at least give people enough rope to see where they are going with something in an effort to be fair.  I figured that was the case in the beginning. 

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Recommend  Message 64 of 65 in Discussion 
From: <NOBR>MSN NicknameIchabod55</NOBR> Sent: 2/11/2008 11:57 PM
karkar, good job.

i don't mind discussing most stuff but ones salvation through works is not one I enjoy and I think it's a poke in God's eye.

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Recommend  Message 65 of 65 in Discussion 
From: <NOBR>MSN NicknameSinä_J</NOBR> Sent: 2/12/2008 12:52 AM
whoa !!!  what I miss ?
 

Me:  so far, that is the last word to this thread.  All I can say is,  May God help any there who might be honest-hearted.  They sure are against God's truth!

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 Message 35 of 35 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 2/12/2008 4:00 PM
If you do read all of this, please note that they said one can be saved and not have the Holy ghost.
 
I ask,   how in this world did Satan succede in convincing people of this hideous lie?

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