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Women : Women in ministry, by Lee
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 Message 1 of 16 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551  (Original Message)Sent: 7/25/2007 3:02 AM
From: <NOBR>MSN NicknameLead_er1</NOBR>  (Original Message) Sent: 9/15/2002 3:33 PM

Praise Jesus, I dont know if its a good ideal to try to run 2 studys at the same time , But I will try .  I would like for us to meet in a chat room Maybe we could call it General Assembley of the Christian Community are some thing like that. What do you think.     Lee 

 

 
 


The story is told of a tragic car accident involving a father and son. The father was pronounced dead at the scene as his child was rushed off in an ambulance. Upon arrival at the hospital, the son was moved quickly to surgery. Orderlies, nurses, and doctors reacted with the awareness that every second counted. As the surgeon donned gloves and mask, however, the unexpected happened. Looking into the face of the boy for the first time, the doctor looked away saying, "I can't operate. This patient is my son!" Alarm spread among the surgical attendants. How could this be? The boy's father had died.

Many who hear this story for the first time find it confusing. The doctor's reaction doesn't seem to make sense. The son was not adopted and never had more than one father. Few guess quickly that the surgeon was the victim's mother.

It is difficult to change habits of thinking. In spite of legislation designed to remove sexual prejudice from the workplace (Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964), gender-defined roles and expectations remain burned into our minds.

Many in our day are wondering to what extent such cultural perception has also shaped our views of women in ministry. A growing number of men and women believe that when a church refuses to allow a woman to preach, baptize, distribute communion, or lead a business meeting, it is being influenced more by human tradition than by the will of God. As a result, some denominations have adopted policies calling for the ordination and full participation of women in all aspects of church life and leadership.

Such trends deserve careful evaluation. Until recently, the only congregations willing to ordain women to pastoral ministry were those lacking a high view of Scripture. It was usually the minister trained in a liberal seminary who taught his congregation that the apostle Paul could not be trusted when it came to his view of women in the church. There was no other way they could adequately discount the limitations that Paul seemed to place on women in ministry.

Today, the picture has changed. The cause of women in ministry is being led by people who confess to a high view of Scripture. This group is raising questions not about Paul, but about traditional interpretations of key texts. The result is that widely respected Bible teachers and scholars are now saying they are not so sure the Scriptures require us to withhold ordination from women. Such men and women say that what they are sure of is that the Scriptures are not as male-oriented as they once thought. Many believe that male leadership in both the home and church has been so exploitative and abusive of women that any interpretation giving men authority over women is dangerous.

The result is that with the recognition of past mistakes, unanswered questions of interpretation, problems of application, and the endorsements of many respected Christian leaders, an increased number of conservative Christians are opening up to the idea of woman-led churches.

"Christians for Biblical Equality" is one group that has published a statement in Christian periodicals calling for a rethinking of gender-defined roles for men and women in the home and church. A portion of their statement reads: "In the church, spiritual gifts of women and men are to be recognized, developed, and used in serving and teaching ministries at all levels of involvement: as small group leaders, counselors, facilitators, administrators, ushers, communion servers, and board members, and in pastoral care, teaching, preaching, and worship. In so doing, the church will honor God as the source of spiritual gifts. The church will also fulfill God's mandate of stewardship without the appalling loss to God's kingdom that results when half of the church's members are excluded from positions of responsibility."

For application to the family, this same group says, "In the Christian home, husband and wife are to defer to each other in seeking to fulfill each other's preferences, desires, and aspirations. Neither spouse is to seek to dominate the other, but each is to act as servant of the other, in humility considering the other as better than oneself. In case of decisional deadlock, they should seek resolution through biblical methods of conflict resolution rather than by one spouse imposing a decision upon the other. In so doing, husband and wife will help the Christian home stand against improper use of power and authority by spouses, and will protect the home from wife and child abuse that sometimes tragically follows a hierarchical interpretation of the husband's 'headship.'"

There is much that rings true in this call for biblical equality. We have too often overlooked the shared partnership of men and women and the many ways in which both have been gifted to serve one another and the body of Christ.

For instance, in the early church, both men and women had the gift of prophecy. While prophecy is distinguished from the gift of teaching (Rom. 12:6-8), there are many similarities. Paul wrote that the one "who prophesies speaks edification and exhortation and comfort to men" (1 Cor. 14:3). He also said that the result of prophecy was that the whole church could learn and be encouraged (1 Cor. 14:31). It's important to recognize that women had that kind of participation in the first-century church.

There is always a danger, however, in overcorrecting past mistakes. Spiritual equality is not the only principle to be applied to men and women in ministry. We need to remember that first-century women had authority to prophesy only when they wore a head covering, which in Middle-Eastern culture reflected gender distinction and acknowledgment of male headship (1 Cor. 11:3-12).

It was this kind of "truth in tension" that provided the basis for the RBC booklet titled, What Does God Expect of a Woman? In that study we saw that a balanced view of Scripture leads a woman to (1) feminine distinction, (2) selective submission, (3) spiritual equality, and (4) strength of character. In this booklet, we will reemphasize the same principles but with a special interest in how they relate to woman's role in ministry.

We are indebted to those who have helped us to rethink our assumptions about the relationships between men and women. Much has been written about the way Christ lifted women to a place of honor far exceeding the social attitudes and customs of first-century life. Much has been written to show the achievements of noteworthy women not only in biblical times but throughout all periods of church history. Equally significant and urgent are the calls for men and women to rediscover our unity and spiritual equality in Christ.

Much of the current literature, however, is emphasizing one side of the coin to the exclusion of the other. Many are making the assumption that spiritual equality in Christ is the one overriding truth that makes it necessary to explain away the gender-linked ministry roles found in the Bible. There is a certain justice to this overadjustment. In the past, the opposite occurred. The Bible was approached with a view that caused women to be taken for granted, their gifts wasted, and their opinions ignored. The Bible was used to establish the kind of male dominance that lacked balance and regard for the spiritual equality and complementary roles designed by our Creator.

This struggle for balance in our view of men and women is similar to the doctrinal tug-of-war that occurs with all sound doctrine. All truth is held in tension by counterbalancing factors. Law and grace, free will and sovereignty, faith and works, the love and fear of God, His permissive and directive will--all must be accepted in "both/and" rather than "either/or" conclusions. The same is true in the issue of men and women. We are both called to submit to one another, yet men are called to sacrifice their interests for the sake of women in different ways than women are to selectively submit to men.

It would be easier to do away with either headship or equality. But in either case we would satisfy our minds at the expense of the other side of an important biblical truth.

The following pages are presented in summary fashion to help us realize that there is not just one but many factors that must be considered before we can have a balanced, biblical view of women in ministry. Some of the specific details will remain to be worked out according to the study, wisdom, conscience, unity, and faith of individual congregations. We pray that what follows will prove helpful to such discussions.



First  Previous  2-16 of 16  Next  Last 
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 Message 2 of 16 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameTweety134Sent: 1/1/2008 1:53 PM
This was good reading Freeborn. I wish alot of churches would wake up and smell the coffee about women and preachin.  Tweety

Reply
 Message 3 of 16 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 1/2/2008 12:00 AM
They will not, for Adam has them in his clutches.
 
Leader had some more of these messages.  Wish I had time to find some more of them and post them on the womans board.

Reply
 Message 4 of 16 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 1/17/2008 3:36 AM
(this was taken from another discussion...but it is needful here also:)
*********
 
God did not set man over the woman until after they had sinned.  This is punishment for sin.  But after the NT salvation, Jesus did away with this bondage and put down the high from HIS seat, and exhalted, or lifted up high, those of low degree, meaning the WOMEN.
 
Why try to fight the freedom Jesus gave us?  Why try to hold the women still unforgiven?  If they are forgiven, then they are not still under the bondage.
 
Eve was Adam's helpmeet, not the other way around.  This word means to lead, protect, surround and aid.  This was taken away from him, because of his sin.  See where the world is now, because of this perverted situation?
 
Also know that the entire Church is a femaleA nation is called a woman.  this includes the males in the Church or nation as well as the females.  They are ONE, so how are you going to separate them and say that one rules over the other?  Can't be done.  Only in a perverted situation is this to apply.  Only under that old bondage of law, does this apply.  It is not God's way.  it is man's way.  (those churches had gone back to that bondage of law.)
Now don't go jumping to all kinds of false conclusions here.
 
This subject is much too deep to cover in a few posts.  It takes a lot of time and work to cover this.
 
Are you into this to learn truth or just to try and stop the daughters of God from teaching what God gives us?  You need to read Joel two and Acts two. 
Your sons and your DAUTHERS shall prophecy.
 
what do you think prophecy is besides speaking God's word?

Reply
 Message 5 of 16 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 1/17/2008 3:40 AM
God had not intended to shut up the mouths of any of his children.  We are ALL called to minister the word of God.
 
EQUALITY is the only thing which is of God.  Let me tell you this, but I cannot explain it fully now.  I will get to it as you allow me to show you.
 
WOMAN, to God, is our flesh,  both the flesh of men and the flesh of females.
When a man does not have the truth, and is not speaking from God, it is a WOMAN teaching.  This is what is forbidden.
 
When a woman has the holy Ghost and the truth, it is not her speaking, but the Father speaking in her.  thus, it is not a woman teaching.  It is a man, Christ.
 
Oh, I do hope you can receive this.  You show an ability to teach and go into the things of God.  Do not allow men and this false notion of misinterpreting the Word of God, stop you.
 
God and the World, need every soul teaching the Word of God.  We have a man,  CHRIST, in our heart.  It is HE who teaches, if we say truth.
 
Men, who teach falsely, are the forbidden woman.  Every man I have ever heard was in this catogory.  They are women.  They are fleshly.  If they were of Christ, they would not forbid the daughters of God to teach, preach, or anything else in Christ.  Also, this limitation is only under the LAW.  We are not under the law.
 
IN CHRIST THERE IS NEITHER  MALE,  NOR FEMALE.
 
It is only in the flesh or carnality, where MALE AND FEMALE are recognized.
 
So much to tell you.  but it will take time.

Reply
 Message 6 of 16 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 1/17/2008 3:41 AM
This is one of my old posts to another lady who was in our group at that time.  She had seen that law is the  fake gospel, which Paul condemned.
 
Here it is:
 
From: joie Sent: 11/24/2001 7:10 PM
Hi again, Spiritwalker,
 
I just re-read you message.  I saw a marvelous revelation in it.  You received a great revelation.
 
The fact that the 'law' brought by Moses is that 'other' gospel paul told them to let be cursed.  This is a very great truth.  It should be put on all boards.  So many are still deceived by thinking they are under the law.
 
You know, this shows that the law was actually given be a man.  Paul said his gospel was from Jesus.  Grace and truth was from Jesus.  It should have been obvious all the time:  for Paul said they constantly placed themselves back under the law.  That was his battle with all the churches.  That is also why so many things in his writtings seem to contradict others.  He is telling those back under the law how they must do if they go by the law.
 
Paul said if one preach some 'gospel' other than what he preached, let him be accursed.  Paul preached GRACE---NOT LAW.
 
You are right---LAW  is that other 'gospel'  which is not a gospel.
 
Glory to God for such a revelation.
 
That is why so many think women cannot preach and pastor:  they are looking at what Paul told them who put themselves back under the law.  It is the LAW.  He commended Phebe as a great pastor.
 
This message of yours needs to be a front page new message.
 
God bless you greatly.
 
Jo

Reply
 Message 7 of 16 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 1/17/2008 3:43 AM
I have studied this subject all my life seeking God's truth and his will.  I have found it.  He taught me.  Believe me, there is much more to this subject than meets the 'eye'.
 
So if you want the real truth, do not close up your mind and just listen to the teachers who have twisted all of God's word and kept the daughters of God under a bondage which God never placed her under, and which Jesus Christ delivered us from.
 
This subject covers a lot of ground, as does any subject in Scripture.  it all begins in the Garden of Eden with Adam and Eve.
 
Sure I prove this message with many Scriptures, from Genesis through Revelation, as I do anything I teach.
 
If you are willing to study and learn, God will show you his great truth.  whom the Son has set free is free indeed.  To be ruled over by anyone is not being free.  To be in subjection other than as we are all in subjection to one another,  both males and females, is not of God.
 
Abraham was told by God to listen to and do what Sarah told him, in the thing of sending away the bond child.  Sarah was the one, in this case, who had the revelation from God, and Abraham was told to listen and harken to Sarah.  That is the grace people.

Reply
 Message 8 of 16 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 1/17/2008 3:44 AM
From: <NOBR>MSN NicknameHandmaiden2</NOBR> Sent: 11/20/2007 12:40 PM
You haven't proven anything to me yet, but I am listening.

Reply
Recommend Delete    Message 61 of 88 in Discussion 
From: <NOBR>MSN NicknameFreeborn551</NOBR> Sent: 11/20/2007 5:56 PM
Good,  I am getting to it, soon as I can.  So many to have to answer to right now.  I am not forgetting you, dear sister.
You will be so glad if you can open your eyes and see this great truth.
 
First you need to learn what  'helpmeet' means. 

1Cor. 11:7-For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.

8-For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man.

9-Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.

Now, here it has been assumed for all these years that this means the woman was created for the ‘pleasure�?of or to be a type of ‘possession�?of the man. But that is not the case at all. For proof of this go back to Genesis.

2:18-And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone: I will make him an help meet for him.

Now look help up in the Strong’s Hebrew: it is #5826--It means this: to surround, i.e. protects or aid: help, succor.

The word, ‘meet�?has the same meaning. So this makes it clear that the woman’s natural use = the thing God created her for- was not for sex. This is not even mentioned in the original meaning of the word, help meet.

So, this explains that the woman was created for the purpose of surrounding, protecting, aiding, helping, and succoring the man. So, he needed her.


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 Message 9 of 16 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 1/17/2008 3:45 AM
From: <NOBR>MSN NicknameFreeborn551</NOBR> Sent: 11/20/2007 6:00 PM

Now, back to our Scripture in Cor. V10-For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.

Now, this is showing that the woman had the power on her head. This power was to be used to aid, help, and protect the man. She was HIS helper; not the other way around. We have never lived in a world where this condition prevailed; so we cannot imagine how this was.

V11-Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord.

See, in the Lord, neither one is self-sufficient.

V12-For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things of God.

So, what went wrong?

The answer is in Romans one.

Now, remember that we just read that neither one is without the other IN THE LORD.

Romans 1:18 & 19-shows that man once knew the truth, but held it in unrighteousness; therefore the wrath of God is on them.

V20-shows the invisible things of God are clearly seen and understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead.

So this shows that by the visible making of Adam and Eve, we are to see God’s power. Now where was the power placed? On the woman’s head; in her long hair. (1Cor. 11)

The power and Godhead was manifest in seeing them.

But how was this? It was in the way God made Eve to protect and aid Adam. This, dear people, is what was perverted; this is what brought about all the disease, violence, bloodshed, and every other evil in this world; their perverting this way of God with the man and the woman.

V21-Because that, when they (Adam and Eve) knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

V22-Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

V23-And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and four footed beasts, and creeping things.

Now, what was the ‘glory�?of God here? The man. How did they become vain? They thought they themselves could be gods. This took their minds into darkness = carnality. To be carnally minded is death.

Man was originally in the image of God = uncorruptible. But when he no longer desired the knowledge of God to be in his mind, he became corruptible; he became in the image of sinful man. Thus, the ‘glory�?of God, (the man) was changed; from the image of corruptible man to that of birds, then (lower) four footed beasts, then (lower) to creeping things. In other words, they began to worship themselves; then birds; then animals; then bugs. This is how low they sank because of thinking they could become gods.

Now in verses 24-28- we see that they both left the natural use of the woman. Remember that this is not speaking about sex. It is speaking about what the woman was created for = to surround, aid, help, & protect the man.

Because of the curse placed on them in the Garden of Eden, the man was made to rule over the one who was to have been his helper, his protection, his aid, and his scourer. So, she had to leave the natural use = i.e. being his protector.

He now no longer desired for his wife to be his companion or surround him; he now longed for other men to do this. He now believed that the woman could not help him; she could not protect him; she could not teach him; for after all, he now ruled over her. PERVERSION. Perversion of the original creation.

So, what did this condition lead to?


Reply
 Message 10 of 16 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 1/17/2008 3:45 AM
From: <NOBR>MSN NicknameFreeborn551</NOBR> Sent: 11/20/2007 6:04 PM

V28-God gave them over to a reprobate mind (remember, their mind was darkened- this is what that means).

V29-Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parent, without understanding, covenant breakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Now, men take pleasure in seeing people doing all these evil things which God hates for he hates God.

Now, that is the whole, sordid story of how low man sank, after he left the natural use of the woman, having the power on her head to protect him.

He lost his natural affection; he now burned in his lust for other men; this came about because as he surrounds himself with other men, instead of his wife, perversion sets in.

When the man looks to other men for spiritual leadership, fellowship, and companionship, he takes up this perverted spirit. For the woman is not there protecting him from this. If he had stayed in the fellowship and company of his wife, this perversion would not have set in.

They now take up all the other ‘vices�?mentioned above. God sent the flood and destroyed the ancient world for this very thing: what do you suppose the end of this perverted generation will be?

People, Jesus came and placed man and woman back into the rightful position with each other: but man has rejected this again and took it right back to man with man. So, once again it is headed to destruction.

Men would rather play ball with other men than be with their wives and children; they would rather fellowship other men in the word; they would rather go fishing with other men; go hunting, camping, preaching, just about anything you can think of -- men would rather do it with other men than their wives. They turn to other men for instruction in the word, for help, for aid, for fun, for fellowship, etc. This leads to the perverted lust for sex with other men.

This is where leaving the original, natural use of the woman led humanity. This is where the man ruling over the woman led the world.

Remember that this was PUNISHMENT TO BOTH THE MAN AND THE WOMAN. IT IS ETERNAL DAMNATION.

Gen. 6:12-sAnd God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had CORRUPTED HIS WAY UPON THE EARTH.

God’s way was for the woman to aid, protect, surround, help, comfort, and succor the man. When Men rule over the woman and stop her from being used of God, then this is corruption of God’s way upon earth. This has caused all the blood-shed, all the perversion, and all the family problems on this earth. When men can once again accept their wives as equals with themselves, deal with them according to this knowledge and love them as themselves, then once again joy, peace and happiness will flood the homes. The children will once again obey their parents and know how to be the right kind of companions when they grow up and marry, for they will have had the perfect example set before them.

But right now, most men abuse their wives, for the saw this in their daddies. They hated it then, but as they grow up, and believe that they are supposed to rule over this woman, and bring her into subjection to himself, then abuse sets in. They in turn do not feel the love and respect for the wife which they should have. They have been led to believe that God does not use the woman in the ministry, so they always turn to other men for their spiritual leadership, when God intended for this to come from the wife. Thus when God reveals his word to the woman, the man rejects this and destroys this work of God which He began in this woman.

Paul highly commended a woman minister, Phoebe. Paul had many women who helped him in the MINISTRY. Paul knew that God had joined us all back as ONE, where neither male nor female differences dwell. In Christ there is NEITHER male, nor female. We are all ONE. Until the Church gets back to this understanding and way of life, nothing will ever be right. This is why Jesus gave the first commission to carry the gospel of his resurrection to a WOMAN.

By: Jo Smith


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 Message 11 of 16 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 1/17/2008 3:46 AM
From: <NOBR>MSN NicknameFreeborn551</NOBR> Sent: 11/20/2007 6:49 PM

Adam and Eve were created on EQUAL grounds. She was there to help him keep things right, and not go into sin. He despised this, as she was the one with the power. Adam was not doing so good all alone. And it is not that he needed fleshly companionship, as men suppose. He was not doing good spiritually. Eve was not made to be a sex thing for Adam. She was made to lead him into a true walk with God. God had said it is not good for the man to be alone.

He hated her for being there. She was not placed there as a 'possession' or 'plaything' for Adam. She was there to lead him to spiritual perfection. She was his protection. This is what it means, she was made for the man.

It most certainly does NOT mean that she was there for his sexual pleasure. That is no where mentioned in Scripture. It was brought up by the carnal, lustful minds of men, in their fallen and degraded state of being reprobate.

Adam was not told to rule over Eve UNTIL AFTER THEY SINNED. It was the punishment for their sin. It was just as much punishment to him, as to her. It led him into more sin and violence than the world can stand. So God destroyed them with the flood, because of this very thing. It is now headed to destruction again, because of this very thing.....dealing treacherously with the wife of their youth!

when the man puts the wife, his helpmeet, down, he is bringing about confusion, evil, violence and rebellion to God’s way upon earth. Nothing but destruction can follow this rebellious way of life.

The entire Old Testament way of life was an ABOMINATION to God. So he did away with it and brought back up EQUALITY with Jesus and his Apostles.

That first and only true Church had all things EQUAL.

They were all ONE. There was neither male nor female, for they were all EQUALS again.

But now, men have taken it right back to bondage for the woman. That is the ONLY reason Paul told them THEIR women could not speak....they had gone right back to that dead head of LAW. This again caused them to be fallen from Grace and into eternal death.

Men, is it worth it to you, to just live to satisfy your own ungodly lust? You are to blame for all the evil, the violence and destruction brought up on this earth, from the Day Adam led Eve astray, until this day. Besides that, you will lose your soul in hell fire.

It will never be right on this earth, until the Woman is again in her rightful place as THE HELPMEET, or the aid, protection and succor, or leader of her husband. Look up the word in Strong's Hebrew. This is exactly what the word, Helpmeet, means.


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 Message 12 of 16 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 1/17/2008 3:46 AM
From: <NOBR>MSN NicknameFreeborn551</NOBR> Sent: 11/20/2007 6:56 PM
Jesus ignored Peter and John at his tomb, and waited and sent Mary out with the first message of the resurrection. She was the very first human person to know this glory.

Jesus did that for a definite purpose....that of exalting those of low degree. The women...whom the rebellious son, Adam, had drug down.

Oh I know that even the women are so down-trodden with false doctrine that none of you can accept this glorious truth.

But peace and joy and love and lack of violence will NEVER BE ON THIS EARTH UNTIL THINGS ARE SET BACK ON EQUAL GROUNDS AS GOD FIRST MADE IT.

HIS original way is the only right way.

He did not make a mistake when He gave the power to Eve. He did not make a mistake when He made her the HELPMEET. He did not make a mistake when he brought his holy son, Jesus, into this world WITHOUT THE HELP OF SINFUL MAN, BUT USED A HOLY WOMAN.

The evil was in that man, so God by-passed him in the birth of Jesus. Jesus was and is the SEED OF THE WOMAN.

In putting her down, you are putting Jesus down. He is HER SEED. He is not the man's seed.

Men are so carnal minded that they think God was speaking of natural childbirth when he multiplied her conception and sorrow. It was spiritual childbirth. That is why Christians have always had so much persecution. God said in your suffering you are made perfect. See? Suffering, sorrow in childbirth. It took Jesus to that cross! It began with Abel being killed, and Eve being so mistreated.

You men are so carnal minded, that all you can think of is sex. You cannot see spiritual things. It was not speaking of natural childbirth. She is not saved by natural childbearing. She can only be saved, same as you men, by SPIRITUAL CHILDBEARING.

Eve and Abel went through much sorrow and suffering to come forth as children of God. Adam and Cain were their persecutors. Tilling the ground means to bring people into bondage. So Adam and Cain brought Eve and Abel into bondage and tried to rule over them. When they clung to the things of God, they were persecuted and murdered.

Eve repented to God and became a Holy Woman as she was created to be. According to Malachi, Adam dealt treacherously against her and divorced her and took other wives. This truth has been hidden to the world, but God is now revealing the truth to me. All Scripture is telling us the things which happened back then. It is hidden all through Scripture, but the Spirit of truth reveals it.

Unless you bear a child for God, a son of God, you will end up in hellfire.

And since you reject the help of the wife, you have no help.

This is the truth of God 's word, no matter how many rise up and curse it.

You will be held accountable for what you do with this truth.


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 Message 13 of 16 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 1/17/2008 3:47 AM
From: <NOBR>MSN NicknameFreeborn551</NOBR> Sent: 11/20/2007 7:18 PM
Handmaiden2,  study these messages.  Unless you see the truth of what took place in the Garden of Eden, and why God said to Eve, thy husband shall rule over you,  you will never be able to see this truth and become a freeborn daughter of God, able to minister and called of God to minister.
 
So, I will keep giving you these things a bit at a time.  Read them, pray over them, and look up the Scriptures.  Men have not sought for this truth and therefore are leading humanity down the road to destruction.
 
Until every yoke is broken, and every child of God set free, this world is in for nothing but trouble and more trouble.  I am not wasting time giving you these messages about Adam and Eve.  When you see this, you will have a solid foundation to see the full truth of how we are ALL ONE.  This means EQUAL.
 
Jesus set the women up as the ministers.  I will prove this to you.  Keep reading.  In Christ, there is NEITHER male nor female.  If you are in Christ, we are all the same = children of God.  If one goes out of Christ, then they revert right back to the thing of man ruling over the woman....woman can't teach or preach.  ...women can't.......men can....but women can't.......LIES OF THE DEVIL.
 
God did not say this.  Men wrote to Paul claiming that women should not speak in the church.  Paul soundly REBUKES them for this.  It was not Paul saying it....he was merely repeating their words....then he blasts them with...WHAT?   CAME THE WORD OF GOD TO YOU?  Or out for you?    He was saying,  God did not tell us that.  Law says that, because law came from Adam.
 
God only told Eve what the results of her listening to him brought upon her and her daughters.  But Jesus Christ set us free from that bondAge, and sent out the very first evangelist, in the NT....the woman at the well, John 4.  He again sent out the very first message of resurrection......to his MEN disciples.....by a woman......Mary.  think on this.
There are women prophets and ministers all through Scripture.  Men just over look it.
 
Men ruling over anyone is a yoke of bondage.  Jesus said we must break every yoke.  For a man to still rule over a woman, or tell her she cannot do all the things in Christ that he can do,   is a yoke of bondage, which Jesus broke.  Men put it back.
 
Paul took it to law every time it is mentioned.  He took it back to Adam and Eve and that Garden law, brought about by their sin.  God did not make it that way to begin with.  So it was not God's way.  It was man's way.

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 Message 14 of 16 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 1/17/2008 3:48 AM
From: <NOBR>MSN NicknameFreeborn551</NOBR> Sent: 11/20/2007 7:21 PM
 It is a terrible, spiritual sin and crime and shame, when men seek to deceive women into thinking that they are not just as entitled to the things of God, as men are. Now to deceive women into thinking they must share a husband with other women, in the NT Freedom, is bad, but to deceive them into believing they cannot have the things of God and be just as used by God as anyone else, is an unspeakably evil thing. It is totally inexcusable.

The only reason I am taking up my time to write this, is for the sake of some women who might be honestly desiring the things of God, and are listening to men’s ugly and evil mouths declaring that they are not entitled to this. That is to doom the woman’s soul to hell fire. That is unforgivable.

Men go to where God told Eve that her husband will now rule over you. But they fail to see that this was not God’s original intention or desire. It was only punishment, to both of them, for their sin.

So to still hold to this is totally denying the deliverance which Jesus brought to the world. They are saying to you women that you are still being punished for sin and cannot get forgiveness. That is a lie of the most evil sort. It comes solely from an evil desire to still rule over you to be lifted up as god. This was Adam’s original sin and his evil desire.

Jesus told men to break every yoke and set everyone free. But proud men flat refuse to do this. Jesus put the proud men down from their ‘seats�?and exalted them of low degree, the women. So if Jesus exalted us, then we are as high as one can go. God did not make Eve to be a ‘possession�?or ‘toy�?or ‘pleasure thing�?for Adam. Adam had already fell into sin and rebellion, the fallen cherub of Eze. 28. God saw that it was not good for Adam to be alone, so he made him a helpmeet. This means one to aid, protect, and succor the man. But Adam was jealous and envious and hated this helpmeet. So he set out to make her fall, so he could get control over her. This is just what he did, as he deceived her into taking of that law.

Men say that God told them they could have two wives. God also told them to kill animals for their sins. Yet the Word of God clearly shows that God hated both things. He shows that animal blood could never take away sins and that God hated this thing. So why then did God tell them that? Because of their evil and hard heart. God let them choose their own way. I have written many messages with Scripture proving all of this, so am just talking to women in this message. I know that most men will never accept God’s truth and see that women are equal to themselves, always have been and always will be. But she was brought under the rulership of man because of letting him deceive her into sacrificing an animal and that set Adam up as god. He was the one who she offered that blood to. He was already claiming to be god. Eze. 28 and Isa 14.

It was the man whom God created and placed into the Garden of Eden. God said this in Eze 28. Men claim this was an angel, to hid the fact that it was the man. But God said it was a MAN. He never said it was an angel. Men think nothing about adding their own thoughts to God’s word.



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 Message 15 of 16 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 1/17/2008 3:49 AM
From: <NOBR>MSN NicknameFreeborn551</NOBR> Sent: 11/20/2007 7:36 PM

Men claim that monogamy came from the Roman Church. That is a lie. It came from God. God made Adam only ONE wife. He rebuked Adam, In Hosea for dealing treacherously against this wife of youth. God said he made him one wife. Adam is the only man to whom God ever made a wife, so this has to be speaking of Adam. Of course it also speaks to all men who take more than this one wife. She is the wife of his covenant. So if he takes more than one, he has fallen from the covenant. He does not have a helpmeet.

God made man only one wife. So this proves that monogamy was God’s only plan for man. Men went into sin and chose their own way. So God placed them under that law and there is no salvation under that law. They offered up animals to God, but it was an abomination to God. They took wives of all they chose, but God sent the flood and destroyed them because of this evil.

Since that flood, there was no more sons of God, until Jesus came. So the sons of God cannot have more than one wife. Only sons of Belial can do this.

They claim that women cannot have the things of man. So what is that? It most certainly is not the things of Christ, for in Christ there is neither bond nor free, neither male, nor female.

So to still say one has to be male or female, in the things of God, is to still be under that dead old law covenant of the blood of animals. It is not in Christ.

You cannot be in the kingdom of Christ and live such an ungodly life. You cannot deny women the things of God and be right with God yourself.

 Women received the Holy Ghost on the Day of Pentecost, same as men. Jesus sent women out with the message first. Jesus exalted the woman back to the place God put Eve in the first place. Only Satanic men drag them back down to bondage. All who do so are in total rebellion to Jesus.  To be ruled over, by anyone, is to be in bondage.  This is not Christian.  Christians, male and female, are all FREE.  Jesus set us all free.

Scripture is full of women whom God used, both in the OT and the New. The Church is made up of both men and women, but they are all ONE. They are all FEMALE TO GOD. So if woman cannot preach and teach, then neither can men.

Only when you are still in the flesh, walking in rebellion, does this apply. In Christ, we walk in the Spirit, not in the flesh. My Holy Ghost can teach same as anyone’s. If you do not teach from the Holy Ghost, saying only what Scripture says, then you are forbidden to teach, for it is in your flesh. When you make a difference between male and female, you are in the flesh and therefore forbidden to teach. In Christ there is NEITHER.

We are all ONE, in Christ. That means the very same, equals. To reject this, is old Adam-rebellion against the ways of God.

To say that a woman desires to be as man, because she hungers for the things of God, is nothing but the absolute lowest of vile and foolish doctrine from hell. I have ALWAYS desired the things of God, but I most certainly have never desired to be anything but a WOMAN. I happen to love being a woman. I think most women do also. I have never known of a woman who desired to have a man’s body. I dare say that more perverted men desire to be women, than the other way around. This is just foolish and low thinking, trying to bring the daughters of God down, because you stupid men have no truth to teach from.

Not one son of God, since the flood, ever had more than one wife. The sons of Satan did this. When the Sons of God, on the other side of the flood, took up this evil practice, God said their thoughts were only evil and destroyed them.

Those OT men who followed their example were not in the kingdom of Christ. That was not given until after Jesus arose from the dead. Those who had faith and love for God were brought into the kingdom of Christ after he died on that cross. They without us cannot be made perfect. They will come into the kingdom at the resurrection. So they are not the example for children of God.

There is absolutely nothing in the kingdom of Christ which women are not entitled to. There are NT prophetesses and teachers. Only those who went back to law are not able to do so. But then men who are in the flesh are also forbidden.

Women in the Spirit are the male teachers, for it is not us, but the Christ or Holy Ghost in us who speaks. When I speak the Word of God, that is not coming from a human being, it is of the Holy Ghost. Jesus said, it is not you who speak, but the Father speaking in you.

Why cannot you recognize this? It is only because of your own carnal and evil desires and mind. That is the old serpent, devil, Satan, Adam. It is you who are forbidden to teach God’s Word, for you do speak lies.

To deny women the things of God is the most evil thing anyone can do. God used women just the same as men. The Church is neither male nor female. The entire Church of Pentecost went about everywhere preaching and teaching the things of God. It was the Church, not some man. The Church is both men and women. Those who have the Holy Ghost are CHILDREN of God and all are able to minister.

So you foolish men are cheating those women of becoming Daughters of God and are cheating God of the service and glory these Daughters of God would bring to him. You are flat refusing and rebuking God’s Word, that your sons and your Daughters SHALL PROPHESY. How is she going to prophesy and keep her mouth shut? It is the height of foolishness and evil.

Daughters of God, run for your eternal life. Run to freedom. Flee these wolves who hate the way of God. Once, they held me down, and I would cry my soul out, knowing that God was at work in my life, and yet thinking that it was not truly of Scripture.

I sought God for many years for the answer. Then he spoke to me and said, That is of law. You are not under law. In Christ there is neither male nor female. So then I was FREE.

No man can take me away from God now. God set me free. Jesus set me free. Women, if you desire the things of God, seek him. He will set you free.

I will never allow any man to take me away from the things of God again. It is of Satan. No true Son of God would desire to cheat you of your rightful place in God.

Phoebe was a pastor of a church. She was highly recommended by Paul. Oh sure, men will try to prevent you from seeing this. But if you run all the references in the Strong’s Hebrew and Greek dictionaries, for this word, Servant, in Romans 16, you will see that it means this very thing.

If you allow men to keep you from serving God and being a minister, as all Christians are supposed to do, then you will cheat yourself of eternal life.

Women, start studying the Scripture, praying and seeking for God’s truth. Let God talk to you. Stop listening to lying men. They only want to keep you in servitude. But Jesus said set us free.

Break every yoke. Men, you are still under bondage yourself, when you hold them as servants. A true Wife is not a servant. She is your equal. She was to be a helpmeet, not a servant.

I only want to bring you all into God’s glorious victory. It is not there for the man, until he sets the woman free, also. Marian was used of God to bring out the Israelites, the same as was Moses and Aaron. She was a prophetess.

A prophetess speaks the words of God same as a prophet.


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 Message 16 of 16 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 1/17/2008 3:50 AM

This is the Strongs meaning for the word, Servant, in Romans 16, as pertaining to Phoebe. 1249 // diakonov // diakonos // dee-ak'-on-os //

probably from an obsolete diako (to run on errands, cf
1377 ); TDNT - 2:88,152; n m/f

AV - minister 20, servant 8, deacon 3; 31

1) one who executes the commands of another, esp. of a master,
a servant, attendant, minister

Here is one of the meanings: 1c2) of the preacher of the gospel

This is another of the meanings: 1b3) of any one ministering or rendering service

The above was for the word, ‘servant�? This is for the word, succourer. Paul said Phoebe had been a succourer of many, and himself also.

4368 // prostativ // prostatis // pros-tat'-is //

from a derivative of
4291 ; n f

AV - succourer 1; 1

1) a woman set over others
2) a female guardian, protectress, patroness, caring for the affairs
of others and aiding them with her resources

That word, protectress is one of the meanings of the word, Helpmeet. So we see from this that Jesus has placed the woman back into the original place of being the one to aid and protect the man. She is once again a helpmeet.

This is from that link, 4291:

4291 // proisyhmi // proistemi // pro-is'-tay-mee //

from
4253 and 2476 ; TDNT - 6:700,*; v

AV - rule 5, maintain 2, be over 1; 8

1) to set or place before
1a) to set over
1b) to be over, to superintend, preside over
1c) to be a protector or guardian
1c1) to give aid
1d) to care for, give attention to
1d1) profess honest occupations

See then, that this solidly proves to be the same meaning as the word, Helpmeet.

This proves that Phoebe was over that church as minister, protector, the one to aid and reside over.

This is from the above link 4253:

4253 // pro // pro // pro //

a primary preposition; TDNT - 6:683,935; prep

AV - before 44, above 2, above ... ago 1, or ever 1; 48

1) before

Now that shows that she was above the others and before them.

This is the next reference, 2476.

2476 // isthmi // histemi // his'-tay-mee //

a prolonged form of a primary // staw // stao // stah'-o // (of the same
meaning, and used for it in certain tenses); TDNT - 7:638,1082; v

AV - stand 116, set 11, establish 5, stand still 4, stand by 3,
misc 17, vr stand 2; 158

1) to cause or make to stand, to place, put, set
1a) to bid to stand by, [set up]
1a1) in the presence of others, in the midst, before judges,
before members of the Sanhedrin;
1a2) to place
1b) to make firm, fix establish
1b1) to cause a person or a thing to keep his or its place
1b2) to stand, be kept intact (of family, a kingdom), to escape
in safety
1b3) to establish a thing, cause it to stand
1b31) to uphold or sustain the authority or force of anything
1c) to set or place in a balance
1c1) to weigh: money to one (because in very early times before
the introduction of coinage, the metals used to be weighed)
2) to stand
2a) to stand by or near
2a1) to stop, stand still, to stand immovable, stand firm
2a1a) of the foundation of a building
2b) to stand
2b1) continue safe and sound, stand unharmed, to stand ready or
prepared
2b2) to be of a steadfast mind
2b3) of quality, one who does not hesitate, does not waiver

Now all of that shows that Phoebe was the foundation of that church. She was of quality, as Paul said, and firmly established in the things of God. All of the above comes from the word, Succourer. Paul said Phoebe had been a succourer of many. She was some more powerful minister, even recommended by the great Apostle, Paul. He said, assist her in anything she has need of.

Here is Strong’s meaning for the word, Meet, in helpmeet:

05828 // rze // `ezer // ay'-zer //

from
05826 ; TWOT - 1598a; n m

AV - help 19, help meet 2; 21

1) help, succour
1a) help, succour
1b) one who helps

See then, that it has the very same meaning as that given for Phoebe, or being the one who succours.

This is the online Strongs. My own book gives this help, in helpmeet, also to mean aid and surround, and protect.

So Eve was given to Adam to help him and surround him and protect him. She was not made for his sexual pleasure. That is not even once connected with the meanings of this word, HELPMEET.

That was not Eve’s purpose. She was not made for a servant, either. She was there to stand him up and help lead him. Now men do hate this true meaning of Helpmeet. Adam also hated it, and destroyed it, by deceiving her and bringing her into bondage. God did not set her in bondage. Her listening to Adam brought this about. But Jesus delivered us from that bondage.

We see Phoebe in the rightful place of women of God. We see Paul highly commending this powerful Lady Minister.

Praise my God for his glorious TRUTH.


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