Clark had been asking Rob about the differences among the various schools of astrology, stressing that there were many similarities as well. Clark said "Well, a square is always a square, right?" And Rob responded, unequivocally, "No..." Puzzled, Clark asked him, "Well, then, when is a square not a square??"

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Rob:
"When a planet squares its own ruler in dignity."

Clark for Access:NewAge:
"And then, its a...?"

Rob:
"It's more like a sextile. Another answer is when it's in signs of long ascension. That's like a trine. I think that's one thing traditional western and Jyotish have in common is reversals - when a thing indicates the reverse of what you would expect."

Access:NewAge:
"Can you give me an example?"

Rob:
"The first case I gave you with the square is such an example. Here is a specific one. This friend of mine was told by a traditional astrologer that she would never be successful in marriage, because Uranus was in the first house squaring the ruler of the seventh house. Uranus was in ... somewhere between 10 and 13 degrees of Cancer squaring Jupiter, I think in Aries. This person has recently been married, and it looks like a successful marriage. The issue is that Jupiter is the lord by exaltation and bound of the degree in which Uranus is located. Jupiter is in triplicity in the chart. This means that Jupiter is dignified - not hugely, but well enough. This kind of received square is treated by this traditionalist's very own medieval teacher as being like a sextile in its effect.

Access:NewAge:
"I see..."

Rob:
"Does it lose all of its square nature? No... but it's easier to make it work well."

Access:NewAge:
"That's a beautiful example, how the energy can be used. Okay. So in that example you looked at the degree..."

Rob:
"...of the Uranus. And determined that Jupiter was the major ruler of it.

Access:NewAge:
"And those degrees are given traditional rulerships?"

"... Raphael was the one who assigned Uranus to Aquarius. And the first thing that I understand about Raphael was that he was a terrible astrologer by any standards - traditional or modern...."

Rob:
"Yes, they are called bounds or terms, and triplicities also. They are of the whole sign, but there are three whole sign rulerships - domicile, exaltation and triplicity. Most moderns don't know about triplicity."

Access:NewAge:
"In Jyotish, every two and one-half degrees has some meaning, and then within that system, the same aspect would achieve something else, but similar."

Rob:
"A similar role is played by the bounds in Western Astrology. And they show up also in the Greek material - there are two kinds, there is the two and one-half, and there is a slightly less than which is actually 13 divisions of the sign.