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PHILOSOPHY : Allogenes (Nag Hammadi Scrolls )Gnostic
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 Message 1 of 13 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameCaringLeomoon  (Original Message)Sent: 3/2/2008 3:22 AM
Allogenes is mentioned in the Gospel of Judas as well, as the Christ:
Here, he describes......."God" or "All That Is" as best he can
 
(5 lines missing)
... since they are perfect individuals and dwell all together, joined with the mind, the guardian which I provided, who taught you (sg.). And it is the power that exists within you that often extended itself as word from the Triple-Powered One, that One of all those who truly exist with the Immeasurable One, the eternal Light of the Knowledge that appeared, the male virginal Youth, the first of the Aeons from a unique triple-powered Aeon, the Triple-Powered-One who truly exists, for when he was stilled, was extended and when he was extended, he became complete and he received power from all of them. He knows himself and the perfect Invisible Spirit.
 
And he came to be in an Aeon who knows that she knows That One. And she became Kalyptos, who acted in those whom she knows. He is a perfect, invisible, noetic Protophanes-Harmedon. And empowering the individuals, she is a Triple-Male. And being individually ...
(5 lines missing)
... individual on the one hand, they are together on the other hand, since she is an existence of theirs, and she sees them all also truly. She contains the divine Autogenes.

When she knew her Existence and when she stood, she brought This One (masc.), since he saw them all existing individually as he is. And when they become as he is, they shall see the divine Triple-Male, the power that is higher than God. He is the Thought of all these who exist together. If he ponders them, he ponders the great male [...] noetic Protophanes, the procession of these.

 When he sees it, he sees also those who truly exist and the procession of those who are together. And when he has seen these, he has seen the Kalyptos. And if he sees one of the hidden ones, he sees the Aeon of Barbelo. And as for the unbegotten offspring of That One, if one sees how he lives ...
(4 lines missing)
... you have heard about the abundance of each one of them certainly.

But concerning the invisible, spiritual Triple-Powered-One, hear! He exists as an Invisible One who is incomprehensible to them all. He contains them all within himself, for they all exist because of him. He is perfect, and he is greater than perfect, and he is blessed. He is always One and he exists in them all, being ineffable, unnameable, being One who exists through them all - he whom, should one discern him, one would not desire anything that exists before him among those that possess existence, for he is the source from which they were all emitted.

He is prior to perfection. He was prior to every divinity, and he is prior to every blessedness, since he provides for every power. And he <is> a nonsubstantial substance, since he is a God over whom there is no divinity, the transcending of whose greatness and beauty ...
(5 lines missing)
... power. It is not impossible for them to receive a revelation of these things, if they come together. Since it is impossible for the individuals to comprehend the Universal One situated in the place that is higher than perfect, they apprehend by means of a First Thought - not as Being alone, but it is along with the latency of Existence that he confers Being.

 He provides everything for himself, since it is he who shall come to be when he recognizes himself. And he is One who subsists as a cause and source of Being, and an immaterial material and an innumerable number and a formless form and a shapeless shape and a powerlessness and a power and an insubstantial substance and a motionless motion and an inactive activity.

 Yet he is a provider of provisions and a divinity of divinity - but whenever they apprehend, they participate the first Vitality and an undivided activity, an hypostasis of the First One from the One who truly exists.

And a second activity [...] however, is the [...]. He is endowed with blessedness and goodness, because when he is recognized as the traverser of the boundlessness of the Invisible Spirit that subsists in him, it (the boundlessness) turns him to it (the invisible spirit) in order that it might know what is within him and how he exists.

 And he was becoming salvation for every one by being a point of departure for those who truly exist, for through him his knowledge endured, since he is the one who knows what he is. But they brought forth nothing beyond themselves, neither power nor rank nor glory nor aeon, for they are all eternal.

He is Vitality and Mentality and That-Which-Is. For then That-Which-Is constantly possesses its Vitality and Mentality, and Life has Vitality possesses non-Being and Mentality. Mentality possesses Life and That-Which-Is. And the three are one, although individually they are three.

Now after I heard these things, my son Messos, I was afraid, and I turned toward the multitude [...] thought [...] gives power to those who are capable of knowing these things by a revelation that is much greater. And I was capable, although flesh was upon me. I heard from you about these things and about the doctrine that is in them, since the thought which is in me distinguished the things that are beyond measure as well as the unknowables. Therefore I fear that my doctrine may have become something beyond what is fitting.

And then, my son Messos, the all-glorious One, Youel, spoke to me again. She made a revelation to me and said: "No one is able to hear these things except the great powers alone, O Allogenes. A great power was put upon you, which the Father of the All, the Eternal, put upon you before you came to this place, in order that those things that are difficult to distinguish you might distinguish and those things that are unknown to the multitude you might know, and that you might escape (in safety) to the One who is yours, who was first to save and who does not need to be saved ...


(5 lines missing)
... to you a form and a revelation of the invisible, spiritual Triple-Powered One, outside of which dwells an undivided, incorporeal, eternal knowledge.

As with all the Aeons, the Aeon of Barbelo exists also endowed with the types and forms of those who truly exist, the image of Kalyptos. And endowed with the intellectual Word of these, he bears the noetic male Protophanes like an image, and he acts within the individuals, either with craft or with skill or with partial instinct. He is endowed with the divine Autogenes like an image, and he knows each one of these. He acts separately and individually, continuing to rectify the failures from nature. He is endowed with the divine Triple-Male as salvation for them all, in cooperation with the Invisible Spirit. He is a word from a counsel, <he> is the perfect Youth. And this hypostasis is a ...

(6 lines missing)

... my soul went slack, and I fled and was very disturbed. And I turned to myself and saw the light that surrounded me and the Good that was in me, I became divine.

And the all-glorious One, Youel, anointed me again and she gave power to me. She said, "Since your instruction has become complete, and you have known the Good that is within you, hear concerning the Triple-Powered One those things that you will guard in great silence and great mystery, because they are not spoken to anyone except those who are worthy, those who are able to hear: nor is it fitting to speak to an uninstructed generation concerning the Universal One that is higher than perfect. But you have <these> because of the Triple-Powered One, the One who exists in blessedness and goodness, the One who is responsible for all these.

"There exists within him much greatness. Inasmuch as he is one in a ...
(5 lines missing)
... of the First Thought, which does not fall away from those who dwell in comprehension and knowledge and understanding. And That One moved motionlessly in that which governs, lest he sink into the boundless by means of another activity of Mentality. And he entered into himself and he appeared, being all-encompassing, the Universal One that is higher than perfect.

"Indeed it is not through me that he is to such a degree anterior to knowledge. Whereas there is no possibility for complete comprehension, he is (nevertheless) known. And this is so because of the third silence of Mentality and the second undivided activity which appeared in the First Thought, that is, the Aeon of Barbelo, together with the Indivisible One of the divisible likenesses and the Triple-Powered-One and the non-substantial Existence."

<Then> the power appeared by means of an activity that is at rest and silent, although it uttered a sound thus: zza zza zza. But when she (Youel) heard the power and she was filled ...
(5 lines missing)
... "Thou art [...], Solmis! [...] according to the Vitality that is thine, and the first activity which derives from divinity. Thou art great, Armedon! Thou art perfect, Epiphaneus!

"And according to that activity of thine, the second power and the Mentality which derives from blessedness: Autoer, Beritheus, Erigenaor, Orimenios, Aramen, Alphleges, Elelioupheus, Lalameus, Yetheus, Noetheus, thou art great! He who knows thee knows the Universal One! Thou art One, thou art One, He who is good, Aphredon! Thou art the Aeon of the Aeons, He who is perpetually!"

Then she praised the Universal One, saying "Lalameus, Noetheus, Senaon, Asine[us, ...]riphanios, Mellephaneus, Elemaoni, Smoun, Optaon, He Who Is! Thou art He Who Is, the Aeon of Aeons, the Unbegotten, who art higher than the unbegotten (ones), Yatomenos, thou alone for whom all the unborn ones were begotten, the Unnameable One! ... (10 lines missing) ... knowledge."

Now after I heard these things, I saw the glories of the perfect individuals and the all-perfect ones who exist together, and the all-perfect ones who are before the perfect ones.

Again the greatly glorious One, Youel, said to me, "O Allogenes, in an unknowing knowledge you know that the Triple-Powered One exists before the glories. They do not exist among those who exist. They do not exist together with those who exist nor those who truly exist. Rather, all these exist as divinity and blessedness and existence, and as nonsubstantiality and non-being existence."

And then I prayed that the revelation might occur to me. And then the all-glorious one, Youel, said to me, "O Allogenes, of course, the Triple-Male is something beyond substance. Yet were he insubstantial ...
(9 lines missing)
... those who exist in association with the generation of those who truly exist. The self-begotten ones exist with the Triple-Male.

"If you seek with a perfect seeking, then you shall know the Good that is in you; then you will know yourself as well, (as) one who derives from the God who truly pre-exists. For after a hundred years there shall come to you a revelation of That One by means of Salamex and Semen and [...] the Luminaries of the Aeon of Barbelo. And that beyond what is fitting for you, you shall not know at first, so as not to forfeit your kind. And if so, then when you receive a conception of That One, then you are filled with the word to completion. Then you become divine, and you become perfect. You receive them ...
(4 lines missing)
... the seeking [...] the Existence [...] if it apprehends anything, it is apprehended by that one and by the very one who is comprehended. And then he becomes greater who comprehends and knows than he who is comprehended and known. But if he descends to his nature, he is less, for the incorporeal natures have not associated with any magnitude; having this power, they are everywhere and they are nowhere, since they are greater than every magnitude, and less than every exiguity."

Now after the all-glorious One, Youel, said these things, she separated from me and left me. But I did not despair of the words that I heard. I prepared myself therein and I deliberated with myself for a hundred years. And I rejoiced exceedingly, since I was in a great light and a blessed path because those whom I was worthy to see as well as those whom I was worthy to hear (are) those whom it is fitting that the great powers alone ... (5 lines missing) ... of God.

When the completion of the one hundred years drew nigh, it brought me a blessedness of the eternal hope full of auspiciousness. I saw the good divine Autogenes; and the Savior, who is the youthful, perfect Triple-Male Child; and his goodness, the noetic perfect Protophanes-Harmedon; and the blessedness of the Kalyptos; and the primary origin of the blessedness, the Aeon of Barbelo, full of divinity; and the primary origin of the one without origin, the spiritual, invisible Triple-Powered One, the Universal One that is higher than perfect.

When <I> was taken by the eternal Light out of the garment that was upon me, and taken up to a holy place whose likeness cannot be revealed in the world, then by means of a great blessedness I saw all those about whom I had heard. And I praised all of them and I stood upon my knowledge and I inclined to the knowledge of the Universals, the Aeon of Barbelo.

And I saw holy powers by means of the Luminaries of the virginal male Barbelo telling me that I would be able to test what happens in the world: "O Allogenes, behold your blessedness, how it silently abides, by which you know your proper self and, seeking yourself, withdraw to the Vitality that you will see moving.

And although it is impossible for you to stand, fear nothing; but if you wish to stand, withdraw to the Existence, and you will find it standing and at rest after the likeness of the One who is truly at rest and (who) embraces all these silently and inactively.

 And when you receive a revelation of him by means of a primary revelation of the Unknown One - the One whom if you should know him, be ignorant of him - and you become afraid in that place, withdraw to the rear because of the activities. And when you become perfect in that place, still yourself. And in accordance with the pattern that indwells you, know likewise that it is this way in all such (matters) after this pattern. And do not further dissipate, so that you may be able to stand, and do not desire to be active, lest you fall in any way from the inactivity in you of the Unknown One. Do not know him, for it is impossible; but if by means of an enlightened thought you should know him, be ignorant of him."

Now I was listening to these things as those ones spoke them. There was within me a stillness of silence, and I heard the Blessedness whereby I knew <my> proper self.

And I withdrew to the Vitality as I sought <myself>, and I joined into it, and I stood, not firmly but silently. And I saw an eternal, intellectual, undivided motion that pertains to all the formless powers, (which is) unlimited by limitation.

And when I wanted to stand firmly, I withdrew to the Existence, which I found standing and at rest, like an image and likeness of what is conferred upon me by a revelation of the Indivisible One and the One who is at rest. I was filled with revelation by means of a primary revelation of the Unknowable One. As though I were ignorant of him, I knew him, and I received power by him. Having been permanently strengthened, I knew the One who exists in me, and the Triple-Powered One, and the revelation of his uncontainableness. And by means of a primary revelation of the First One unknowable to them all, the God who is beyond perfection, I saw him and the Triple-Powered One that exists in them all. I was seeking the ineffable and Unknowable God - whom if one should know him, he would be absolutely ignorant of him - the Mediator of the Triple-Powered One who subsists in stillness and silence and is unknowable.

And when I was confirmed in these matters, the powers of the Luminaries said to me, "Cease hindering the inactivity that exists in you, by seeking incomprehensible matters; rather, hear about him in so far as it is possible by means of a primary revelation and a revelation."

 

Description of "All That IS"...?

"Now he is something insofar as he exists in that he either exists and will become, or acts or knows, although he lives without Mind or Life or Existence or Non-Existence, incomprehensibly. And he is something along with his proper being. He is not left over in some way, as if he yields something that is assayed or purified or that receives or gives.

 And he is not diminished in any way, whether by his own desire, or whether he gives or receives through another. Neither does he have any desire of himself nor from another; it does not affect him. Rather, neither does he give anything by himself, lest he become diminished in another respect; nor for this reason does he need Mind, or Life, is indeed anything at all. He is superior to the Universals in his privation and unknowability, that is, the non-being existence, since he is endowed with silence and stillness lest he be diminished by those who are not diminished.

"He is neither divinity nor blessedness nor perfection. Rather, it (this triad) is an unknowable entity of him, not that which is proper to him; rather, he is another one superior to the blessedness and the divinity and perfection. For he is not perfect, but he is another thing that is superior. He is neither boundless, nor is he bounded by another. Rather, he is something superior. He is not corporeal. He is not incorporeal. He is not great. He is not small. He is not a number. He is not a creature. Nor is he something that exists, that one can know. But he is something else of himself that is superior, which one cannot know.

"He is primary revelation and knowledge of himself, as it is he alone who knows himself. Since he is not one of those that exist, but is another thing, he is superior to superlatives, even in comparison to what is his and not his. He neither participates in age nor does he participate in time. He does not receive anything from anything else. He is not diminishable, neither does he diminish anything, nor is he undiminishable. But he is self-comprehending, as something so unknowable that he exceeds those who excel in unknowability.

"He is endowed with blessedness and perfection and silence - not <the blessedness> nor the perfection - and stillness. Rather it (these attributes) is an entity of him that exists, which one cannot know, and which is at rest. Rather they are entities of him unknowable to them all.

"And he is much higher in beauty than all those that are good, and he is thus unknowable to all of them in every respect. And through them all he is in them all, not only as the unknowable knowledge that is proper to him. And he is united with the ignorance that sees him.

 Whether <one sees> in what way he is unknowable, or sees him as he is in every respect, or would say that he is something like knowledge, he has sinned against him, being liable to judgment because he did not know God. He will not be judged by That One who is neither concerned for anything nor has any desire, but it (judgment) <is> from himself, because he did not find the origin that truly exists.

 

Note: Here Allogenes is explaining that our OWN souls will punish our own selves, and judge us (our aspects), or personalties as we return to our Soul after death .....He explains that God does not  judge us, WE judge us.!   as we were given free will, which does not reduce God.  CLM.(note) 

He was blind, apart from the eye of revelation that is at rest, the (one) that is activated, the (one) from the Triple-Power of the First Thought of the Invisible Spirit. This one thus exists from ...
(15 lines missing)
... something [...] set firmly on the [...], a beauty and a first emergence of stillness and silence and tranquility and unfathomable greatness.

When he appeared, he did not need time nor <did he partake> of eternity. Rather of himself he is unfathomably unfathomable

. He does not activate himself so as to become still. He is not an existence, lest he be in want. Spatially, he is corporeal, while properly he is incorporeal. He has non-being existence. He exists for all of them unto himself without any desire. But he is a greater summit of greatness. And he is higher than his stillness, in order that ...
(15 lines missing)
... he saw them, and empowered them all, although they do not concern themselves with That One at all, nor, if one should receive from him, does he receive power. Nothing activates him in accordance with the Unity that is at rest. For he is unknowable; he is an airless place of boundlessness. Since he is boundless and powerless and nonexistent, he was not giving Being. Rather he contains all of these in himself, being at rest (and) standing out of the one who stands continually, since there had appeared an Eternal Life, the Invisible and Triple-Powered Spirit which is in all of these who exist. And it surrounds them all, being higher than them all. A shadow ...
(15 lines missing)
... he was filled with power. And he stood before them, empowering them all, and he filled them all."

And concerning all of these things you have heard certainly. And do not seek anything more, but go. We do not know whether the Unknowable One has angels or gods, or whether the One who is at rest was containing anything within himself except the stillness, which is he, lest he be diminished. It is not fitting to spend more time seeking. It was appropriate that you (pl.) know, and that they speak with another one. But you will receive them ...
(5 lines missing)
... and he said to me, "Write down the things that I shall tell you, and of which I shall remind you, for the sake of those who will be worthy after you. And you will leave this book upon a mountain and you will adjure the guardian: "Come Dreadful One".

And after he said these (things), he separated from me. But I was full of joy, and I wrote this book which was appointed for me, my son Messos, in order that I might disclose to you the (things) that were proclaimed before me in my presence. And at first I received them in great silence, and I stood by myself, preparing myself. These are the things that were disclosed to me, O my son Messos ...
(13 lines missing)
... proclaim them, O my son Messos, as the seal for all the books of Allogenes.

 

Allogenes

Selection made from James M. Robinson, ed., The Nag Hammadi Library, revised edition. HarperCollins, San Francisco, 1990.


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 Message 2 of 13 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameCaringLeomoonSent: 3/7/2008 2:32 AM
As in Genesis , creation begins with God's command. The first to come into being is the great angel, the divine Autogenes, whose name literally means "The self-begoten" .
 In a number of related works foundin Egypt, Autpgenes is associated with Christ.
 
Here he comes forth from the cloud of light.  From antoehr cloud comes 4 angels to attend him. These form the original pentad - the five who are the  highest in the divine realm.  5 others are "First over Chaos", (Judas Gospel) .........incuidng the highest , Seth-Christ.
Thus these 5 provide the model for ordering the material world below.
 
Next , Autogenes, brings forth "Adamas" and appoints a luminary to rule over his realms. Immeasurable myriads are created to worship the highest, most luminous being in each realm of light.
This pattern is important, for it indicates that ruling is crucial to the divine order.
 
The entire universe was ordered this way, by God's command.
Jesus returns to focus more closely upon the figure of Adamas.
His elevated status is emphasized - he dwells in the first cloud ......which even the angels cannot transcend it.
Adamas, who is the heavenly model for the human Adam, brigns forth a child in his image and likeness, Seth and with Seth an "imperhishable race comes to exist".
Through an act of will Adamas brought forth 72 Luminaries. Each of those brought forth 5 additional luminaries, for a total of 360.
 
(note: could these be a reference to the 5 planets, known at that time?)
   Jup, Venus, Mars, Mercury & Saturn?.......as additonal luminaries?)
What is the number 360 about? that is the size of the    zodiac....could it be this?
 
I think it's on the next page, see post next.
 
 
 

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 Message 3 of 13 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameCaringLeomoonSent: 3/7/2008 2:42 AM
Is Allogenes (the name of this thread, the same entity as Autogenes? the Christ?.......not sure yet.
 
continued: from "The Gospel of Judas" page 148 Pagels&King:
 
........"The heavinly realm is beyond comprehension  - even by angels. It is boundless, and hence cannot be measured or limited in any way. The reader is to imagine a higher , invisible reality.
 
Chapter 10:3-5  "In this realm exists the highest God , whom Jesus calls the "Great INvisible Spirit"  This great diety is beyond all comprehension - unseen, ungraspable by even he heart, such that no  name can truly express it's essence.  Metaphorically, this realm is like a cloud - it has substance but can't be grasped; it can be seen, but what lies in it is obscure.
Yet, it is also light - radiant, life giving, illuminating .
THIS is the true God, the "spirit of God" that "moved over the face of the  waters" described in Genesis is but a reflection of him.
 
The notion that God cannot be known or seen or comprehended is common in Jewish & Christian texts
 
But in the Gospel of Judas, Jesus imparts seret wisdom to Judas - wisdom hidden from the rulers of this world and unknown to humanity.
This revealed knowledge is contrasted with the "polluted and perishable wisdom " claimed by those who are ruled by the lower angels, of this world (i.e. the planets & Solar System they are a part of).....deb's note.
 
 

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 Message 4 of 13 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameCaringLeomoonSent: 3/7/2008 2:54 AM
Jesus speaks further (in the Gospel) of the lower angels, and  heavenly cosmos (the Solar System we are familiar with no doubt)
The realm that contains the race of Adamas.,along with the  knowledge and the angel El; these appear to be references to the matieral world of a kind of earthly paradise that contains, the "Tree of Knowledge" and where El walks and the race of Adam is born into.
 
We see here then, the beginning of the accountof the creation of the lower world, but with a clear emphasis on elements of it's divine character.
It's in contrast then, to other Christian works which (as in the Secret Revelation of John) suggest thtat the creation of the  world is accomplished by "fallen" angels, acting against God's will., here in Judas, everything is in accordance with God's will.
 
Chap.12:5 - it is not clear here who is speaking and creating the "lower-world angels" - perhaps Autogenes?
We see him now bringing forth angels to rule over "the chaos and oblivion"...........note: sounds just like our world doesn't it? deb.
The formless void described in Genesis.
 
Twelve angels come into being to rule over the chaos.
The first has a face of fire,
(the Sun??)my note.
reminiscent of divine light but this likeness is the color of blood sowing that his "light" is defiled, it consumes rather then illumines.
(as in consuming the egos??).......my note.\
 
The numbers (luminaries) and angels, in their mathematical order, form the shape of the immaterial, spiritual world of light above.
They also provide the model for the subsequent creation of the material world below.
The stars and planets come into being as a material reflection
of eternity.
 
 
 

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 Message 5 of 13 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameCaringLeomoonSent: 3/7/2008 3:14 AM
Chap. 12:1-3 (Reading Judas):
 
Jesus now introduces a new topic: the creation of the perishable world the cosmos.
He begins by stressing it ws by the will of the Father above and his highest angels that the First Human Adamas, accompanied by all his imperishable powers appeared in the lower material world. That realm contained the race of Adamas along with the cloud of knowledge (Akashic record??)
After the "face of Fire"......(the Sun?)
His name, Nebro, also tells us about his character for it is interpreted as "apostate" leading one immediately to  think of fallen angels, like Satan.(in ancient lore)
 
Saklas comes with 6 other angels to attend him.
Just as the divine luminaries above had angels to serve them, these allotted a portion in the heavens to another 12 angels.
 
(Note: The Celestial LOKA?? of Vedic lore?)
These rulers come into being to rule  over oblivion, modeled after Autogenes and his 4 angels who preside over the divine realm.
 
The first of these lowest angels has two names, "Seth" and "Christ"
 
Strange as it might seem, this description conforms very closely to widespread ancient thinking about the structure or the heavens.
Certain followers of Plato argued for example, that astronomy  was "the one essential science for those seeking to attain true wisdom and piety".
 
Ancient astronomers envisioned a geocentric universe in which the earth appeared as a stable unmoving sphere, around which the sun, moon and stars revolved.
 
Mathematicians from Pythagoras to Albert Einstein have speculated that numbers describe universal principles including shape and movement of the heavenly bodies.
 
 
 

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 Message 7 of 13 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameCaringLeomoonSent: 3/7/2008 4:16 AM
 
ASTRONOMY IN ANCIENT DAYS WITH ASTROLOGY:
 
Ancient scientists held that the sun is predominant  since it's movement determines the cycles of night and day as well as the seasons of the year.
 
They recognized too, that the earth's closest luminary, t he moon, determines the pattern of the months.
 
They gave special  notice to five other stars that seemed to move irregularly since from any fixed ont of observation on Earth and they were,  Jupiter Saturn Mars Mercury & Venus (Uranus , Neptune & the dwarf Pluto were not visible to the naked eye), looked as if they were progressing forward and then turning backward in their courses (retrograding )
Because of this  irregularity ancient observers often called these stars, "Planets" taking the term from the Greek verb, "planos" which means to "Err" or "Wander"
 
By the time the Gospel of Judas was written however, astronomers had realized that this term was a misnomer since they observed that the courses of the planets were regular.,although opposite to those of the stars.
Ancient astronomers apportioned places ot the myriad other stars, which appears to move in fixed patterns by dividing the visible heavens into 12 parts.,which we know today as the zodiac.
They calculated the standard year as one of 360 days although this required occassional adjustment to account for  additional 5 and a quarter days every  year.
 
And in this way, philosophers and scientists conceived of numbers both as establishing principles of order and as marking intervals of time and setting boundaries in space. And while they used astronomical data for practical matters, including  navigation and seasonal agricultural , they also regarded the harmony and stability of the  heavens as proof of divine order and purpose.
 

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 Message 8 of 13 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameCaringLeomoonSent: 3/7/2008 4:24 AM
Ancient Astronomers believed that mathematical description of the  universe prove that divine intelligence, not chance or necessity, pervades the universe.
A work written by a later Platonist titled, the "Epinomis" even calls numbers , "The cause of all good things".
 
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The author of Judas too, relies on numbers to demonstrate the orderliness of God's creation. He uses the numerical relationships to the heavenly world to establish the pattern for the creation of our lower cosmos with our 12 months, heavenly zodiac, and 360 day year.
We can probably associate these beings mentioned in Judas, as the Sun (Nebro)with his "face of fire"
the 7 day week (Saklas) and his 6 attendents (the zodiac) twelve each governing a portion of the heaven; and the 5 planets, (set over chaos to rule)
 
The author of the Gnostic Gospel of Judas, takes the correalation between our cosmos and these heavenly numbers to prove,  not only is there a world above but that divine purpose prevades the world in which we live.
 

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 Message 9 of 13 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameCaringLeomoonSent: 3/7/2008 4:37 AM
The Stars (and Planets) will bring "everything to completion, says the Gospel of Judas" and Edgar Cayce.
 
 
(The Denouncing of Sacrifice in the name of God or Jesus)......both Dencounce it.....including a Eucharist understanding of need of sacrificing......  explained here:
 
Because of the high regard for the heavenly bodies many people of the ancient Mediteerranean world regarded the stars as living even divine beings, led by gods, some said or images of gods.
They offered sacrifices
(Geeks,Romans,Egyptians,Babylonians, etc.)even the ancient Hebrews as well as all......my note,deb.)
 
They offered sacrifices and had festivals devoted to these astral dieties, and they especially revered the Sun.
 
Because the Gospel of Judas identifies the rulers of the lower world with the heavenly bodies, he is accusing Jesus disciples of worshipping astral deities when they "Sacrifice" Jesus and martyrs to Saklas.
"Cease Sacrificing" commands Jesus.
 
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although the Jews did away with other gods, and many insisted there was only one true God.,and he created all these heavenly bodies and appointed angels to rule over them.Christians too, attributed everything to God's providence and free will so whenver celestial events occured, (like the Star of Bethlehem) for example, or when the Eclipse of the Sun occurred at his death, or when heavenly events might signal his return.
 
 
Those who believe the astrologers then fail to see that God rules over these heavenly signs, the church father Origen said so that in effect, "The determinisim pre-supposed by astrology would empty all meaning out of Christs redemption, the effort of the apostles, human endeaveor and prayer would make God unjust"
 
The author of the Gospel of Judas agrees..The movement of the heavenly bodies follows God's plan - it is the stars that will bring everything to completion........
 
(note) as Edgar Cayce suggests, reincarnation is the completion, after we integrate the in-between sojourns of these planetary realms, into our souls........we move beyond.thru Arcturus into the outer realms .....
 
 
 

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 Message 10 of 13 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameCaringLeomoonSent: 3/7/2008 5:18 AM
"It is the Stars that will bring everything to completion"( Judas14-2) The movement of the heavenly bodies.
 
Yet at the same time, the stars can lead people astray. Jesus refers to Judas star twice in ways that seem contradictory:
 
"Your Star is leading you astray" he says, when Judas wrongly inerprets his dream about the heavenly temple ......but Jesus later tells him, "The Star that leads the way, that is your star".
 
Contradictory as it may appear, we see that at work one of the Gospel of Judas main assumptions , that the heavenly bodies are set in place by God but nonetheless, they can go astray and err.
 
Where does this notion come from?
 
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Partly it comes from the observation of planets that seem to "err" in their courses.
 But the more accurate answer with regard to the Gospel of Judas is that although the angels in charge of the world were created and appointed by the Universal "God", they are deficient beings, BECAUSE they share in the nature of the lower realm (ours here on earth)....deb's note: "over which they rule".
 
God set terms for their rule and allowed them only limited understanding as well, for as we have seen (in this scroll), they can err and lead people astray. (the star that he spoke of as being Judas star**)note.
 
 

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 Message 11 of 13 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameCaringLeomoonSent: 3/7/2008 11:31 PM
pg. 155 -
 
Unlike the beings in heaven
 
(beyond Arcturus)...(see the book of Job where Arcturus and other beings are mentioned)deb's note:
 
They are limited in other ways, as God set terms for their rule, and allowed them only limited understanding as well. ,for as we have seen they also can err and lead people astray.
 
 
note reference material:
 
In the King James Version of the Bible, Arcturus is mentioned twice in the Book of Job: "Which maketh Arcturus, Orion, and Pleiades, and the chambers of the south." Job: 9:9
 
Geneva Study Bible

Which maketh {d} Arcturus, Orion, and Pleiades, and the chambers of the south.

(d) These are the names of certain stars by which he means that all stars both known and unknown are at his appointment.

Wesley's Notes

9:9 Ordereth - Disposeth them, governeth their rising and setting, and all their influences. These he names as constellations of greatest eminency; but under them he seems to comprehend all the stars, which as they were created by God, so are under his government. Arcturus is a northern constellation, near that called the Bear. Orion is a more southerly constellation, that rises to us in December. The Pleiades is a constellation not far from Orion, which we call the seven stars: by the chambers, (or inmost chambers, as the word signifies) of the south, he seems to understand those stars and constellations which are toward the southern pole, which are called inward chambers, because they are for the most part hid and shut up from these parts of the world.

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http://books.google.com/books?

 

Miscellaneous Notes and Queries - Google Books Result
1893
The words " Arcturus with his sons (Job ... The Pleiades are thus mentioned twice, and once as " the seven stars." The Vulgate has in each of the three ...
books.google.com/books?id=ZywAAAAAYAAJ...

 

See a Map of Ursa Major (the Big Dipper), the Great Bear here:

 

http://www.creationdiscovery.org/cdp/articles/anctastr.html

 

 

Let us examine the information of one of the oldest books in the world, the book of Job. In Job 38:42 it tells us 'Canst thou bring forth Mazzaroth in his seasons? or canst thou guide Arcturus with his sons?'(KJV/AV) This is God speaking to Job, going over some of the celestial occurrences that Job was evidently aware of. However the translation is somewhat uncertain. When other versions are examined we get 'Can you bring forth the constellations in their seasons or lead out the Bear with its cubs?' (NIV) This does not even confirm that a celestial event is being referenced. Indeed 'the Bear with its cubs' could mean the creature rather than the constellations Ursa Major and Ursa Minor. Then again 'Can you lead forth the Mazzaroth in their season, or can you guide the Bear with its children?' (NRSV) also does not indicate a celestial event.

 

Ursa Minor constellation It is not surprising that the meaning is uncertain, since the Hebrew term 'Ayish' is used only twice in the Hebrew Scriptures, and in both instances it refers to the same event. The star 'Arcturus' is guessed at, but by no means certain. Let us examine this further. 'Arcturus with his sons' relates to the way Arcturus is set in the sky to the lower left of Ursa Minor and Ursa Major, the little bear and the great bear. Other versions, as mentioned, relate to the bear constellations. However the great bear is never thought to be a 'bear cub', so it really could not be considered a 'son of Arcturus'. It may be considered a parent of the little bear, however we then have only one child, not two. Further to this, at this time there were considered to be two types of stars, the fixed stars, which we call the 'stars' today, and the movable stars which we call the 'planets' today. The word planet means 'wanderer'. Since the Hebrew, and indeed the English versions mentioned, indicate movement it is reasonable to assume that this word could indicate a planet in modern English, perhaps more easily than it could indicate a star. Indeed the Hebrew word for 'Arcturus' as given here, 'Ayish', means 'to hasten'. The Hebrew word for 'bear' is definitely not 'Ayish', but 'dob' as seen in 2 Kings 2:24.

If 'Ayish' refers to a planet, which one would it be? There is one planet that does indeed lead 'two sons', or as we would call it, two moons, that is Mars. Other planets visible are Venus and Mercury (with no moons), and Johannes KeplerJupiter and Saturn with many moons. The moment you view Jupiter with any optical aid you see not two, but four moons. Saturn with a low range telescope would show one moon, with a powerful telescope more than four moons.


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 Message 12 of 13 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameCaringLeomoonSent: 3/8/2008 6:48 AM
   
To whom then will you liken Me
         That I would be his equal?" says the Holy One.
    Lift up your eyes on high
         And see who has created these stars,
Isaiah 40:25-26a
 
 
 
 
 
Note:
 
The Babylonian deities were identified with the heavenly bodies (stars). The words here would have had particular relevance

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 Message 13 of 13 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameCaringLeomoonSent: 3/9/2008 5:08 PM
this Cayce saying (extract from a reading)....or "Thought for the Day"
 
pretty much expresses the same concepts as found in this one
saying, as the entire Gospel of Judas tried to convey:
 

Think on This ...

For Life and its expressions are one. Each soul or entity will and does return, or cycle, as does nature in its manifestations about man; thus leaving, making or presenting--as it were--those infallible, indelible truths that it--Life--is continuous. And though there may be a few short years in this or that experience, they are one; the soul, the inner self being purified, being lifted up, that it may be one with that first cause, that first purpose for its coming into existence.

Edgar Cayce Reading 938-1

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