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Ky. atheists want God out of homeland security

State law requires office to acknowledge divine help in anti-terror efforts

FRANKFORT, Kentucky - A group of atheists filed a lawsuit Tuesday seeking to remove part of a state anti-terrorism law that requires Kentucky's Office of Homeland Security to acknowledge it can't keep the state safe without God's help.

American Atheists Inc. sued in state court over a 2002 law that stresses God's role in Kentucky's homeland security alongside the military, police agencies and health departments.

Of particular concern is a 2006 clause requiring the Office of Homeland Security to post a plaque that says the safety and security of the state "cannot be achieved apart from reliance upon almighty God" and to stress that fact through training and educational materials.

The plaque, posted at the Kentucky Emergency Operations Center in Frankfort, includes the Bible verse: "Except the Lord keep the city, the watchman waketh but in vain."

"It is one of the most egregiously and breathtakingly unconstitutional actions by a state legislature that I've ever seen," said Edwin F. Kagin, national legal director of Parsippany, New Jersey-based American Atheists Inc. The group claims the law violates both the state and U.S. constitutions.

But Democratic state Rep. Tom Riner, a Baptist minister from Louisville, said he considers it vitally important to acknowledge God's role in protecting Kentucky and the United States.

"No government by itself can guarantee perfect security," Riner said. "There will always be this opposition to the acknowledgment of divine providence, but this is a foundational understanding of what America is."

Kentucky has been at the center of a series of legal battles involving religious issues in recent years, most involving displays of the Ten Commandments in public buildings. One case went to the U.S. Supreme Court, which ruled in 2005 that such displays inside courthouses in two counties were unconstitutional.

Kentucky isn't the only state dealing with religious issues, but Ed Buckner, president of American Atheists, said it's alone in officially enlisting God in homeland security.

"I'm not aware of any other state or commonwealth that is attempting to dump their clear responsibility for protecting their citizens onto God or any other mythological creature," Buckner said.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28029857/

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{ I don't usually support this sort of effort in court but this is a special case. Mixing religion with something as important as national security is preposterous. It seems nothing is sacred to these bible pounders not even protecting us from terrorists. To them it's just another opportunity to proselytize and spread the word of God and our nations security is just a tool to be used for this ultimate purpose This is a pristine example of what happens when you mix politics and religion and why a separation between church and state is so important. If people insist on voting into political power ministers and priests then don't be surprised when they demand that their religion play a big role in everything. Be thankful the constitution and organizations like "American Atheist" protect us from these extremists trying to turn this great country into " The United Christian States of America".}

It could have happened just as you say. God, Jesus, and everything about religion could be a story written by a bard, but what if that's wrong? What if there is a God and a Devil? What if Heaven and Hell are real? Who would have control of a soul that never believed? Would either?

YESSSSSSSSSSSS! Killed another thread...

No....you haven't Never!

I have been accused by many on several boards of attacking Christianity and Christians and what they offer up as proof is I do not "attack" other religions where in fact I don't "attack" any religion....only extremism and frankly I'm not much interested in other religions other then Christianity. You see.....I've never been a Muslim or a Wiccan but I have been a Christian. It's talking about what I "know".

Some claim I hate Christianity because I have in their mind insulted the "tenants of Christianity". What they mean of course.....is my well known dislike of the false neo-science of Creationism and intelligent design. They look at my adamant disapproval of the teaching of this religious propaganda in our schools as a sign I make fun of or disrespect genesis and other biblical views where my complaint is strictly against the teaching of religion in our public schools. This POV is patently ridiculous. It is saying if I do not want creationism/intelligent design taught in our schools then I hate God and all his work.

To set the record straight here are some of my views on God, religion and Christianity.

The God of the two books of the Bible are in my opinion incompatible. Any intelligent person is going to have to accept one or the other. The Bible is in itself simply a book. Often enlightening and poetic as well as brutal and confusing. It is a work of man and therefore fallible. To claim it is the backbone of Christianity of even a "base tenet' of the religion is short sighted. To say you can not be a Christian if you do not believe the Bible is the word of God or accept everything in it as the absolute truth is dismissive of the thousand of early Christians who had NO Bible at all. It seems to this small mind bunch that somehow these people who actually built Christianity are not real Christians because they didn't have the Bible to work with? How bizarre. How ridiculous. How typical of the Christian chauvinists.

Christianity is not about the Bible. It is about Christ. The religion is not called "Biblianty" but CHRISTianity. Christianity is about the search for God......not the search for religion. Jesus Christ was a Jew and part of the traditional Jewish religion of the day. Jesus was never a "Christian" as such .......as the religion that proclaimed him a god came later after his death. Many people have no particular use for the Bible but are still "Christians" because being a Christian means you have accepted Christ as your savior.....not the "Bible" as your savior.

When you say aloud or quietly " Jesus....you are my savior" then you are a "Christian" at that moment and you don't have to believe in creationism/ intelligent design, the virgin birth, the holy trinity, the Bible or anything else to be "accepted" by God. Christianity is not a private club for fundamentalists alone.

It has become very convenient for many so called Christians to use their religiosity and the Bible specifically as a weapon to bludgeon people in society they don't care for. They use a word here, a phrase there, from the Bible to justify this disreputable behavior. Atheists and Homosexuals are often their target of choice. Lets be clear about this....they are acting in their own name and not God's. They are doing their work and not God's. God does not discriminate. Humans do......weak ones that is. Anyone who says "I hate the sin but not the sinner" is saying the equivelent of " Some of my best friends are black". They are simply trying to hide their own predjudices. These are often the same so called Christians who hate other religions, fight among themselves over the ligitmacy of thier own branch of the religion. If they are Catholic then some of them believe Mormons are not Christians and are going to hell. If they are Mormons they may dislike ot distrust other Christian sects or even dispise them. That is not doing God's work.

The purpose of Christianity is redemption but it is not up to us to decide who needs or doesn't need redeeming. The ultimate message of Christ is one of love, understanding, forgiveness and gentleness. Obviously that has nothing to do with the Bible. I know people who are real Christians and I admire them tremendously. Pikes is one.

My situation is I do not believe in God. I once did ....but no longer. I was once a Christian..... but no longer. If it ever changes and I become a believer again I would become a Christian again as well. Why? Because I love it. I love real Christianity and it's potentual to save humanity and actually change a persons life. I turned my back on the concept of God but never the concept of Christianity. Christianity is good and loving. It is the phonies and haters who pervert it. I fought against them when I was a Christian and I still fight against them.

Christianity still belongs to me because if God exists he would not turn his back on me anymore then he would turn his back to an Homosexual. I no longer walk in Gods footprints because I can not see or sense them any longer but the Christianity I loved is still there. Shining bright. I see it......even if others don't. Even if some others continue to distroy it with hate. I see it....and I know it's there for me. It is still mine and part of me.

Rose

Eventually, I run out of cheeks in which case I revert to the other two, and the person I'm dealing with can kiss either one of those.

I appreciate you being your genuine self...as for what you said, whether intended or not, your statement became embodied in the perfect description...and as I'm a pretty visual thinker...HAHAHAHAHA...*wipes eyes all over again*

I just love pithy figures of speech...

Mythos, the explanation and preservation of cultural identity, is rife with truths about what makes a people a people...but unless one is willing to read the texts as such...then there are serious problems. Genesis is the Hebrew culture's explanation of how we came to be and why evil is in the world. If you look to Native American, South American, African, (pick your culture) you will find sometimes strikingly similar stories. What I believe one must do at that point is discover the human truths in the story. Why the common questions? Why the search?

<(That's Korean really, which in more careful than American carefull, really!>

Awesome post.

How many philosophers embraced the idea of a human mind as a mirror of the universe? Kant told us we cannot imagine anything that is not somewhere, real. Remarkable to me, as I can imagine some pretty awesome and weird stuff.

A year ago, I put together a slide show for my church, to accompany a musical piece we presented, that featured a remarkable vision of the human mind, and God.

This of course, is the Creation of Light, from the Sistine Chapel ceiling.

This is an image of a galactic nebula from the Hubble telescope. Need I say another word? The pictures say them all.

Here are a couple interesting details:

and

Now consider the centerpiece of God creating Man, and compare these reflections of a universal mind;

and

Feel the chill?

Anthropomorphism? Definitely.

Connection in reality? Hardly.

Connection in imagination? Definitely.

It takes a human mind to make things anthropomorphic, and what we make of them, they are.

In language, we sometimes bristle when the Lord's Name is used in vain. Goddammit,

this is nothing against use of the Lord's presence used to justify national security, or some other heinous political excuse to limit the freedom of a people, or worse, to oppress them for purposes of control. That is my chief argument againt the religious assault on sex and the conduct between two people that is none of the gubbermints business, none of the church's business, none of your business or mine, and only the business between those two people.

Michelangelo expressed through one of the most stupendous artistic projects ever undertaken, a profound reflection of a universal mind, for church leaders that deserved at best, to have housepaint thrown on their writhing bodies, to dry and harden, binding them together so they may impose their shit on each other, and leave people alone.

McCartney wrote Let It Be. Do it. Let it be.

For the record, Michelangelo was a homosexual.

So, for the record, let the church who decries homosexuality, reject his work,

and hire Glidden to repaint the project with a nice teal blue wash.

Anthropomorphism? Definitely.

Connection in reality? Hardly.

Connection in imagination? Definitely.

...And don't forget Jung...he took the notion of Archetypes to the genetic level...

Stunning Pikes.....simply stunning!

Pikes...it all depends on how you define reality. I love the series of images...amazing...

That is why reality is relativity. Yes they are stunning. Of all the tools we have, all pale before the mind who imagines them. When the unreal is imagined, and brought into reality, the process and product is called art.

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