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Greenman Realm : Rites of Passage
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 Message 1 of 3 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameThe_Autumn_Heather  (Original Message)Sent: 10/27/2008 1:15 PM
Written by KnyghtSkye
 
I think I would like to start something, for the men of the Community.  
 
    Thanks to Wyrmwood from PaganMen.Com for creating this Essay; I think we could learn a bit about ourselves and where we stand from answering some of these questions. First, I'll post his essay to give everyone an idea, then I'll post my answers, and finally, anyone who feels to post, answer as you will. Blessings to all!


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 Message 2 of 3 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameThe_Autumn_HeatherSent: 10/27/2008 1:16 PM

essays > rites of passage

from: Wyrmwood 

> Is age the only determination for the achievement of the next "tier" of seniority, or are there trials of initiation which must be performed/endured before the attainment of the next phase? (The various stages of male physical and psycho-social development which are characterised by your path. ) 

(an "In my opinion" disclaimer here - I am interested in hearing different opinions!)

There are some tiers which are not related to age:

Fatherhood is definitely a trial that has no age barrier - and some men go through their life without ever becoming one (to me, fatherhood is more than just donating sperm)

Warriorhood (Armed forces, protecting your family, protecting others weaker than yourself) is a trial that some men will never have to face, and others will. It is a right-of-passage to know that you can protect those that need it - and the only way to pass this rite is to do it. Although men who do not do it should not be considered "below standard" - I do believe its a right-of-passage, but I don't believe that all men go through it or need to go through it. I personally feel that I haven't. Time will tell whether it is something that I will face one day.

Age/maturity stages of man (general outlines)

* boy - gender is an abstract concept, knows there are differences between boys and girls, but that's about it. * teenager - gender is an issue, girls become strange, interaction with other boys rather than girls, learning how to be a man (or adult)

 * young man - late teens usually - entering the world of the adult (cars, alcohol, relationships). Need for maturity and taking responsibility. 

* mature man - late 20's to mid 30's - being in positions of responsibility, contributing to society, being a role-model for boys/teenagers/young men, has variety of life experience 

* elder/grandfather - 50's to 60's - being in position of advisor. Huge array of life experience - bless actions of young men and mature men, guides teenagers, story teller

> how do you feel when you interact with these hierarchies? Do you believe the interaction to be better facilitated by a hierarchy due to knowing where you stand with these folks? 

Sometimes I think it would help me and my relationship with people in these "hierarchies" if I (and they) knew where I stood and they (and I) knew where they stood, maybe... 

I know that through my life, I have often created my own personal "rite of passage" due to a personal need for one and none being offered or available. This was before I even knew what a "rite of passage" was.

Certainly in a "pagan community" there is need for a bit of social structure which is currently absent. To be a part of that community and interact with it, it is essential to have the male age/experience hierarchies so that boys and men know their place and know not only what is expected of them, but what will be expected of them at the next stage - and so what their place in society is.

> Do you ever feel marginalised by that hierarchy because you are outside of it?

 No - its just a different recognised stage of experience with its own benefits and inconveniences. I have men in my own stage to relate to, elders to get advise from, and teenagers and children to teach and be a role model for. Each stage has its place and is no "better" than any other stage.

For instance, fatherhood is something that only other fathers really understand. You can share your experiences, fears and ask questions with men without that experience, but only men with that experience can give you the answers that you seek.

> How do the folks from more rigidly structured paths of spiritual and social development feel when they interact with self-initiated individuals? Does this cause you problems in establishing an appropriate mode of interaction with such people?

Well, I guess this question doesn't apply to me as I feel I am "self-initiated", but from my position, I guess I am a little jealous of those men who have had the support to go through a "rite of passage" and be recognised by other men as being at a particular stage in life. I guess part of it is the need to "be accepted" but not so far as to degrade "who" I am. I am not prepared to "become" a Yobbo, a rev-head, etc to be accepted. The person that I am is more important to me than my place in society (although my place in society - not necessary the greater society but, for instance, amongst those I relate to or have similar beliefs to my own - is important to some extent)

Personally, I believe that men (and boys) need the support of other men - and a "rite of passage" helps to facilitate this. However, a "rite of passage" must have meaning to the individual and the group (and even, in part, to the "society" - see my description of "society" above).

The most important aspect of a "rite of passage" is being supported by other men in that stage who have the knowledge and experience to support you in your step into the relatively unknown and yet-to-experience: Being told that its ok to be afraid, taking the step with support, understanding that you have crossed from one "societal level" to another, taking on the responsibilities (and perks) of that level, and sharing your experiences with other men on that level.

This is something that all men go through whether recognised or not. I believe that a "rite of passage" at each stage, where your crossing of that societal level is recognised by other men, would help us find our place in life, in our society, and within ourselves.

blessings to all

Wyrmwood (a self-initiated father and mature man {I hope!})

 


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 Message 3 of 3 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameThe_Autumn_HeatherSent: 10/27/2008 1:16 PM

> how do you feel when you interact with these hierarchies? Do you believe the interaction to be better facilitated by a hierarchy due to knowing where you stand with these folks? 

  In many ways, I'm envious of those older, more mature, more knowledgable than myself. When dealing namely with those of the Warriorhood, I deeply wish I could be initiated as they have been. I see myself as a strong, assertive, and confident Male. I have trained in many ways as a Warrior; Martial Arts, Firearms, etc, but I have not been "Trained" by any one Organized Body (Military, for instance). I'm envious when being around Members of the Armed Services, because I can talk their talk, but I'm not taken seriously unless I've been through what they've been through.

    I think in a Pagan Community, there should be an organized practice of bringing those younger and unitiated into the Organized "Body" and learning from them, as well as teaching them. There should be structure beginning at the Older Generations and working it's way down. That way, there's a place for the newly initiated to begin, and there's an actual goal for them to strive for (I.E., moving up/gaining more respect/finding secrets/Etc).

   I think every male has created his own Rites of Passage, be it coming of age to buy a pack of smokes, to being able to buy your first videogame. It's a way of feeling confident in ourselves when no one else does.

 

> Do you ever feel marginalised by that hierarchy because you are outside of it?

     In many ways, yes, I have felt excluded and marginalised. Speaking with someone who is Adament about knowing "More than you" when they know not what you've been through is frusterating to anyone, especially a confident and strong Male. Nothing is more damaging to a young man's confidence than a person they look up to and respect making it clear to the Younger that they're "Below" them.

> How do the folks from more rigidly structured paths of spiritual and social development feel when they interact with self-initiated individuals? Does this cause you problems in establishing an appropriate mode of interaction with such people?

In many ways, I feel I am "Self-Initiated" in my own lifestyle, but so much holds me back from actually coming into what I see as "My Own". Those from rigidly structed paths of upbringing, in my opinion, feel those Self-Initiated are not to be taken seriously, that they're just playing at being grown up. I know, personally, I find it quite difficult to speak with the Elderly or those more Mature than myself because I feel I'm just as confident and I've seen a lot, things that help me relate to them, but they won't take me seriously. It makes me steer clear from them, and stay in my comfort zone.

    I wish people of all creeds would listen to the younger generations. No Man knows what another has seen in his life, and because of that,  no man can be better, more mature, better trained, or more confident than another.