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Last night I saw some hands that got me thinking. Usually for a 4-level pre-emptive opening I would want an 8-card suit, and a hand that for some reason I preferred to open at the 4-level rather than the 1-level.

Soon after I began playing I noticed that some players open at the 4-level with a 7-card suit. I don't know anything though about whether many good players do this or what criteria they use. I would guess a high concentration of values in the suit and good shape (not 7222), but I have never seen this anywhere.

I am reasonably confident that opening 6-card suits at the 4-level isn't winning tactics. But last night people kept doing it!

What should a 4-level opening look like? Thoughts appreciated

If someone wants to discuss Namyats I don't mind but this is really a hand evaluation question more than a systems question.

Here are some of the hands from last night:

Deal 1         North
North deals    S AKQ1096
None vul       H 7
               D 86
               C AJ98
West                          East
S J852                        S 4
H J10                         H AKQ832
D K53                         D A1042
C K543                        C Q10
               South
               S 73
               H 9654
               D QJ97
               C 762

West North East South
4S

Deal 4         North
West deals     S J854
Both vul       H 3
               D A10532
               C Q84
West                          East
S 1092                        S AK63
H J9654                       H 2
D Q64                         D J987
C A9                          C 10762
               South
               S Q7
               H AKQ1087
               D K
               C KJ53

West North East South

Pass Pass Pass 4H
Pass Pass Pass

Contract: 4H

Deal 6         North
East deals     S 9
EW vul         H AJ83
               D 62
               C Q87643
West                          East
S K42                         S 103
H KQ1095                      H 42
D K1083                       D QJ954
C 2                           C AK109
               South
               S AQJ8765
               H 76
               D A7
               C J5

West North East South

Pass 4S
Pass Pass Pass

Contract: 4S

I've just noticed that one of the 4H bids is in fourth seat, so that's a slightly different question, but I am going to leave it up anyway.

I open all of those hands at the one level. I don't understand the need to shut partner out of the bidding, especially if they are still an unpassed hand. For me this is the same as people who bid 4s over 1s with a full opening hand. It is just not partnership bridge.

I think a 4 spade or heart opener should look something like:

K Q J 10 x x x x x x x x x void

i cant think of to many cases where i would open a hand at the 4 level regardless of which seat.IMO,is 1 of the worst bids you can make,if you are that strong,open 1,if you are weak preempt to the level you think you can make,3 max....always amazes me the players that open 4..........and yes JoAnne,i agree even tho it might be 4th seat where all passed out ,closes off your partner who might have a fit with good values but couldnt open.

I wouldn't open any of the shown hands at the 4-level - including the 4th seat 4h bid.

My guidelines are an 8 card suit (or a very good 7). Not a lot of values outside the suit (an ace or 2 (non-single) kings would be too many). When I'm non-vulnerable (opps vulnerable) I'll sometimes (rarely) push to preempt a minor at the 4 level with a good 7 card suit.

4-level preempts on hands suitable usually work out well - because most people don't have the tools and agreements to deal with them - and you often play in a doubled contract making when the hand belongs to the opps.

So rather than 'one of the worst bids' Id say on suitable hands they are 'one of the best bids'....but the sort of hands shown here are not suitable.

suitable hands,interesting outlook......how many hands are suitable,for a 4 opener,think this is a matter of style.3 preemptive bids ,IMO do the job and usually with a 7/8 card suit, weak hand your in the ballpark as to what you can make..

Actually not a matter of style spade....experts will open 4M or 4minor on hands that are right for this level of pre-emption - and preempting is not just about bidding what you can make...it's also about causing the most difficulty possible for the opps.

4 level preempts are much harder to handle than 3-level preempts when the opps have good hands.

I like preempts. In fact, I like them a lot. The fact is preempts offer a lot for our side. Still, a proper discipline is needed. The only seat where partner is free to do more or less as he pleases is 3rd seat. Another area where preempts are slightly different is when preempting clubs. Since 2c is generally not a preempt going to 3 or even 4 clubs can be done with 6 or 7 cards suits if vulnerbility is carefully considered. So having one less club I don't consider an off shape.

Where many pairs go wrong is when preempter's partner has a useful or strong hand. This can be overcome (if disciplined actions are observed) by using a good preempt evaluation system. The losing trick count and the cover card system used together or alone would do nicely for this purpose.

On the hands shown I'm not prone to preempt for they violate one of the disciplines of preempting. They are too strong.

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