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General : Forcing or NOT
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Recommend  Message 1 of 9 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameTWOferBRIDGE  (Original Message)Sent: 11/30/2008 6:28 PM
1)  Playing basic SAYC ( No Drury ) I've been told:
    pass     -    1H/1S
    2C       -     2D = forcing  ???
 
2) Would 2D also be forcing if Responder were NOT a passed hand ?
 
 


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Recommend  Message 2 of 9 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameBridgeLunaticSent: 11/30/2008 7:30 PM
2/1 response over 1M in Basic SAYC is forcing to 2M no matter if responder is a passed hand or not (it promises another bid unless opener rebids his suit).

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Recommend  Message 3 of 9 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameBill_Higgins1Sent: 11/30/2008 8:12 PM
From the SAYC booklet :

NOTE: Responder promises to bid again if he responded with a new suit at the two

level unless opener’s rebid is at the game level.

Note that a 2/1 response that promises strength but does not guarantee a rebid is virtually unplayable. Makes no difference passed hand or not.

 


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Recommend  Message 4 of 9 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameBill_Higgins1Sent: 11/30/2008 8:17 PM
A trick question common to "Do you know SAYC" quizes:
Responder bids 2H over a 1S opening, if opener raises to 3H is that invitational?  Answer: NO - responder may not pass since opener's rebid is not at the game level (sorry BridgeLunatic - the opener rebids his suit exception DOES NOT EXIST)

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Recommend  Message 5 of 9 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameTWOferBRIDGESent: 11/30/2008 10:50 PM
What about:
pass                    -   1M
2C (not forcing)  -   2D (forcing)
3C( not forcing)  -   3D ( forcing or not ?? )

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Recommend  Message 6 of 9 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameBill_Higgins1Sent: 12/1/2008 12:34 AM
Responder owes a (single) rebid. He may pass in message 5.

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Recommend  Message 7 of 9 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknamePriorKnowledgeSent: 12/1/2008 4:43 AM
i think the people who wrote the SAYC booklet did not think about all possible auctions before making that comment about 2/1 promising a rebid.
 
Besides not mentioning whether a passed hand 2/1 changes the rules, what about: 1M - 2C - 2N ?
 
Since there is no other authoritative extended book about SAYC, whatever rules you agree with partner are just as good as anyone else's rules.
 
A lawyer might argue that, without prior agreement, since there are no exceptions in the text, that no exceptions exist.

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Recommend  Message 8 of 9 in Discussion 
From: twansSent: 12/1/2008 2:41 PM
Altho I am an admitted bidding cretin, this "rule" for a passed hand seems a prescription for getting too high. 2/1 passed hand bidder has 10+ points. w/o a jump, opener has minimal opener. Maybe a REALLY minimal opener. Why can't responder pass 2D? Where's the game potential? Clearly, as pk points out, 2NT should be (has to be) passable.
There has to be a difference between responder's obligations if he's a passed or unpassed hand.
 

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Recommend  Message 9 of 9 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameBill_Higgins1Sent: 12/1/2008 9:00 PM
Light openings opposite a passed hand should be the responsibility of opener, NOT responder. Bidding that is based on the fear that partner does not have what he should is counter productive.
 
For example (omitting opps bids):
P 1H; 2C 2H - Opener has a FULL opening hand. With less he would either have opened 2H or would pass 2C. To insist that he jump to show an extra queen while strain is still a question will be much more damaging than allowing responder to drop the bidding suddenly.
 
The case presented in the OP is even more troublesome - strain is still very much being negotiated.
 
I do agree that a single raise of responder's suit and a 2N rebid do not make much sense as forcing.

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