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Old Geek's : Framing the issues:How conservatives use language to dominate politics/Old Geek
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 Message 2 of 7 in Discussion 
From: Aprilborn  in response to Message 1Sent: 1/11/2004 11:06 PM
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Recommend Delete    Message 20 of 34 in Discussion 
From: <NOBR>MSN NicknameTheOldGeek1</NOBR> Sent: 12/25/2003 1:49 PM
Conseiller  Message 29 sur 53 dans la discussion 
De : <NOBR>Surnom MSNCatherine-----------</NOBR> Envoyé : 2003-11-08 17:49

born evil ? I don't believe in such things. The word Evil means to me of the mark of Reality, assuming erronously what is. So we are all born of the mark, the CEO as well as you and me.

As i see it we come to this world with a blank sheet at birth, everything that is we learn at first from our parents and so on.The early years in childhood are very important in shaping our views of the world. This can be of a positive nature with the outcome that children are confident and balanced, or in case of the opposite have effects that shape children’s attitude to becoming bullies or with little confidence in their own abilities..

Children that are balanced and confident with a right kind of respect for others are a great blessing to their parents.

 been made evil ? Of course we can persist in erroneous ways specialy when that erroneous way give a boost to our Ego. One erroneous way is seeing ourselves as strictly beeing born with individualist instincts in pursuit of individualistic selfish interrests as the sole source of happiness.

Naturally, humility would be the antidote to this.

Many cultural beliefs religious and academia speculations are based on those erroneous premises about human's nature.

But do not most religions teach that being selfish is wrong?

if yes, by whom ? In the case of our CEO, we can assume that his curriculum must have include studying economic theories based on the concept of "homo economicus" being driven by rationality, selfishness and greed.

I think that selfishness and greed is irrational in the long run, for once the earth is polluted by the greed thereof, the rich will suffer likewise.

or, because he is stupid ? Who wants to argue with success. If the CEO is successfull in applying those theories in his trade he will be stupid not to believe in them. My line of stupidity will arise when that CEO will persit in those theories when they don't deliver in his own personal pursuit of happiness. We never hear much about CEOs personnal pursuit of happiness so I can't tell much about them being stupid or not.

Geek success isn't really the issue as such, but the irrational measurment and abuse of it...

"An CEO fires 100 workers that costed an average 40,000 $/year for an annual economy of 4,000,000 $/year and give himself a raise of 2,000,000 $/year for a total economy of 2,000,000 $/year to the company. Is that fair?"

Maybe he has been disadvantaged by learning this "attitude" in his family and doesn’t see anything wrong in it?

Thank you for your reply Geek, I'll address the rest a bit later.


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Recommend Delete    Message 21 of 34 in Discussion 
From: <NOBR>MSN NicknameTheOldGeek1</NOBR> Sent: 12/25/2003 1:50 PM
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Conseiller  Message 30 sur 53 dans la discussion 
De : <NOBR>Surnom MSNCatherine-----------</NOBR> Envoyé : 2003-11-09 06:01

An Elected Legislature

Those who talk about the peoples of our day being given up to robbery and similar vices will find that they are all due to the fact that those who ruled them behaved in like manner.

Niccolo Machiavelli, The Discourses, III

http://www.transparency.org/sourcebook/06.pdf


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Recommend Delete    Message 22 of 34 in Discussion 
From: <NOBR>MSN NicknameTheOldGeek1</NOBR> Sent: 12/25/2003 1:50 PM
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Conseiller  Message 31 sur 53 dans la discussion 
De : <NOBR>Surnom MSNCatherine-----------</NOBR> Envoyé : 2003-11-09 08:16

The conservative worldview, the strict father model, assumes that the world is dangerous and difficult and that children are born bad and must be made good.

This could translate into the original sin theory, which is preached by mainline Christian religions , thus heaven and hell theories to keep the fear alive ...

The strict father is the moral authority who supports and defends the family, tells his wife what to do, and teaches his kids right from wrong. The only way to do that is through painful discipline - physical punishment that by adulthood will become internal discipline. The good people are the disciplined people. Once grown, the self-reliant, disciplined children are on their own. .....So, project this onto the nation and you see that to the right wing, the good citizens are the disciplined ones �?B> those who have already become wealthy or at least self-reliant

This sounds very stern and it is this kind of attitude that has given religion and/or God a bad name. The family and it’s protective shield for the young makes sense to me, a way of life that produces a better quality for those following also makes sense, though quality does not have to mean quantity or wealth.

The strict father model is behind/before the notion of the strict YHVH god model of the OT.

Not the way I see it. God has never forced anybody into anything...if he has, I’ve missed it, man on the other hand has. The questions arise "if God does exist what kind of God is he �?does he live by the standards he has set for others, speak mankind? Do the 10 commandments make sense? Or do they stop us from having fun—achieving happiness? These are questions everyone must answer for themselves. For me keeping the 10 commandments means a way of life that can bring peace amongst family members, friends and enemies alike.