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| | From:  mari67151 (Original Message) | Sent: 11/11/2008 8:08 AM |
I live far from America, but see there is some very strong people/oppinions here. So why are you proud to call yourself Americans , and what do you think America has to give to the rest of the world ? I , myself , are not allways so sure . I know that you have given some great contributions , but you have also given some bad ones .... |
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Obama will never be the fairy Godmother! |
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| | | From: xgunny® | Sent: 11/14/2008 7:16 PM |
When you are presented with two virtually identical candidates, neither of whom you approve of, what motivation is there, really? Looking back it's easy to find motivation. I voted for Bush in 2000, but imagine if Gore had won. It is possible he would have acted on the warnings passed on to Bush by the Clinton administration, and 9/11 could have been avoided. Perhaps not, but there is that possibility. The only thing Bush did his first year in office is everything he could do to avoid having to meet Yasser Arafat. If 9/11 hadn't happened, we probably wouldn't have two wars going with no end in sight to either. The two major parties are not the same. |
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While Bush has been our President, to hold the entire American population responsible for the actions of his administration makes almost as little sense as holding the general population of Iraq accountable for the actions of Saddam Hussein.
Hay
you didnt just post that......thats exactlly what the general public and govement of the USA did. are you trying to re-write history? how many 100's of thousands of Iraqis/aAfgahans citizens have we killed as a responce to 911?
its not right, but its reality |
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Looks like the official tally has bumped up to 66.7 million, rbshoots. |
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While Bush has been our President, to hold the entire American population responsible for the actions of his administration makes almost as little sense as holding the general population of Iraq accountable for the actions of Saddam Hussein.
Hay
you didnt just post that... TreborPyn Let me check ... yes, I did post that. ...thats exactlly what the general public and govement of the USA did. TreborPyn Define what you mean by "general public" ... surely, you don't mean a majority of Americans voted for such actions, do you? ... are you trying to re-write history? TreborPyn No. ... how many 100's of thousands of Iraqis/aAfgahans citizens have we killed as a responce to 911? TreborPyn I haven't killed any. How many have you killed? ... its not right, but its reality TreborPyn Your virtual reality? |
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To return to the opening post on the thread. I have lived through more than 1/2 a century as an American and I am eternally grateful to God for being born in this nation. I was born @ the begining of WWII. If my grandparents hadn't had the intelligence, forsight and drive to immigrate here legally I probably would have been killed in a concentration camp. America saved the world- do not forget that. No country is perfect. No place on earth or earthly government ever can be, But this nation invented democracy and exported it around the world. Every time a crisis happens somewhere America sends aid and comfort. We go to help. We rebuild our old enemies. We are the good guys. Recent invents not withstanding. God bless America. |
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| | | From: xgunny® | Sent: 11/16/2008 10:50 AM |
Ransomed2, I was born @ the begining of WWII. If my grandparents hadn't had the intelligence, forsight and drive to immigrate here legally I probably would have been killed in a concentration camp. America saved the world- do not forget that. That is great for you, but what of the ones that didn't make it out? Here is something for you especially to think about- If the US had answered France's call for help in 1939, before Germany invaded, there is a great possibility that there would not have been any concentration camps or a Holocaust. As for the US saving the world, that is debatable as well. By the time we entered the war in Europe, Germany was well on the road to defeat. What we did was save Europe from being gobbled up by Russia. |
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"But this nation invented democracy and exported it around the world." { Hmmm......the Greeks will be interested in learning history from Ransomed!} |
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how many 100's of thousands of Iraqis/aAfgahans citizens have we killed as a responce to 911? TreborPyn
I haven't killed any. How many have you killed?
Hay
thats my point. the Iragi/ afghanis didnt kill any Americans but our proxy, the US military has killed many of them as a result of 911/ precived threat we were convinced they posed.
the American public has no problem killing and destroying an entire country to get to a few people who they precive to threaten thier lifestyles/security
but when another country does the same we call them terrorist organization
... |
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My point is this ... the American public has no problem killing and destroying an entire country to get to a few people who they precive to threaten thier lifestyles/security TreborPyn A statement like that is ludicrous, as evidenced by the fact that the unpopularity of the current administration resulted in Republicans being thrown out. Clearly a majority of American voters object to "killing and destroying an entire country" ... If you had qualified your statement such as "some of the American public ..." then you might have something to discuss. I have major problems with American military actions across the globe - you apparently have similar issues. Your characterization that every American condones such action is innacurate hyperbole. The election is over, TreborPyn. Obama will be the next President, the Democrats will have complete control of the Federal government. It is time for you to cease your exaggerations of the bloodthirstiness of the American people. |
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your nit picking Hay. we are talking about how those who didnt support this and most of the industirlaized worlds opinion/veiw of the US
they elected them to a second term after they supported the wholesale slaughter of the middle eastern countries
"It is time for you to cease your exaggerations of the bloodthirstiness of the American people."
no exaggeration. when the majority of the American public cease thier bloodthistiness they can have that lable dropped. that has yet to happen. we have a new administration that seems to be moving away from that lable but i am sure if another 911 happened you would see thier lust for revenge resurface stonger than ever.
BTW
anyone who did/does disagree with the "blood lust/revenge/ turn the middle east into a sheet of glass" crowd gets branded as un-American, American hater, terrorist sympathizer,ect. |
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OP
there are Americans that i am proud of but i am not proud of my country as a whole. it has dissapointed me since i started paying attention and what i have learned of its history it has rarely done things that did not serve itself first even when it appeared to serve others on the surface.
I feel lucky to be an American. i know i am afforded opportunity that exisit nowhere else in the world. with al lits faults it still has the potential to be greater than any civilization that has ever exisited.
IMO
America = potential |
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| | | From: Hayekian | Sent: 11/17/2008 10:14 PM |
No, Trebor - I'm not nitpicking. I'm stating that it is ludicrous for you to make such sweeping generalizations about the entire population of the United States based on the actions of its government. It will be just as silly to make such sweeping generalizations during the Obama administration as well. If another 9/11 (or worse) happens, then some response will be justified. That isn't any more "bloodthirsty" than the desire for justice when a murder occurs. When there is no consequence to acts of war, or no consequence to criminal acts, then what is the purpose of civilization? |
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That's the only reason for law; punishment of the use of force, coersion or fraud. |
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