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General : Is Hillary as SOS unconstitutional?
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 Message 1 of 41 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nicknamecathymv722  (Original Message)Sent: 11/26/2008 2:53 PM

amazing whats in our constitution... and someone has brought this up... I'm not sure if its legit... but there are some that are talking about this... I am far from an expert in this.. and this is the first time that i have ever heard anything about this...

 

see ya

cathy :)

 

From Prof. Michael Stokes Paulsen, author of Is Lloyd Bentsen Unconstitutional?, 46 Stanford L. Rev. 907 (1994) (some paragraph breaks added, some glitches fixed with Prof. Paulsen's advance permission):

Thanks for alerting me to this fascinating (and fun) issue! I've played in this particular sandbox before [as to Lloyd Bentsen], and am amused to see it return in slightly different form.

So, "Is Hillary Clinton Unconstitutional?" In a word, Yes -- or, to be more precise, a Secretary of State Hillary Clinton would be unconstitutional.

The Emoluments Clause of Article I, section 6 provides "No Senator or Representative shall, during the Time for which he was elected, be appointed to any civil Office under the Authority of the United States, which shall have been created, or the Emoluments whereof shall have been encreased during such time." As I understand it, President Bush's executive order from earlier this year "encreased" the "Emoluments" (salary) of the office of Secretary of State. Last I checked, Hillary Clinton was an elected Senator from New York at the time. Were she to be appointed to the civil Office of Secretary of State, she would be being appointed to an office for which "the Emoluments whereof shall have been encreased" during the time for which she was elected to serve as Senator. The plain language of the Emoluments Clause would thus appear to bar her appointment ... if the Constitution is taken seriously (which it more than occasionally isn't on these matters, of course).

Are there any legitimate escape hatches to this constitutional bar? Let's consider them quickly. First, does the fact that the emoluments of the office were increased by executive order, pursuant to a general authorizing statute, take the case out of the Emoluments Clause rule? Plainly not. The clause is written in the delightfully ambiguous passive voice that we always discourage in our law students. "shall have been encreased ... by whom, exactly?!" The clause does not limit the application of its rule to direct statutory enactments.

In the world in which legislation may be accomplished by delegation of general quasi-lawmaking authority to executive branch officials, there is no difference in legal principle between a direct legislative enactment and an executive order pursuant to specific legislative authorization. If pay increases may be accomplished, legally, by executive order, then those increases in emoluments fit within Article I, section 6's rule. If those increases occurred during the time for which Hillary Clinton was elected to the U.S. Senate, they disqualify her, regardless of when the general statutory authorization for such increases was enacted.

But wait! Wasn't the (probable) purpose of the Emoluments Clause to prevent congressional self-dealing in the form of creation of offices (or increasing their emoluments) and hoping to profit thereby by being appointed to such office? And isn't that purpose plainly inapplicable here? Perhaps. But the content of the rule here is broader than its purpose. And the rule is the rule; the purpose is not the rule.

Unless one views the Constitution's rules as rules that may be dispensed with when inconvenient; or as not really stating rules at all (but "standards" or "principles" to be viewed at more-convenient levels of generality); or as not applicable where a lawsuit might not be brought; or as not applicable to Democratic administrations, then the plain linguistic meaning of this chunk of constitutional text forbids the appointment of Hillary Clinton as Secretary of State. I wouldn't bet on this actually preventing the appointment, however. It didn't stop Lloyd Bentsen from becoming Secretary of State. But it does make an interesting first test of how serious Barack Obama will be about taking the Constitution's actual words seriously. We know he thinks the Constitution should be viewed as authorizing judicial redistribution of wealth. But we don't know what he thinks about provisions of the Constitution that do not need to be invented, but are actually there in the document.

http://volokh.com/posts/1227562708.shtml



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The number of members that recommended this message. 0 recommendations  Message 27 of 41 in Discussion 
Sent: 11/30/2008 7:03 AM
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 Message 28 of 41 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nickname_Driver_7Sent: 11/30/2008 7:08 AM
Potentially The Hilldabeast could take over Harrry Reid's job as Senate Majority Leader, but it's inlikely. Regardless of assumed status in the Senate, she's still a small fish swimming with sharks.

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 Message 29 of 41 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameClearestWilhelmSent: 11/30/2008 10:49 AM
She is no longer a youngster.  She might prefer 8 years in the limelight and retire at 69 than hang on in the Senate indefinitley.

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 Message 30 of 41 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameSummerMoondancer1Sent: 11/30/2008 2:05 PM
Driver, some choose because of family, some choose because of business, some choose because of the cost of living in the US when they retire.  There are more than one million American citizens that are retired living in Mexico. There is also a very large population of American citizens here living in Honduras. 
I am not retired...so yes, I conduct business here, but no that is not the reason I am here.  If you do not recall my father in law has Alzheimers and I am caring for him.

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 Message 31 of 41 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameClearestWilhelmSent: 12/2/2008 11:34 AM
I hope that Hillary is brushing up on her song and dance routines:-
 

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 Message 32 of 41 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nicknamexgunny®Sent: 12/2/2008 4:25 PM
 
Gunny-
 
You live in France.  How do you have a dog in this fight?
 
I guess I'll have to do a better job of reading the threads. I missed this.
 
   You are correct, I am retired. I have been retired for a couple of years. But yes I do have a dog in this fight. Not only am I an American tax payer with income producing property in the US, I still have close family ties there. My oldest daughter and my grandsons live in the US, as does my mother and sister. 
   Even if it were not for those ties, anyone who can vote, or influence others to vote in the US elections should do so because of the impact the American decisions have on the rest of the world.

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 Message 33 of 41 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nicknamexgunny®Sent: 12/2/2008 4:54 PM
If you are Americans, why do you choose to live outside the USA? Is it business?
 
   Partly! My wife is French and the only child of aging parents. A little over thirty years ago she talked me into coming to France. I had recently gotten out of the Marines and was just spinning my wheels in California. I came to France with a little over $8,000 , a new (1979) Harley-Davidson Super Glide, and a monthly VAComp check. We opened a small brasserie and introduced the locals to chili. Over the years we added other bars and some small hotels and restaurants. Yes it is possible to prosper even when you are governed by socialists (but it's harder). I have always intended to move back to the US but there was always something holding me back. Right now it is my youngest. My son is fifteen, and in the French equivalent of the 10th grade, so it looks like I'll be here for a few more years at least.

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 Message 34 of 41 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nickname_Driver_7Sent: 12/2/2008 10:08 PM
Thanks for clearing that up. gunny.

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 Message 35 of 41 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nickname_Driver_7Sent: 12/2/2008 10:12 PM
You introduced the locals to chili?  How did they reciprocate, introducing you to snails?
 
Just curious.... when you marry a French citizen, do you automatically become a French citizen?

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 Message 36 of 41 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknamealaskanfreeSent: 12/3/2008 12:45 AM
My neighbor had his cat neutered. Now it's French! Marrying a French woman does not make you French. It makes you extremely tolerant. Lance Armstrong is halfway to being French. Just one more testicle to go!

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 Message 37 of 41 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknamealaskanfreeSent: 12/3/2008 12:57 AM
 
  Castration is quicker........................

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 Message 38 of 41 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nickname_Driver_7Sent: 12/3/2008 1:06 AM
One of my favorite philosophers is Descartes......
 
(But, he spent most of his time in The Netherlands...)

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 Message 39 of 41 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknamealaskanfreeSent: 12/3/2008 1:14 AM
  Ahhhh, the Netherlands! Excellent cannabis genetics. Excellent cannabis and hashish! Excellent women. Excellent!

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 Message 40 of 41 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nickname_Driver_7Sent: 12/3/2008 1:41 AM
Excellent women. Excellent!
 
Especially since many of them have learned to shave.....

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 Message 41 of 41 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknamealaskanfreeSent: 12/3/2008 1:49 AM
  That's where they beat the French women hands down.

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