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Ancient History : The Battle of Marathon 489 B.C
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 Message 1 of 9 in Discussion 
From: sunnyboy  (Original Message)Sent: 8/23/2002 7:04 PM
Was this a great Greek victory.   What about that run.


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 Message 2 of 9 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nickname--sundaySent: 8/25/2002 4:11 AM
My lack of a response here, sunnyboy, is not due to a lack of interest, but rather a lack of knowledge.  I don't know much about ancient history.  However, you sparked my interest and I found a site on the internet to read about this battle.  Thanks for the introduction of a new topic! 

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 Message 3 of 9 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nickname-TinCanSent: 8/25/2002 10:32 PM
        The battle was certainly a classic Greek victory. The Persians had arrived at Marathon Bay and found the Greeks under Miltiades blocking the road to Athens. The Persians had embarked troops from 600+ ships and neither side was eager to engage the other until a favorable advantage was gained.
        One of the Persian co-commanders tired of the stalemate and took a large number of troops and the better part of the cavlary south for a direct attack on Athens. Miltiades convinced the Greeks that their only hope was to quickly defeat the Persians here at Marathon then get back to Athens before the Persians could make their landing there.
        Miltiades attacked the Persian line rolling up the flanks toward the center. The Persians had no chioce but to fight their way back to their ships and in so doing were cut to  pieces. He then put the Greeks on a forced march back to Athens, first sending a runner ahead to tell the Athenians not to surrender to the Persians because they had won a great victory at Marathon,and met the Persians at the shore when they pulled into sight. About this time the Persian survivors of Marathon showed up and the Persians felt the only thing they could do was to return to Persia.
        The runner who brought the news of the Greek victory collasped and died, and Miltiades, who had brought the Greeks their great victory at Marathon, failed to recapture the islands that the Persians had won on their march to Athens and was imprisoned and died a few days later from wounds he had received in the attempt.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

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 Message 4 of 9 in Discussion 
From: sunnyboySent: 8/28/2002 5:00 PM
I will address this battle a little later when I have more time.  It will be alot of typing but is worth it.
 
 
 
 
sunny

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 Message 5 of 9 in Discussion 
From: sunnyboySent: 9/5/2002 6:36 PM
I will address this in the following order.  The problem, the run, the battle.
 
The problem.  The greeks were in a bind.  The Pursians had land a large force at the plains on Marathon with a secondary force still in their naval ships that were to sail around the tip of Greese and both groups were to attack Athens.  This would be a two prong attack one from the land and one from the sea both to converge on Athens.  The Greeks knew they were out numbered almost 5 to one.  What to do? Sit and defend the walls of Athens or take the fight to the enemy.  To sit and wait would mean the destruction of Athens.  To attack would mean leaving Athens undefended.  They deceided to attack.
 
The run- The Greeks need soliders.  Where best to get them?   Sparta.  The great Greek runner was dispatched to Sparta to bring help.  He set out on foot and covered a distance of 145-150 miles in two days.  The Spartans said they would help but they were in the middle of a religious celebrations and would come in at the end.  About 7 more days.  The Greek runner rested (this period on time I have not been able to pinpoint but it was not long) and ran another 145-150 miles to the out skits of Athens only to find out that the Greek army had left on a slow march to the Plains of Marathon.  The runner left Athens imeditly and ran to the Army at Marathon a distance of 24-25 miles.  He informed the Greek commander that the Spartains would not be coming in time.  This runner had covered over 325 miles in less than 6 days.
 
The battle- The Greeks martched out of Athens to meet the Pursian infantry and calvery at the plains of Marathon.  The Greeks knew that the infantry was on the beach at Marathon but could not account for the calvery.  The plains were a flat area with small mountains and forest to the north and the sea to the south.  The Greeks did a slow march to the plains chopping trees on their left flank to protect from the Pursian calvery.  In the Greek military all generals were the commander-in-chief for one day.  Each day a new commander was in charge.  Their best commander was Mitiades but his turn was going to fall well past the time of the battle.  All commanders voted to move  Miltiades time up to the day of the attack.  The greeks approached the Pursains in classic Greek Phalanx formation (a straight line).  But Miltades did something new and different.  He weaken the middle of his plalanx line.  The Pursains saw this weak spot and rushed  their infantry into this breach.  Miltiades then close his flanks around the Pursains thus trapping the Pursains into a ball type defense.  This meant that the Pursains troops in the middle of the ball had no one to fight and were worthless until the soliders in front of the died.  The Greeks killed over 5000 while losing a little over 100.  The Pursain Infantry was wiped out.  The Pursain calvery was never found and little is known as to whether it ever existed.  With the Pursain infantry defeated the news of the defeat had to be dispatched to Athens.  this was so that Athens did not surrender to the Pursain navy not knowing for the Marathon victory.  The runner, this is the only part of this runners run that is suspected to be myth there is no historical proff that this run took place, supposesly ran the 26 miles to Athens and cried "We conqured" and died.  But the Greek army did a force march back to Ahens form the Plains of Marathon in time to greet the Pursain Navy.  The Pursains withdrew.
 
 
 
Sunny

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 Message 6 of 9 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameAntirion1958Sent: 12/2/2003 7:03 PM
One further note on tactics.  The Persians relied heavily on archery, which could be devastating to close-packed ranks, even the relatively heavily-armored Hellene hoplites.  Miltiades advanced at a march until the first volley of Persian arrows flew.  He then ordered the phalanx forward at the run...  The first Persian volley overshot the narrow Hellene ranks (Miltiades had deliberately reduced the center of his phalanx from eight ranks to four), who literally ran underneath them   Before the Persians could ready an effective second volley, the Hellenes were too close to the Persian front ranks.  The archers in the rear could not depress the angle of shot without hitting their own men.  With the Persian archers neutralized, the rest was simple, methodical slaughter.  The narrower Hellene center bent, but didn't break, while the eight-ranked flanks pressed in until the Persians broke.

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 Message 7 of 9 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameaurinioSent: 1/14/2005 12:43 AM
Yes , it was a great military victory. A landmark in Ancient History , which help enhace the role of Athens among the Greek cities states.
 
In matter of fact, Marathon raise the military prestige of Athens. Athens, was able to prove herself not only as a sea power but as formidable adversary in land battles.
 
The Persian Empire , an centralized vast territorial domain, Far Superior to the Greek city states in Material , Economical Resources, Manpower was taken aback by this victory. 
 
It also proof , than even for such wealthy big power ,  the cost was very high to bear.
 
The hoplites infantry , role ascend in Military strategy , they were able to stand the great tactic of the Persians land forces. Including the calvary and the prestigious Persians archers who brought so many victories to the Persians.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

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 Message 8 of 9 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameREDNECKCASent: 1/14/2005 3:03 PM
One other factor, I think, is that the Greeks were one of the first, if not the very first that I know of, to fight in very tight, close disciplined ranks.  Order and reorder, march and countermarch, they stayed exactly in place, with the shields almost interlocked.  As far as I know it was the first mass use of disciplined troop movements.
 
Almost all of their opponents typically fought in masses of bunches, or clumps of groups.  Maybe a wavering line with the bravest in front and the others pushing the rear, huge gaps, none of them subject to any co-ordinate movement or control.  It was the way humans had fought for millenia. 
 
For a good example of how well that worked, take a look at Xenophon's 'March Up Country' where he brought 10,000 Greek disciplined mecenaries all the way through hostile country almost completely by the use of tightly controlled small unit tactics.  The opposing forces were all the typical unorganized bunches of armed men rushing at the Greeks and getting killed for their trouble.
 
REDNECKCA

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 Message 9 of 9 in Discussion 
From: race2threeSent: 2/18/2007 12:16 PM
The Battle of Marathon.   Truly a fight that had to be won.  I'm not going to get into the specifics of the battle here...just give some of my personal thoughts...it was many years ago when i was still  a kid that i first read about the spartans at thermopylae, and the athenians and plateans at  marathon...i have read the account of the persian wars countless times written by dozens of authors...it is the ancient writers who tell it best i think...what strikes me most...is the small number of hoplites that the greeks put in the field for most of the land battles of the persian wars...the battle of platea being an exception....you have 10,000 atenien hoplites a LARGE army for a greek city state to muster for one battle...and having sent the runner of to sparta to ask for help....they stand on the hill watching the beach...black with ships and men...and 250 or so plateans show up....all the men they could muster....show up to help the athenians fight a force 10 times their number...repayment of past help the athenians had given platea when she was menaced by stronger neighbors...from that time onwards whenever the athenians gathered publicly to participate in the politcis of the city....when the sacrifices were made, and the blessings of the gods were asked to be with them...the athenians always included the plateans in their public prayers.  Althoiugh I realize now with greater, and more careful study and reading, that the spartans weren't as anxious to help the athenians as I had thought them when i first read the story as a child....It is still, even with the delay for the religous festival, remarkably swiftly that the spartans arrived at athens after setting out from lacadomanea...and having arrived....probably thinking to find the athenien hoiplites dead...and the city sacked (not a totally bad situation from the spartan point of view)
marching up to marathon to view the battlefield...(perhaps they weren't so much interested in "seeiing the medes" as much as seeing just how tough a fight, and how great a victory the athenians had actually won)upon seeing the thousands of dead persians, and the freshly made mound covering the 192 athenien dead...the spartans saw the proof of the athenien valor...'...the spartans departed for home, congratulating the ateniens for the work they had done'.....no doubt the spartans were thinking too....about the inevitable clash between themselves and the athenians that was sure to come...if the athenians were able to beat off the persian conquest of attica.  later in the war...the assembled greek armies were gathered...and there was a disagreement between the tegeans, and the athenians about where they were to be positioned relative to the spartan contingent....the tegeans said to the spartans....'we have fought each other many times...you know our valor...you know us to be men who fight as well as any' the spartans nodded their heads and gave a murmuir of agreement....then the athenians made their case citing their ancient history...their many tales of glory...from troy onwards...but they said...'even if we had done nothing...until the fight at marathon...that battle gives us the right to stand in the place of honor in the battle....'the spartans agreed, and the tegeans had to give way....but the spartans in an unprecedented gesture...combined the tegean contingent with their own....i read most of the above in heodotus' account of the persian wars...for those of you who have not read herodotus...find it....read it...even his naive conclusions about the geographical, and natural makeup of his world...let alone the world that remains the same for us today...(the source of the nile...the size of the world...etc)are a pleasure to read....the account of Xerxes, just after the battle of thermopylae, calling Demaratus (a former spartan king) into his presence to ask him who the hell those guys were...  "Demaratus, you are a worthy man, your true-speaking proves it.  All has happended as you forewarned me.  Now, then, tell me, how many Lacadaaemonians are there left, and of those left how many are such brave warriors as these? Or, are they all alike?"  "Oh King, replied the other, "the whole number of the  Lacedaemonians is very great, and many are the cities which they inhabit.  But I will tell you what you really wish to learn.  There is a town in Lacedaemon called Sparta, which contains within it 8,000 full-grown men.  They are, one and all, equal to those who have fought here.  The other Lacedaemonians are brave men, but not such warriors as these."
Another memorable scene...following the battle of platea, the final persian defeat, where maridonius was killed and the persian army put to flight, for good...the spartans came into the persian canp and were standing inside the tent of maradoinius...they couldn't believe the luxury...the asked his servants to prepare a dinnner as they would have for maradonius...and upon seeing the feast the cooks put on the table...they had their own aides prepare a spartan supper...comparing the two...a spartan said 'see the penury the persians came to rob from us' I have always found that remark very profound...in the manner only a spartan could convey, with a simple sentence the waste of lives, treasure, the horrors of war, were nothing compared with the will of the king of kings, who ruled all with a word...his army driven by whips to advance to the slaughter, hundreds of thousands of lpeople, who missed home, missed wives and children, mothers and fathers, the terrible price paid by the people who lived in the nations darius and xerxes had to cross to get to greece, bankrupted, everything eaten, as if a plague of locusts had visted....
it is our great fortune to this day that it was the freedom loving greeks which formed the shield wall, which the hordes of unwilling, unmotivated, "myriads" as herodotus calls them persian troops broke against like a wave on the rocks...and the long spears which drove them back in a scattered mob...only a few thousand out of the hundreds of thousands which had crossed from asia to conquer greece for the great king.
I believe that the battle of marathon was the opening of a war which lasted for centuries...although the combatant nations, cities, armies, couldn't have seen, or known it at the time, looking at the whole in the pages of history, the pattern is more clear...much like the two world wars were in fact two parts of one war..the battle of marathon pitting greek against persian, opened the great conflict between east and west...the ancient empires of assyria babylonia persia, and egypt...with their god kings..their priests, and their nobles...the temple and the palace....where the great mass of people counted for nothing except their labors....the most they could hope for was to go unoticed, and love their wives and children, tend to their daily sustenance...brutal, short lives..for the most part...father following son, living under the rule of an (at best merely distant)king who's very word was law...in their hundreds of thousands the king of kings threw them at the hoplite formations...men who came from a different world...a world with many flaws true...slavery....poverty...injustice...the rights of freeman/citizen were for the minority...but they were also the ones who donned their armor and stood in the ranks and fought for their homes, and their way of life...each man in the rows and columns worth while in and of himself...each free to think, to chose, to be, whatever he wished in the world he lived in at the time. from marathon, and the greeks and persians, the war carried on the romans, fought the phonecian cartheginians, with their worship of baal, who demanded the sacrifice of children when the times were dire...the cartheginean general, leading his largely mercenary army either was victorious, or was crucified for failure....the great general hannibal....who molded an army second to none of ancient times...was deserted and betrayed by his government...he could not be beaten in battle...but the cartheginians despite having the greatest general of all time leading  their mercenary soldiers...did not have the strength of character to defeat  a nation like rome, who fielded amature geneals,  yet led citizen/soldiers who had the duty and the desire to fight for their country, their farms, and their republic...they were simply the best soldiers on the planet.  shortly after defeating the carrtheginians, the romans fought a series of wars with the "successor kingdoms" macedon, (phillip V of macedon had turned the "leadership" of macedon into a tyranny over greece)  the selucid empire, pontus, etc....and finally with the battle of actium and the defeat of egypt's cleopatra with her designs to use roman steel to create a new egyptian empire (don't get me wrong...i admire cleopatra very much)the battles of the great war between the ancient powers of the eastern god/king empires and the western love of personal and collective freedoms (again...not for the majority it's true)comes to a close.  In england in the middle ages...the king would send out people to judge local grievences...where we get our "circuit court"...the man was answerable to the king for his just and correct decisions according to the laws of the land....compare this ith the chair that Darius had upohlstered with the skin of the judege he found to be taking bribes to give out favorable decisions....Darius WAS the law of the land.  there were (and are) kings and queens in the west...but even they were not above the law.  King John, and certainly King Charles I found that out to their detriment. 

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