MSN Home  |  My MSN  |  Hotmail
Sign in to Windows Live ID Web Search:   
go to MSNGroups 
Free Forum Hosting
 
Important Announcement Important Announcement
The MSN Groups service will close in February 2009. You can move your group to Multiply, MSN’s partner for online groups. Learn More
The History Page[email protected] 
  
What's New
  
  Message Boards  
  For New Members  
  On This Day....  
  General  
  American History  
  Ancient History  
  British History  
  Current Events  
  European History  
  The Civil War  
  War  
  World History  
  Pictures  
    
    
  Links  
  Militaria Board  
  Cars/Motorcycles  
  
  
  Tools  
 
Ancient History : Oldest City???
Choose another message board
 
     
Reply
 Message 1 of 27 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameNormalParanoia  (Original Message)Sent: 10/5/2006 6:57 PM
Could this possibly be the oldest found city to date?
 
 
9,500-Year-Old City Found
Underwater Off India

Discovery in Bay of Cambay Will Force
Western Archaeologists to Rewrite History

4500-year-old Harappan The civilization of Ancient Egypt occurred in a past so remote that today it seems mystical. The pyramids and other temples, with their hieroglyphics depicting a flourishing civilization, have a mysterious, almost magical appeal. It seems inconceivable that people of an advanced society could have walked those ancient streets.

Now, it was announced in January, a civilization has been uncovered that would have appeared just as ancient to the people who built the pyramids as the pyramids seem to us.

According to marine scientists in India, archaeological remains of this lost city have been discovered 36 metres (120 feet) underwater in the Gulf of Cambay off the western coast of India. And carbon dating says that they are 9,500 years old.

This news completely contradicts the position of most Western historians and archaeologists, who (because it did not fit their theories) have always rejected, ignored, or suppressed evidence of an older view of mankind's existence on planet Earth. Human civilization is now provably much more ancient than many have believed.

According to the BBC's Tom Housden, reporting on the Cambay find:

The vast city �?which is five miles long and two miles wide �?is believed to predate the oldest known remains in the subcontinent by more than 5,000 years. The site was discovered by chance last year by oceanographers from India's National Institute of Ocean Technology, who were conducting a survey of pollution. Using sidescan sonar, which sends a beam of sound waves down to the bottom of the ocean, they identified huge geometrical structures at a depth of 120 feet. Debris recovered from the site �?including construction material, pottery, sections of walls, beads, sculpture, and human bones and teeth �?has been carbon dated and found to be nearly 9,500 years old (BBC article).
map showing site Several reports confirm this estimate. Housden added, "The whole model of the origins of civilisation will have to be remade from scratch."

Unheard-of Scope of Cambay Ruins

The BBC article tells us that the remains of this ancient city stand upon "enormous foundations." Marine archaeologists discovered them with a technology known as "sub-bottom profiling."

Author and filmmaker Graham Hancock, an authority on archaeological investigations of ancient civilizations, reportedly said that the evidence was compelling. For example, he said that the oceanographers had found two large blocks that were larger than anything that's ever been found. "Cities on this scale," Hancock told BBC Online, "are not known in the archaeological record until roughly 4,500 years ago when the first big cities begin to appear in Mesopotamia.

Theorists are postulating that the area where this city exists was submerged when the ice caps melted at the end of the last Ice Age.

"A month ago in mid-January [2002]," says Hancock on his website, "marine scientists in India announced they had sonar images of square and rectangular shapes about 130 feet down off the northwestern coast of India in the Gulf of Khambhat (Cambay). . . . [There are] sonar shapes with 90-degree angles. The Indian Minister of Science and Technology ordered that the site be dredged. What was found has surprised archaeologists around the world" (GrahamHancock.com/news.)

The Find Includes Human Remains

Linda Moulton Howe, who investigates occurrences of this type worldwide, interviewed Michael Cremo about this new discovery. Cremo is a researcher and author of the book Forbidden Archaeology. Cremo, Howe said, has visited India and attended local meetings about the Cambay site.

"Within the past few months," Cremo told her, "the engineers began some dredging operations there and they pulled up human fossil bones, fossil wood, stone tools, pieces of pottery, and many other things that indicated that it indeed was a human habitation site that they had. And they were able to do more intensive sonar work there and were able to identify more structures. They appeared to have been laid out on the bank of a river that had been flowing from the Indian subcontinent out into that area."

According to Howe:

Even if we don't know what the cultural background of the people is, if it does happen to be a city that is 9500 years old, that is older than the Sumerian civilization by several thousand years. It is older than the Egyptian, older than the Chinese. So it would radically affect our whole picture of the development of urban civilization on this planet.

Now, if it further happens that additional research is able to identify the culture of the people who lived in that city that's now underwater �?if it turns out they are a Vedic people, which I think is quite probable given the location of this off the coast of India �?I think that would radically change the whole picture of Indian history which has basically been written by Western archaeologists.


First  Previous  13-27 of 27  Next  Last 
Reply
 Message 13 of 27 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameREDNECKCASent: 12/28/2006 2:18 AM
To me, several of the things the 'alternative' discoverers shout about are natural, not ancient temples, cities, or pryamids.

How can you say that, one may ask?

Well, after I graced the Army with my presence for some years, I got a degree in Geologic Engineering and spent 25 years working in mining and mineral exploration. I can look at the photos of Bimimi Road and the Yanaguli formations and see nothing but natural formations. In addition, and probably more important, if those were built by humans, there would human debris around, chisel marks, broken tools, etc. There is none at those two sites.

That doesn't mean that some of those loony tunes won't find something spectacular. After all, they are out looking while I sit home drinking a Latte.

REDNECKCA of the rusty rock hammer

Reply
 Message 14 of 27 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameCatfishKingdomSent: 12/30/2006 10:23 PM
redneck... a side bar here....I used to live in Monterey, have family there. worked at the Police dept for a few years......am a book fanatic as well......
used to browse the used books stores in the area.
 
small world eh?

Reply
 Message 15 of 27 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknamePhdSeussSent: 12/31/2006 9:10 PM
now this is what i call history...especially when found in a country like this....

Reply
 Message 16 of 27 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameCatfishKingdomSent: 1/1/2007 2:11 AM
Another aspect of older civilizations
 
 
http://www.classbrain.com/artaskcb/publish/article_119.shtml

This has long been a subject of much debate and to this day, no one is absolutely sure which is the oldest civilization. This is mostly because people cannot agree on the definition of the word "civilization". The most common definition of civilization is “an advanced state of development in human society, marked by progress in the arts and sciences, the extensive use of writing, and complex political and social institutions.�?Essentially, Mesopotamia is the most decided upon answer to your question, based on archeological evidence and the above definition.
 
14.11.2005

http://www.humanities-interactive.org/ancient/bronze/brochure_bronze_age.htmEssay by Dr. Emily Sano<o:p></o:p>

China today is one of the largest countries in the world, possessing one quarter of the world's population. It also possesses the world's oldest living civilization. For centuries, however, ancient Chinese civilization has been known only through written records. Now modern archaeology is revealing the secrets of this ancient world through dramatic discoveries of bronzes and other treasures from the past.

San Juan (  Puerto Rico) is a spirited modern city with high-rise beach strips and a justly famous colonial core. Founded in the 16th century, it's the second-oldest city in the Americas; today it's the engine of the island's economic and political life and the cultural beachhead for US influence in the Caribbean.
 
Sydney is Australia's oldest city,
]
Varanasi, India is believed to be one of the oldest continually inhabited cities in the world since time immemorial. It is contemporaneous with Sumer[1]. The name Kashi is mentioned in the Rig-Veda. [2] It is also referred to as "city of temples and learning".[3]This name seems to have been corrupted, in medieval times to Banaras, which was in use till May 24, 1956 when it was changed to Varanasi, by an order of the Government of India.
 

St. Augustine Fla is America's Oldest City


Reply
 Message 17 of 27 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameREDNECKCASent: 1/1/2007 2:27 AM
St. Augustine Fla is America's Oldest City
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well, if Indians count, Acoma Pueblo has been continuosly occupied since around 1200 CA

And if you talk size , several Pueblos were much bigger than St. Augustine at its founding.
.

REDNECKCA

Reply
 Message 18 of 27 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameMarkGB5Sent: 2/1/2007 7:09 PM
1200, a mere 800 years ! Flash's outdoor privy is older than that !

Reply
 Message 19 of 27 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFlashman8Sent: 2/1/2007 7:55 PM
Mark
Are you describing the new Privy? The one still awaiting planning permission?

Reply
 Message 20 of 27 in Discussion 
From: race2threeSent: 2/18/2007 10:16 AM
Very nice article.  Thank you.  Nice pics too.  I have one question...why would it "force" WESTERN archaeoligists to rewrite history?  Seems to me that any archaeologist, historian, etc...would be more than happy to investigate, learn, and write about a new find as extrraordinary as this one....east, west, left, right, what/whichever...all history belongs to all of us....

Reply
 Message 21 of 27 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameOwlatnight8880Sent: 9/20/2007 9:31 AM
I thought that Mohenjo-Daro was the oldest in India?

Reply
 Message 22 of 27 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameLewWetzel1Sent: 9/20/2007 3:59 PM
Every time some one finds another city/town/camp site History has to be rewritten and Eastern Archaeologists/Historians gloat because Western Archaeologists ?Historians have been proven wrong, and will have to rewrite their books.   Unless, of course, the new find is in the West then it is the Western Archaeologists etc. who gloat that the Easterners have been proven wrong and have to rewrite THEIR books.   
In any case, this is great news and I hope Normal keeps us abreast of the situation.

Reply
 Message 23 of 27 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknamesunnyboyreturnsSent: 9/21/2007 5:06 PM
What does it mean to be civilized??
 
 
 
sunny

Reply
 Message 24 of 27 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameLewWetzel1Sent: 9/21/2007 5:47 PM
It means that you have, willingly or otherwise, given up your individuality for the safety of the herd.

Reply
 Message 25 of 27 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFlashman8Sent: 9/21/2007 5:53 PM
I wouldn't trust any Indian claim. They are a begging bowl nation (able to afford SU29 fighters and T90-whatever tanks as long as the right families have the manufacturing licence rights) and their natural disasters are always the most spectacular.
 
"Hey! It;'s Bihar province's turn this week" - "No, they had the big one in 1968, what about the Punjab?" "Wait, cousin Pradesh Singh hasn't got the men in place to steal the US rice yet"
 
And I'm sure their archaeological finds are no more honest.

Reply
 Message 26 of 27 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameOwlatnight8880Sent: 9/27/2007 8:12 AM
the dept. of homeland security.

Reply
 Message 27 of 27 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameLewWetzel1Sent: 9/27/2007 2:52 PM
Owl, the Dept. of Homeland Security ?

First  Previous  13-27 of 27  Next  Last 
Return to Ancient History