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British History : The English Lowbow
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 Message 1 of 60 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameCurliestJimbert  (Original Message)Sent: 3/29/2006 10:03 AM
You may notice a bold, italic paragraph. I did this for it is a similar arguement for the pro gun lobby in America. Substitute Henry for Charlton and England for America.
Jimbert
 
The longbow was used largely in northern Europe. Though there is evidence that longbows may have been in use in Southwest Scotland as early as 2000 BC
The longbow was introduced to the British Isles by the Vikings, who used it to trounce the Welsh circa 600 AD But the Welsh learned an important lesson from their beating. They, in turn, took up the use of the longbow circa 633 AD.
The Welsh were the first people on the British Isles to have and use longbows. The Welsh became experts in the use of the longbow, and used the longbow very effectively in battles against the invading English. The Welsh repelled Ralph, Earl of Hereford in 1055 using the longbow. There is a story about Welsh longbowmen penetrating a four inch thick, solid oak door with their arrows at the siege of Abergavenny Castle.
Like the Welsh, the English learned an important lesson by fighting against the longbow. That lesson being that the longbow is a formidable weapon when used correctly. With the eventual defeat of the Welsh, and 'alliance' of the English and Welsh, the English employed Welsh longbowmen in its own army. During this time, the English began a campaign to train their own longbowmen as well.
It can be arguably though firmly stated that it is the use of the longbow that allowed England to gain as much power in Europe as she did. While severely outnumbered by various enemies (and often being attacked by more than one enemy at time), the longbow proved so lethal a weapon that the English forces incurred few casualties. One hates to speak in the gory language of kill ratios, but the English (longbowmen) regularly killed hundreds (and possibly as high as a thousand or more) of foemen for each archer killed.
It should be stated that once the power of the English archer army was known (i.e. after the Battle of Crecy in 1346), English longbowmen had very good reasons for fighting hard. If an archer was captured and recognized as an archer, his draw fingers were cut off before he could be ransomed.
English longbowmen were well acquainted with shooting hard in the bow though.
 
For long periods of time, the English people were subject to numerous laws promoting the use of the longbow. There were often laws concerning the compulsory ownership of longbows for people in certain wage categories. Under the reign of King Henry II, everyone who earned 2-5 pounds per year had to be armed with bows (Assize of Arms, 1242 AD). It was mandatory to practice in the bow on Sundays for many English citizens. Churches were required to maintain butts (targets) so that anyone could practice in the bow. There were even rules about the distance one must shoot at the butts from. Keep in mind that these laws were not intended for professional soldiers, for there were very few in those days. (Professional soldiers were mercenaries, not members of a standing army.) These laws were intended for the average citizen, who might be called upon at some point to fight for England. (This is the case for the whole spectrum of soldiery in the Middle Ages.)
 
These rules were quite necessary from a military standpoint. The longbow requires a great deal of practice in order to remain proficient in its use. The ability to loose arrows accurately with a long cast is easily lost without constant practice. The strength of England relied heavily upon the sense that the longbow was their weapon, as a point of national pride. Practice helped instill that sense of pride.
Throughout the high period of the English archer army, it was a national effort not only to supply good archers for campaigns, but also to supply the archers with the equipment they required. In 1359, the Tower of London received 20,000 bows, 850,000 arrows, and 50,000 bowstrings from counties. In May and June of 1360 alone, the Tower of London received 10,000 bows and 500,000 arrows. English trade agreements with other countries (such as Spain) often required the shipment of yew staves and other important archery supplies for the production of longbows.
The national effort proved highly useful. Prince Louis Napoleon said 'a first rate English archer who, in a single minute, was unable to draw and discharge his bow 12 times with a range of 240 yards and who in these 12 shots once missed his man, was very lightly esteemed." It is impossible to say whether this is an anecdotal statement or not, but there is surely some truth to it.
At any rate, the skill of the English archer army certainly took the French by surprise at the Battle of Crecy in 1346. Crecy was the unveiling of the English longbowmen to continental Europe. There were perhaps intimations of the power of the English archer army, but any suspicions or doubts were allayed at Crecy. In this, the first major test of the English longbowmen (including the Welsh longbowmen in the English army), the English inflicted great losses on the French.
It didn't take long for the English longbowmen to get a second chance to prove themselves. Two months after the Battle of Crecy, longbowmen were crucial in the defeat of the Scottish invasion army lead by King David Bruce. The English had been fighting against the Scots for some time, and indeed the longbow had proved pivotal in a battle against the Scots more than 200 years before Crecy. But now the French and the Scottish were working together to defeat the English. In the face of battles on numerous fronts, from large forces, the English were able to do better than just hold their own.
During the battles against the Scottish, and in the battles of the 100 Years War against the French, the English were able to further modify their tactics to increase their effectiveness. The French were hard pressed to exploit the weaknesses of archer armies (and there are certainly weaknesses to be exploited). The French were so bound to tradition and chivalry, that they were unable to adapt to warfare against the English archer army. There was apparently an attempt by the French to counter the English longbowmen with their own longbowmen though. Some 10 or so years after Crecy, (after another major French defeat at Poitiers) Jean Juvenal des Ursins wrote, "In short time the French archers became so expert in the use of the bow, that they could shoot with a surer aim than the English. Indeed, if these archers had formed a close confederacy among themselves they might have become more powerful than the Princes and nobles of France. It was fear of just such an outcome that made the French king suppress the archer army." The Scots were better able to adapt to the English archer army, and even employed their own longbow men against the English.
In the high period of the longbow, there was only one group of people who were able to consistently defeat the English longbow men. Using highly flexed composite bows, and shooting from horseback, the Saracens encountered during the Crusades were able to trounce the English archer army. The Saracen archers were far too quick and mobile for the English archer army.
Of course, the longbow did eventually see a decline of the longbow. By the end of the 16th. century, the number of archers employed by the English was greatly reduced. This reduction was due in part to improvements in armour and the development of black powder weapons. In addition, hundreds of years of war eventually wearied the English spirit.
 


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The number of members that recommended this message. 0 recommendations  Message 46 of 60 in Discussion 
Sent: 4/12/2007 1:28 PM
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 Message 47 of 60 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameMarkGB5Sent: 4/12/2007 6:52 PM
It wasn't just the French we massacred with the longbow, the Scots were on the receiving end a few times. Most notably at the battles of Halidon Hill 1333 and Homildon Hill 1402.

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 Message 48 of 60 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFlashman8Sent: 4/12/2007 7:08 PM
I'm not saying the Longbow wasn't a good weapon.
I mean, if you want to go into Mongol cavalry and foot soldier recurved compound bows, and Ming Dynasty seige bows (1600m range, supersonic), Sir Ralph Payne Galwey will be pleased to oblige. He's actually fired all these.
I'm saying the Long Bow needed too much training to suit me.
So there.
.

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 Message 49 of 60 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFlashman8Sent: 4/12/2007 7:17 PM
Mark,
 
began the ascent up Halidon Hill. Having lost all momentum they moved slowly upwards, so tightly packed that even the most indifferent archer could scarcely fail to hit his target. The fire was so intense that many turned their faces away as if walking into a storm of sleet. The Lanercost Chronicle reports; ...the Scots who marched in the front were so wounded in the face and blinded by the multitude of English arrows that they could not help themselves, and soon began to turn their faces away from the blows of the arrows and fall. Casualties were heavy, with some of the finest troops falling dead or
 
Exactly the same rapid-fire conditions as Crecy. There was a defence, the pavise, a huge kite shaped shield behind which foot soldiers could crouch, and advance. You stuck the tip into the ground. The Archers could use them too. Difference is, a crossbow quarrel could slam through one and kill the archer the other side.
 
I mean Berwick is such an a*seh*le town, who wants it anyway?

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 Message 50 of 60 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameMarkGB5Sent: 4/12/2007 7:35 PM
I like Berwick. I think I'm correct in saying that it's the only town in GB with a complete Medieval wall encicling the old town. Londonderry has a similar wall but it's from the early 17th century. I've walked around both.

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 Message 51 of 60 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFlashman8Sent: 4/12/2007 7:56 PM
Nearest I've been to it is the A1 Berwick bypass.
"Dual Carriageway!" they told us.
Huh! A few overtaking spots and speed cameras. on them It's the dreariest 100 miles you can drive, Hawick (pron Hoik!) to Edinburgh. Take your hat off, my father was born near Haydon Bridge 2 miles from Hexham which is near Homildon Hill the     second of the 2 battles you list.
 
Shows the pecularity of the Scots Border, Gretna is only 6 miles from Carlisle, yet Berwick is 50 from Newcastle, yet Carlisle and Newcastle are East-West. That's because the border is Solway Firth-Tweed.
 

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 Message 52 of 60 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameMarkGB5Sent: 4/12/2007 8:28 PM
Going back 1000 years or so Hadrian's Wall was the border with the Scots claiming modern Northumbria and Cumbria. But as the English grew in power they pushed the border northwards. Cumbria was the last to fall under English control in the 1090s, although it was fought over and the border fluctuated for another 50 years. On the other coast Berwick was not finally and conclusively held by the English until 1482.  

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 Message 53 of 60 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nickname--sundaySent: 4/12/2007 10:23 PM
Excellent and informative post your #46, Flashman.
 
Battle of Crecy:  Were cannon used in that battle along with the longbow?
 
sunday

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 Message 54 of 60 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFlashman8Sent: 4/12/2007 11:25 PM
'Et li Angles descliqu'erent aucuns canons qu'il avaient en la bataille pour esbahir les Genevois'
 
"And the English ?? (I assume it means spread, placed) certain cannnon during (in) the battle to (?? Scare the pants off) the Genevans.
 
Genevans were prominent crossbowmen. Sorry Old French ain't my forte. Cannon were "Ratio Ultima regum" " The last argument of Kings" (Note exquisite use of genetive, flogged into moi for 10 years) and kings had parks with new cannon laid into them, for prestige.
 
Great to be able to leap around yelling "Hoboy, hotsh*t, King Edward am a mighty fine guy!!" but to take these cannion out meant expenditure. horse trains, mercenaries ((mainly Italian), and these were peculiar guys, prayed to St Barbara between each shot, and never looted or raped. To be viewed with suspicion.

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The number of members that recommended this message. 0 recommendations  Message 55 of 60 in Discussion 
Sent: 4/12/2007 11:48 PM
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 Message 56 of 60 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameMarkGB5Sent: 4/13/2007 7:17 PM
Crecy was the first battle in which the English used artillery. The first recorded use in Europe was at the siege if Cividale in Italy 15 years earlier in 1331.

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The number of members that recommended this message. 0 recommendations  Message 57 of 60 in Discussion 
Sent: 4/14/2007 3:42 PM
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 Message 58 of 60 in Discussion 
From: YgraineSent: 4/15/2007 9:51 PM
OOO! thanks for all the wonderful info. and the photos.
 
 I also solved the Harlequine vs. The Archer's Tale mystery. Cornwell released the same book under two different titles - The Archer's Tale being for our American audience.

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 Message 59 of 60 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFlashman8Sent: 4/18/2007 10:01 PM
In the UK you cannot copyright a title. Was that the problem in the USA with harlequin? Re-namimg it "the Archer's tale is odd," 'cos you'd think like Chaucer you'd have , say, "The Leader's Tale" etc as the other titles.
 
Good books though.

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 Message 60 of 60 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFlashman8Sent: 4/24/2007 10:47 PM
 
I have just learned to downsize pics, so have a crannequin loaded Arbalest to leer at

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